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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 8)


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#361 watagashi

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:27

See it? They just get the gold with a single click, when I'll need to spend a lot of time to get them back, THIS IS PURE STUPID!. You can't denied you are filthy just because you ARE that lazy to hunt for gold and instead YOU ARE CAUSING TROUBLE TO THOSE WHO DOES!



Is it just me or is it a real joke this guy is in the thieves guild?

#362 Davros81

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:27


No, the easiest remedy would be to leave it as is, with the opt-in to the pvp ladder. That way no one outside the mini game has to be bothered at all. And everyone can remain a viable target for real pvp like they have been since the beginning of the game.




if someone who doesnt normally pvp, doesnt have a choice as to whether or not they are hit for gold or not.. or randomly 100 stammed. Why should a pvpr have one? If you pvp, you will be hit. Thats what this system is proposing.


If you can go out and hit others, you shouldnt have a problem being hit. At least I dont think so?


If a pvper doesn't want to play the ladder minigame they are likely to not pvp at all to stay out of it. Is that good for the game and pvp in general?

And why do levelers in general that want nothing to do with the pvp ladder need to be involved in it at all?


Bletch you seem to know the facts that the majority agree with on this, the majority do not want to be involved in some ladder whether voluntarily or involuntarily. TBH why a ladder anyway pvp operates perfectly well outsode of the ladder...

#363 fs_xvxevilxvx

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:30

See it? They just get the gold with a single click, when I'll need to spend a lot of time to get them back, THIS IS PURE STUPID!. You can't denied you are filthy just because you ARE that lazy to hunt for gold and instead YOU ARE CAUSING TROUBLE TO THOSE WHO DOES!



Is it just me or is it a real joke this guy is in the thieves guild?



LMAO....i was totally gonna point that out but resisted HAHA

#364 Bleltch

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:30



If a pvper doesn't want to play the ladder minigame they are likely to not pvp at all to stay out of it. Is that good for the game and pvp in general?

And why do levelers in general that want nothing to do with the pvp ladder need to be involved in it at all?



They dont have to play the ladder mini game LOL. So what if they get hit a few times due to having rating? Whats so bad about a pvpr, being...wait for it.. pvpd?


Question kinda on topic. Your in the 1000 band now B, yet ive noticed you dont hit anyone. The new system if implemented, might result in you being attacked more frequently. Is that why your against it so much? ( just an honest question)

Because it's not pvp. It's the pvp ladder in which the only reason for being is to be rewarded. Either with tokens or medal.

I hit back ever once in a while, but as i dont have the time to devote to going for a win you wont see me on top very often.

#365 Maehdros

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:33

Because it's not pvp. It's the pvp ladder in which the only reason for being is to be rewarded. Either with tokens or medal.

I hit back ever once in a while, but as i dont have the time to devote to going for a win you wont see me on top very often.




So this new system rewarding rating for clearing bounties, hitting off the board..and basically pvping.. isnt pvp? oO

#366 watagashi

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:33


It's not clear, then, what substantive benefit you are offering to the non-PvPers in exchange for the changes you do want. Where is the "give" for what you "take" from the revisions as you propose them ?



PvP protection not removed completely. It can still be bought but simply doesnt protect gold anymore.It only protects xp.

1st hit 75% xp reduction, every hit after that is full 100% on 0 rated player

A bountied player cannot hit their target again until said bounty is clear ( no free hits)


Now, thoughts?



Yes I think ill disagree with all that as long as the rewards remain bound or at the very least pots are bound and new gear added that ISNT BOUND :D

#367 fs_xvxevilxvx

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:34

Surely you dont think to use the Ladders as a basis for how many pvpers there are right?

It is an indicator. Another indicator is that I haven't been attacked in a long time, and that was an attemped gold hit during my hunt, which failed. And then there is the lack of players in my band on the BB, which I monitor pretty much daily.

All of these are imperfect measures, certainly, but I don't have any better ones.
If you have numbers that are better, feel free to post them and their provenance.

It would be lovely if the Cows gave us some stats -- they have complete knowledge of who does what.
But they have not and I supsect they won't, even if they actually know.


