Jump to content

Photo

Bounty Board Favors the PvPers -- here are some fixes


  • Please log in to reply
89 replies to this topic

#21 Anemie

Anemie

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 633 posts

Posted 19 September 2011 - 19:47

Nope -- not making it up -- have experienced it first hand. PvP rating is important for the ladder; Prestige a result of successful PvP hits -- both part of the game. Not sure that a PvPer on the ladder will come at you again if you were successful in taking away their PvP rating -- some would, some wouldn't. However, if you were an "easy" mark the first time, maybe they would think twice next time around. Same goes for Prestige.

And no, don't think PvPers have is "easy", but I do think they have, in many cases, a great advantage over those they pursue.

Honestly,it wouldn't stop me...I'd probably go on and hit you few more times-
If you would take 5 per every hit-well I would think twice before hitting again...

#22 morderme

morderme

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts

Posted 19 September 2011 - 19:50


So, the comments are a good start -- let's hear what counter-measures you're thinking of that could help the PvP target -- something beyond, and more creative, than suggesting a de-leveling party. Sure, the occaisional PvPer gets bountied and that solves the problem. However, just read the BIO of the "seasoned" PvPer -- they pretty much state that de-leveling doesn't bother them.


If you can't beat a system, just join it! If you think PvP'ers have an easier life and all the advantages in this game then become a PvP'er. Simple. :lol:


Nope, don't thisnk PvPers have it easy -- but they sure do, on average, have a great advantage. Just trying to suggest some options to bring some balance back into the game for the non-PvPers.

#23 fs_musjacom

fs_musjacom
  • Guests

Posted 19 September 2011 - 20:14

1.) One response was: just hit them back! Well certainly – if you have the gear set with stats that are competitive, but that is often NOT the case. So, I am sure, the BB was born.


I am alone. My main setup is 5 (and below) lvl items (only one item is hell forged). I did about 500+ attacks on players in 26-36 lvl range in last few days. I was bountied 5 times, one player was unhappy about few 10 stamina attacks and bountied me 3 times, so I did 10+ x 100 stamina attacks on her after that. The player's guild has 54 members, but nobody helped her, nobody from that guild has taken my bounty and deleveled the player in 5 lvl gear. Can it be more pathetic? Stop looking for excuses. Selfishness is the only reason.

#24 morderme

morderme

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts

Posted 19 September 2011 - 20:34

Well duh...of course it favors the PvPers - you do have to PvP to BH.....I propose taking 5 fix...it works wonders..a friend who did it once told me it really detours those filthy thieves



HaHa! Love the straight-forwardness!

#25 morderme

morderme

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts

Posted 19 September 2011 - 20:39


1.) One response was: just hit them back! Well certainly – if you have the gear set with stats that are competitive, but that is often NOT the case. So, I am sure, the BB was born.


I am alone. My main setup is 5 (and below) lvl items (only one item is hell forged). I did about 500+ attacks on players in 26-36 lvl range in last few days. I was bountied 5 times, one player was unhappy about few 10 stamina attacks and bountied me 3 times, so I did 10+ x 100 stamina attacks on her after that. The player's guild has 54 members, but nobody helped her, nobody from that guild has taken my bounty and deleveled the player in 5 lvl gear. Can it be more pathetic? Stop looking for excuses. Selfishness is the only reason.


Quite incredible...didn't expect the responses received so far. Look, I don't get hit that often and throw up a quick bounty when it does happen, so I am not complaining, but just "reporting" what I see. But I can also see where those that like the game, but don't have the means necessarily to keep up with the top of the line items, get pounded...just looking for some more options on the BB to help many of those players.

#26 sweetlou

sweetlou

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,955 posts

Posted 19 September 2011 - 20:57

Look, a fact of life and my experience with PvPers:

1.) I have been asked for 100 stam hits by PvPers so they can stay below a level, and/or be reduced several levels. This has been especially true when clearing bounties.
2.) Read enough PvPer BIOs and a common boast is (or has been) “they are not afraid to lose levels”.
3.) Again, look at PvPers gear sets – often times more, much more than 5 levels below the VL for that player.

Yes, the BB is there as “retribution”, but it is not sufficient and has not kept up with changes to the game. Nothing against PvPers (not too much, anyway), except that non-PvPers need a better and more effective set of options to hit back on PvPers.

1.) Just attempting to hit back on a PvPer risks a bounty itself.
2.) Many times, the PvPer has far superior gear, so that placing a bounty for a de-leveling party may not be as effective as believed (if your friends cannot hit the player either). Yes, get better friends, blah, blah, blah… Therefore, higher level players hitting the bounty target only serve to help clear the bounty, not reduce PvP Rating – that’s a fact. No big deal to the PvPer.
3.) PvPers who do it for the prestige…pretty much the same thing applies as the second item above, so why not have bounty options to address that as well…

And, regardless of the suggested bounty options, the PvP target still has to pay out to “hit back” – a double whammy on the pocket-book. That is, first time, loss of XP and $$$; second time, pay out $$$ to place the bounty – either as the system exists or with any improvements.

So, what would you suggest to improve the BB?

I'm trying to hit home for you that you are going about it all wrong, under your proposal AND the current system. Take my advice or not. Keep trying to convince the devs something on the BB needs to be changed. It doesn't! It is simply effective. You want to complicate things.

You complain repeatedly about players who have superior gear(for PvP I assume). Yes actively PvPing in today's game gives great advantages to those that have spent more, especially on gear. Stick to Legendary and SE gear using the newer upper level buffs.

You mention friends/guildmates like you want to dismiss their importance("blah, blah blah" you wrote). They are of the utmost importance!!!

If you want to play in a bubble, use PvP protection. It's expensive and should be for what you get. However it is much cheaper in the long run to equip a few players(4-5) as enforcers in your guild with a few basic sets to delevel a player who attacks you, offends you, whatever the reason. They might get beaten up a bit at first learning what they are doing but eventually they will EARN the respect of other players. Don't limit yourselves to the number of enforcers who are willing. The more the merrier.

Most importantly, far too many players only care about xp. They are selfish playing. This is a team game! Once you start putting others you have banded together with in what is called a Guild ahead of yourself the less you will be occupied with players attacking you.

Instead of trying to change something that isn't broken try learning how to play the game the way it is designed. Thank you.

Now insert excuses here:
1)______
2)______
3)______
4)______
etc.

[Signature removed]

 

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#27 pygmypi

pygmypi

    New Member

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:12

I'd think that it would be best if there was a limit to how many bounties a person could take, let's say two was enough. It could also tell who accepted the bounty for the person and how many kills they have delivered. Or maybe if a person fails an attack, it will count towards a bounty attempt, with ten being the maximum number of tries to kill a person, and if a person misses very often, that person would be refunded their bounty tickets (I cannot choose what percentage will be (definitely not 100%). I also believe that there should be a maximum number of people attacking a specific bountied person.

#28 morderme

morderme

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:18

Look, a fact of life and my experience with PvPers:

1.) I have been asked for 100 stam hits by PvPers so they can stay below a level, and/or be reduced several levels. This has been especially true when clearing bounties.
2.) Read enough PvPer BIOs and a common boast is (or has been) “they are not afraid to lose levels”.
3.) Again, look at PvPers gear sets – often times more, much more than 5 levels below the VL for that player.

Yes, the BB is there as “retribution”, but it is not sufficient and has not kept up with changes to the game. Nothing against PvPers (not too much, anyway), except that non-PvPers need a better and more effective set of options to hit back on PvPers.

1.) Just attempting to hit back on a PvPer risks a bounty itself.
2.) Many times, the PvPer has far superior gear, so that placing a bounty for a de-leveling party may not be as effective as believed (if your friends cannot hit the player either). Yes, get better friends, blah, blah, blah… Therefore, higher level players hitting the bounty target only serve to help clear the bounty, not reduce PvP Rating – that’s a fact. No big deal to the PvPer.
3.) PvPers who do it for the prestige…pretty much the same thing applies as the second item above, so why not have bounty options to address that as well…

And, regardless of the suggested bounty options, the PvP target still has to pay out to “hit back” – a double whammy on the pocket-book. That is, first time, loss of XP and $$$; second time, pay out $$$ to place the bounty – either as the system exists or with any improvements.

So, what would you suggest to improve the BB?

I'm trying to hit home for you that you are going about it all wrong, under your proposal AND the current system. Take my advice or not. Keep trying to convince the devs something on the BB needs to be changed. It doesn't! It is simply effective. You want to complicate things.

You complain repeatedly about players who have superior gear(for PvP I assume). Yes actively PvPing in today's game gives great advantages to those that have spent more, especially on gear. Stick to Legendary and SE gear using the newer upper level buffs.

You mention friends/guildmates like you want to dismiss their importance("blah, blah blah" you wrote). They are of the utmost importance!!!

If you want to play in a bubble, use PvP protection. It's expensive and should be for what you get. However it is much cheaper in the long run to equip a few players(4-5) as enforcers in your guild with a few basic sets to delevel a player who attacks you, offends you, whatever the reason. They might get beaten up a bit at first learning what they are doing but eventually they will EARN the respect of other players. Don't limit yourselves to the number of enforcers who are willing. The more the merrier.

Most importantly, far too many players only care about xp. They are selfish playing. This is a team game! Once you start putting others you have banded together with in what is called a Guild ahead of yourself the less you will be occupied with players attacking you.

Instead of trying to change something that isn't broken try learning how to play the game the way it is designed. Thank you.