And again by that same measure, look at the lower brackets...like say...the first bracket. Is that one more populated because lower level people are more prone to pvp? Or is it because in fact, there are more people at lower levels - hence less actual levelers although your claim to fame is there are more levelers than pvpers...

I know its nonsense. And i LOVE the idea of the cows putting some serious perspective on it LOL.

#368 Bleltch

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:37


Because it's not pvp. It's the pvp ladder in which the only reason for being is to be rewarded. Either with tokens or medal.

I hit back ever once in a while, but as i dont have the time to devote to going for a win you wont see me on top very often.




So this new system rewarding rating for clearing bounties, hitting off the board..and basically pvping.. isnt pvp? oO

It's trying to merge pvp and the ladder back together again, it didn't work before, it wont work now. All it's going to do is piss more players off.... at best.

#369 Bleltch

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:39


If a pvper doesn't want to play the ladder minigame they are likely to not pvp at all to stay out of it. Is that good for the game and pvp in general?

And why do levelers in general that want nothing to do with the pvp ladder need to be involved in it at all?


Bletch you seem to know the facts that the majority agree with on this, the majority do not want to be involved in some ladder whether voluntarily or involuntarily. TBH why a ladder anyway pvp operates perfectly well outsode of the ladder...

I'm just glad others are starting to see it as it is, I was feeling alone on my thinking for a long time. LOL

#370 Davros81

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:47


If a pvper doesn't want to play the ladder minigame they are likely to not pvp at all to stay out of it. Is that good for the game and pvp in general?

And why do levelers in general that want nothing to do with the pvp ladder need to be involved in it at all?


Bletch you seem to know the facts that the majority agree with on this, the majority do not want to be involved in some ladder whether voluntarily or involuntarily. TBH why a ladder anyway pvp operates perfectly well outsode of the ladder...

I'm just glad others are starting to see it as it is, I was feeling alone on my thinking for a long time. LOL


Well mate i have been on both sides of the fence on this one, a lvller and a pvper and appreciate how much people do not like to have the ladder inflicted upon them

#371 IMQUICKILL

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:56

Eliminate xp loss.

Change ladder to top 5 gold steal totals. (same amount of collusion possible as now with rating, so may as well)

Bounty all attacks.

Levelers would be happy, albeit more at risk during hunting, might affect the marketplace a bit(?). Bounty Hunters would be happy. PvPers would be happy for the most part (imo), they still have a ladder to win rewards, they still steal gold, just not xp - and those that are disappointed about taking xp are really not playing the game for the right reasons. The only time xp matters for anything is for the #1 spot or for #1-10 of your month, so unless you're pvping to attempt to knock someone back in rank, which I seriously doubt, the only reason to take xp is to be a prick. Of course, if that's your choice, fine...but that's the reason pvp takes such a beating all the time.



If theres no xp loss in pvp, then whats the point of bounties? Losing 5 levels..or as has been mentioned..being posted repeatedly for more then ( if you hit someone more then once) over simple gold? It would kill pvp, kill the drama in the game, kill wars, and so on. PvP IS evil, yep, and a way to punish that evil in the game is fighting it. guilds band together guild mates chat to one another, and plan revenge. it's too bad few think this way anymore. Players have a dislike for pvprs, but has anyone noticed how well pvprs work together? How much they defend, care, and fight for one another?


Removing xp loss from pvp kills pvp. I can't explain it any simpler then that.



Hmmm...I meant to add something in there, forgot though.....eliminate xp loss from normal attacks, but allow xp loss during bounties. You steal my gold, you get punished. A leveler loses gold, pvper loses xp.

I realize this isn't perfect, but I'm just trying to simplify it....it seems to me there are way too many 'ifs, ands and buts' about it now......

Nobody is questioning how well they work together Mae, I know full well, and I think it's great. If my guild were bigger, and involved in pvp/gvg, there are a bunch of guilds that I would be envious of. :)

But if you attack someone not for gold, not for rating (stupid ladder lol), and only for xp....well, what does it gain you? Personal satisfaction? That's the only thing I can think of, there isn't anything that rewards that in the game. And unless your opponent is ready for an attack, buffed up and all, how can anyone get personal satisfaction from hitting someone that has no way of knowing when it's coming, or is offline, or can't possibly defend themselves because every defense/armor set can easily be beaten? Besides these facts, there is the other reason that so many people hate pvp, and group pvpers into the same category. There is a percentage of pvpers that basically have become bored or have given up on every other aspect of the game, and have decided to become trolls under the bridge. They squat at their level, whacking people in their range for the sheer joy they get at causing grief to others.

These are the things that a lot of levelers cannot grasp.....and I don't think it's ever been explained. I just don't see how a solution can be achieved if both sides don't fully understand the reasoning behind each others actions.


I really don't know what else to say....pvp has always been flawed, and I don't think it will ever be fixed, to be honest. I'd like it to stay, but I don't see how everyone can be satisfied.


On a side note, I got whacked a couple times the other day holding some Guild gold, and lost 1 million or so. I was a bit upset, talked to the guy, and he said the gold was too good to pass up. Which I was okay with, my fault for holding it too long. He had no interest in the xp part, it's just part of it. So I lose gold AND xp, and can do nothing but bounty someone, who will lose xp, but doesn't care about it. Brilliant. If I hit him back, what does that gain me? I can't physically take his xp and give it to myself, so it's just retaliation, then I get bountied and lose more xp. I can't really win, can I?


Anyhoo, I'm not going to wade too much further into this discussion, my troubles with Quango Elite have me on the verge of quitting :x



+1 well said!

#372 Leos3000

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:59

Was thinking today. Is there really a need to make such drastic changes to the current system? I have a pretty good compromise for both sides by can't type it well from my phone so may get it up tomorrow with a lot less changes to the current system.

#373 Jonah Tebaa

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:15

While we are at this thread, how about fix Sealed along with the release of the PVP updates?

If you do not want to remove it, I suggest making it harm the player that has it too. Say if player A has Sealed and hits player B and wins (even if it does not activate):

1- half of the un-sunk gold that he should receive gets lost. (gold hits)
2- he takes half normal XP from player B (bounty board and pvp war)
3- he gets half the normal pvp rating transfer (pvp ladder)
4- Sealed doesnt activate in GVG

If player A hits player B and player B has Sealed:

1- Player A has 2x the chance of master thief activating
2- Player B loses 4 times regular XP if Sealed activates and yet he loses.
3- Player B loses double XP if he loses while Sealed did not activate.

If both players have Sealed, then regular xp loss, gold gain, and pvp rating transfer apply.

#374 vegasmark

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:16

This is just plain pathetic... i read to about page 10? or so and all i see is levelers whining for a win button =/ PVP has been part of the game since the very beginning only this Rev is offering levelers to keep MOST of your oh so precious XP


OMG did you really SAY this? I will not use this to twist it to my opinion or idea as I have been told I have done before. I will say what I FEEL now:

Isnt there a lot of whining here about whats not fair for the PvPer? XX% this and Blah blah point that and examples of what code could be used etc?

The goal is an IMPROVED PvP system that is fair to ALL. There have been a few good ideas that have been proposed to compromise if anyone takes the time to look. Such as:

1. PvP protection that is a floating XP lock but doesnt lock gold loss
2. No Prestige reset with the "ladder"
3. Tit-for-Tat (defending not BB)
4. Preference to set your Prestige to Zero yourself

Those are just to name a few, I dont remember them all but effort is being made in both directions.... take the time to READ them and you will see that PvPers and Hunters ARE trying to meet in the middle.

A mid level player just Msged me and said to put something in to the effect of: Tell them that when I am attacked for my gold and they go on the BB to take a lot more PvP Prestige. Not to give it to the player but to make it more EVEN .... like when we lose XP and the attacking player doesnt get that ... it just disappears ... so should their rating since they dont care about losing XP on the BB. This will make the BB a more level exchange. Wow did she get me thinking. I also cannot WAIT to hear the WHINING about THIS. lol

#375 shdowdrgn

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:27

This is just plain pathetic... i read to about page 10? or so and all i see is levelers whining for a win button =/ PVP has been part of the game since the very beginning only this Rev is offering levelers to keep MOST of your oh so precious XP


OMG did you really SAY this? I will not use this to twist it to my opinion or idea as I have been told I have done before. I will say what I FEEL now:

Isnt there a lot of whining here about whats not fair for the PvPer? XX% this and Blah blah point that and examples of what code could be used etc?

The goal is an IMPROVED PvP system that is fair to ALL. There have been a few good ideas that have been proposed to compromise if anyone takes the time to look. Such as:

1. PvP protection that is a floating XP lock but doesnt lock gold loss
2. No Prestige reset with the "ladder"
3. Tit-for-Tat (defending not BB)
4. Preference to set your Prestige to Zero yourself

Those are just to name a few, I dont remember them all but effort is being made in both directions.... take the time to READ them and you will see that PvPers and Hunters ARE trying to meet in the middle.

A mid level player just Msged me and said to put something in to the effect of: Tell them that when I am attacked for my gold and they go on the BB to take a lot more PvP Prestige. Not to give it to the player but to make it more EVEN .... like when we lose XP and the attacking player doesnt get that ... it just disappears ... so should their rating since they dont care about losing XP on the BB. This will make the BB a more level exchange. Wow did she get me thinking. I also cannot WAIT to hear the WHINING about THIS. lol



If you are going to quote me quote the whole thing. i did say there is a Select few trying to meet in the middle but there have been more in this thread trying to do away with PVP completely than anything else for the leveler side of things. I did not at any point say "Every Leveler" but there have been far to many that just want a win button and want all PVPers locked away in a little box out of sight and out of mind.

From the PVPr end of things Levelers and there obsession wiht minimum XP loss has been considered all the way thru thus there has been very little argument to DRASTICALLY reducing the damage done by rating hits and the like.

To the FEW on the leveling end of things that HAVE tried to meet in the middle my hat is off to them. to the rest... well i personally think they need to grow up and remember that it is a game

#376 vegasmark

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:39

This is just plain pathetic... i read to about page 10? or so and all i see is levelers whining for a win button =/ PVP has been part of the game since the very beginning only this Rev is offering levelers to keep MOST of your oh so precious XP


OMG did you really SAY this? I will not use this to twist it to my opinion or idea as I have been told I have done before. I will say what I FEEL now:

Isnt there a lot of whining here about whats not fair for the PvPer? XX% this and Blah blah point that and examples of what code could be used etc?

The goal is an IMPROVED PvP system that is fair to ALL. There have been a few good ideas that have been proposed to compromise if anyone takes the time to look. Such as:

1. PvP protection that is a floating XP lock but doesnt lock gold loss
2. No Prestige reset with the "ladder"
3. Tit-for-Tat (defending not BB)
4. Preference to set your Prestige to Zero yourself

Those are just to name a few, I dont remember them all but effort is being made in both directions.... take the time to READ them and you will see that PvPers and Hunters ARE trying to meet in the middle.

A mid level player just Msged me and said to put something in to the effect of: Tell them that when I am attacked for my gold and they go on the BB to take a lot more PvP Prestige. Not to give it to the player but to make it more EVEN .... like when we lose XP and the attacking player doesnt get that ... it just disappears ... so should their rating since they dont care about losing XP on the BB. This will make the BB a more level exchange. Wow did she get me thinking. I also cannot WAIT to hear the WHINING about THIS. lol



If you are going to quote me quote the whole thing. i did say there is a Select few trying to meet in the middle but there have been more in this thread trying to do away with PVP completely than anything else for the leveler side of things. I did not at any point say "Every Leveler" but there have been far to many that just want a win button and want all PVPers locked away in a little box out of sight and out of mind.

From the PVPr end of things Levelers and there obsession wiht minimum XP loss has been considered all the way thru thus there has been very little argument to DRASTICALLY reducing the damage done by rating hits and the like.

To the FEW on the leveling end of things that HAVE tried to meet in the middle my hat is off to them. to the rest... well i personally think they need to grow up and remember that it is a game


Well I apologize for the short quote. So I used your whole last post here. I would like to see it be fair for the Hunters and the PvPers....and everyone else. This IS a game and its supposed to be fun for all. Logging in to read logs that read a lot of XP loss is not fun for many players.

I do BOTH aspects PvP and Hunting...plus more in the game .... matter of fact I play all areas of the game. I would like to see IMPROVEMENT that is fair to ALL.

How do YOU feel about losing PvP prestige along with XP on the BB? Wouldnt that make it fair to ALL? I believe it would. Then the players who "camp" at a specific level or range will not have "gimme" tokens due to no loss on the BB. The hunter will lose gold and the precious XP that disappears and the PvPer will lose precious Prestige toward tokens. That is fair. For ALL.

#377 shdowdrgn

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:47

Well I apologize for the short quote. So I used your whole last post here. I would like to see it be fair for the Hunters and the PvPers....and everyone else. This IS a game and its supposed to be fun for all. Logging in to read logs that read a lot of XP loss is not fun for many players.

I do BOTH aspects PvP and Hunting...plus more in the game .... matter of fact I play all areas of the game. I would like to see IMPROVEMENT that is fair to ALL.

How do YOU feel about losing PvP prestige along with XP on the BB? Wouldnt that make it fair to ALL? I believe it would. Then the players who "camp" at a specific level or range will not have "gimme" tokens due to no loss on the BB. The hunter will lose gold and the precious XP that disappears and the PvPer will lose precious Prestige toward tokens. That is fair. For ALL.



are you talking about Prestige or Rating? Prestige is gained and works to activate a buff that increases the XP you gain on a hunt. Rating acts to gain tokens. for the sake of argument i will follow up on both. personally i dont care about the Prestige end of things. i have also done all aspects of the game and was in the top 10 of my month long before that added benefit so if someone wants to rip it from me fine by all means go for it

As for taking rating on the BB again i dont really care one way or the other. the BB is a punishment. the only thing with it is that A) there can be no abuse from it which means that the amount lost and such have to be fair and also it cant be set up as a way of farming rating. as long as that is followed i dont really care ether way. when i PVP ether off the ladder or on i do it for fun and thrill. for a long time i use to live on the BB and enjoyed it. do i care about lost levels? yes and no. i do care as i have to make them up at some point but the battles and the fun with the BHers are good times.

#378 Jonah Tebaa

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:53

Hey Hoof, I dont envy you man... 28 pages, lol... I think an IRC chat regarding this issue will be nice.

#379 vegasmark

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:54

are you talking about Prestige or Rating? Prestige is gained and works to activate a buff that increases the XP you gain on a hunt. Rating acts to gain tokens. for the sake of argument i will follow up on both. personally i dont care about the Prestige end of things. i have also done all aspects of the game and was in the top 10 of my month long before that added benefit so if someone wants to rip it from me fin by all means go for it

As for taking rating on the BB again i dont really care one way or the other. the BB is a punishment. the only thing with it is that A) there can be no abuse from it which means that the amount lost and such have to be fair and also it cant be set up as a way of farming rating. as long as that is followed i dont really care ether way. when i PVP ether off the ladder or on i do it for fun and thrill. for a long time i use to live on the BB and enjoyed it. do i care about lost levels? yes and no. i do care as i have to make them up at some point but the battles and the fun with the BHers are good times.


Forgive me for using improper nomenclature or esoteric terms in the right way. I mean rating ... and yes ... a FAIR amount. Like I said ... fair for all. Also farming would not be possible as it would disappear like XP does .... not get awarded to the attacker. :)

#380 shdowdrgn

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:54

Hey Hoof, I dont envy you man... 28 pages, lol... I think an IRC chat regarding this issue will be nice.



IRC is very limited sadly.. many of us cant get on there. the forum is open to all. only down fall is many on both sides choose not to post. but that is by choice not by simply not being able to. otherwise i would agree with you here


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