Now insert excuses here:
1)______
2)______
3)______
4)______
etc.


Too bad you sound upset, and quite frankly I am not making excuses for anyone. Most rants in response to my suggestions run right past the fact that the nonPvPer has few choices to respond effectively to a PvP attack. And that runs right past the point of the Post -- improve the BB.

Yes, the random PvP attack has a better chance of being either repelled our counter-attacked. Other than that, either you put together a de-leveling party or you take out a bounty, or you do nothing. But you already know that.

Other than the random PvPer, the experienced PvPer will have set-ups that allow the loss of 5+ levels and still remain effective. It is apparently worth the price of admission to do that or losing the levels would be too much of a hassle. So, losing levels is not as big a deal to PvPers.

Taking out a bounty costs $$$ -- on top of the $$$ lost to the hit. Fine, but a you now already have a double penalty on the player hit. But you already know that.

So why not have a Bounty system that helps the nonPvPer? A lot of emotions surrounding this -- I can guess why - that this whole discussion is hitting a nerve (place of vulnerability) with PvPers. But you already know that.

#29 Windbattle

Windbattle

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,707 posts
  • Badge

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:23

100 stam them a bunch and knock em outta some gear, and its gonna bother em ;)


True, but then your forcing a play style on to someone. They have to PvP to get rid of their PvP problem. The Bounty Board in its original inception was a place to punish those that repeatedly bother you.

I agree with the original poster that something should be changed. Your recommendations could be abused and could be dangerous to the game.

Also, they NEED to fix not being able to cast multiple bounties on someone. If you do place a bounty, the person that gets bountied sees it as a "green light" to keep hitting you or hit you harder than last time. With the current system, you are unable to do anything about it via Bounty Boards if they are still on the Bounty Board.

At Luisspamer, you were ranting a little. The original poster is just saying that pvpers have no real punishment to hitting people. Levels don't really matter to them, so BB is useless (especially with prestige bonus). Also, if you say just hit them back, then you have forced a play style on to a non-pvper.

There is PvP Protection but that is too expensive for most people, why not just quit the game at that point. No one wins then.

Before I get flamed, I have power leveled and PvPed in the game. I have both perspectives on this topic.

#30 Windbattle

Windbattle

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,707 posts
  • Badge

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:38

Honestly,it wouldn't stop me...I'd probably go on and hit you few more times-
If you would take 5 per every hit-well I would think twice before hitting again...


That takes a crap ton of stamina, first of all. Most people, if not all people, will not do that. Most pvpers know that. So your point falls flat.

#31 rebtex

rebtex

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,487 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:42


Honestly,it wouldn't stop me...I'd probably go on and hit you few more times-
If you would take 5 per every hit-well I would think twice before hitting again...


That takes a crap ton of stamina, first of all. Most people, if not all people, will not do that. Most pvpers know that. So your point falls flat.


If you aren't willing to put the effort in to solve the problem than that's your problem. Combined with how incredibly easy it is to avoid attacks these days there are no excuses.

alonesig_lafuria-1.png


#32 Maehdros

Maehdros

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,329 posts
  • Canada

Posted 20 September 2011 - 04:46


Honestly,it wouldn't stop me...I'd probably go on and hit you few more times-
If you would take 5 per every hit-well I would think twice before hitting again...


That takes a crap ton of stamina, first of all. Most people, if not all people, will not do that. Most pvpers know that. So your point falls flat.



It takes 3000ish stam to take 5 on anyone.. add in a bit more stam for lost hits. + buffs. Most levels take 2500 or more stam to gain back so the opportunity to punish is there.

If more guilds DID do parties on repeated offenders etc, then they wouldnt repeat so much. You dont HAVE to take 5 on everyone who hits you. But smashing someone who repeatedly hits you, a friend or a guildy for gold or for fun , or stomping someone who is hitting a guildy,you,friend while sitting on the BB sends a nice "leave us alone" message.


If a pvpr or in fact ANY player knows they wont be dropped levels. of course they are gonna hit, Thats why you delevel them and discourage it.

#33 sweetlou

sweetlou

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,955 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:45

Too bad you sound upset, and quite frankly I am not making excuses for anyone. Most rants in response to my suggestions run right past the fact that the nonPvPer has few choices to respond effectively to a PvP attack. And that runs right past the point of the Post -- improve the BB.

And herein lies the problem most players argue to begin with. Unless you buy PvP protection, there is no such thing as a nonPvPer in this game! You may not actively attack another player, but instead play the ROLE of the "victim" or attacked or punching bag or whatever you wish to call it.

So since the game began players who claim they don't want to play "that way" or play 1/2 the game are always looking for ways to reduce their xp loss which slows their perceived "progress" accumulating the all important xp.

The BB works fine! Because some players choose not to use it or can't use it effectively doesn't mean it needs to be fixed.

And I'm perfectly calm. I can argue this in my sleep it has become so routine... Good luck.

[Signature removed]

 

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#34 sweetlou

sweetlou

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,955 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:51

True, but then your forcing a play style on to someone.

I'm not flaming you here but blame the devs for setting up the game. No one is being forced to play. PvP IS part of the game and always has been, whether you like it or not. We have all accepted this FACT. Today there is an exception if you wish not to be a participant in PvP for a price. It's called PvP protection. The BB is not broken, nor does it need fixing except for the fact that it isn't more full of bounties. ;)

[Signature removed]

 

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#35 lordthade

lordthade

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 529 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 13:13

...and the reason there are no bounties on the board is.....

#36 fs_musjacom

fs_musjacom
  • Guests

Posted 20 September 2011 - 13:38

...and the reason there are no bounties on the board is.....


... players are not mad enough about what's been lost in PvP attacks on them!

XP loss, MT chances and Thievery % should be increased!

#37 kingtyrin

kingtyrin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,700 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 15:34

lol These types threads just will never stop, eh?

To the original poster- There is many ways you can minimize not getting attacked. I admit I sort of skimmed the thread so dont know if anyone expressed this to you or not. Minimizing yourself as a target is key in avoiding in what you say is an unfair system.


But actually going with the topic-

Right now, your biggest problem is your level. A long time ago, your level was end of content, and then there wasnt the same gear/buffs/ lots of things that makes these levels incredibly easy in terms of stamina it takes to level. Back then, losing 5 levels meant something more at this level. Not so much now.

As the game progresses, it takes more stamina to complete each level (on average, overall. Although there are some easier levels along the way, higher levels are more expensive in general) Considering this, for higher levels the potential xp loss is a much greater risk.

Because of this, for the most part (at least when I played, I have been outta the loop for something like a half year or so) pvp in general decreases as you gain levels and the ones who do partake up there doso at much higher risk. As you approach EoC, you can actually track who pvps and avoid them with levels somewhat easily, so long as you dont mind being near the top (pvp at the EoC has always been something for only the highest rollers that know the true meaning of risk)

This is the reason players like me when I was active camp at lower levels because I can actually turn a profit stealing trivial amounts of gold since in order to one hit my levels back, it takes next to no stam and very little in buffs/pots. This can give you the misconception the BB is an unjust punishment. The actual time to get through these levels is rather low, and it would be pretty hard for someone, even with a vendetta to actually hold you back from continuing with current mechanics.

For higher level players, unless they get pretty extreme gold steals, if they receive the full potential of punishment on the BB, they lose in terms of monetary value. This in itself makes the statement in your title a fallacy. The BB doesnt favor pvpers, it favors those whom have are sitting on the most firepower.

"Firepower" in this case means friends willing to stand up for them and their actions. If you attack the wrong person, you lose 5. Like I said, at our level, thats laughable, but if you were a couple hundred levels above your head right now, you would notice.

Such situations can go beyond that if your friends (remember we are using you as the example of the attacker and one who lost 5) feels that punishment was unjust, can in turn retaliate, causing a pretty messy cycle which no one in the end truly wins except hcs from the fsp bought to fund such things (Im not sure if such wars really go on anymore)

It comes down to Resources (namely fsp) + friends= power. No matter how you change the BB, this will not change.

You can make it so max levels taken on a bounty are 50 and xp loss on the bb is quadrupled, there will still be people pvping because they can dump the money in the game to make the levels back up like nothing. This or they are confidant enough with their circle of friends that no one will take such actions against them without fearing similar repercussions. What I assume it would accomplish is just make more people quit due to an unbalanced system, but who knows.

Is this unfair or an unjust system? Well, hypothetically that comes down to anyone *has the potential to* surround them selfs with the right people, or anyone *has the potential to* drop enough money in the game to buy the stamina needed, it all comes down to their social skills (something not fairly distributed) and their wealth that they can hand to the cows (also something for the most part unfairly distributed) So I would have to conclude that it is my opinion the system is as fair as life itself and thus no "fixes" are needed. ;)

#38 rebtex

rebtex

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,487 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 20 September 2011 - 21:33

[Intelligent Stuff]


KingTyrin for president????? :lol:

alonesig_lafuria-1.png


#39 sweetlou

sweetlou

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,955 posts

Posted 21 September 2011 - 09:35

...and the reason there are no bounties on the board is.....

Posted Image

I wish I knew.

[Signature removed]

 

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#40 Denyza

Denyza

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 735 posts
  • Indonesia

Posted 21 September 2011 - 11:51

Because putting bounty costs money, counter-productive, plain useless, and all around a stupid thing to do.

LastSignature_zps9cb1e771.jpg

 



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Font:
Arial | Calibri | Lucida Console | Verdana
 
Font Size:
9px | 10px | 11px | 12px | 10pt | 12pt
 
Color: