Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 8)
#381
Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:56
Keeping this information to themselves always ends up pitting non-pvper against pvpers and everyone thinks that they are the majority.
They need to clear it up. i think it would open the eyes of those that think they are the majority only to find out that they are just the loud mouths spouting off (both sides do this).
They like polls...put an in-game poll up and ask if you prefer to PVP or Not.
-You want to encourage more pvp? take the xp loss out of it. pvpers don't steal xp, so the burden of loss is on the pvped so why have a xp loss? I don't care about gold loss or rating but i do like my xp. I truly believe that would solve a lot of the back and forth.
-The number one reason that those that don't pvp is because of the xp loss. And i would wager that the number one reason that people like to pvp is not because of the xp loss they cause but mostly for rating and gold. (there are a few i would bet but they would be the minority)
#382
Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:58
It just struck me that many PvPers seem to need to have non-PvPers around in order to enjoy the game,
but some non-PvPers do not think they need PvPers in the game at all. LOL
It may seem that way but not the case. PvPers hit cause they like to hit. Taking a levelers gold and XP are just an added bonus to most.
Perhaps someone should try to explain, from a non-PvPers perspective of course -- by which I mean that even if the author is a Pvper they should try to think like a non-Pvper -- the benefits that PvP brings to non-PvPers . . . I assume such benefits exists ? It might help the discussions.
Every PvPer in this game has leveled at some point and continues to level ex: lost levels. As far as benefits? That is all going depend on ones perspective of what they call a benefit.
Example: I 100 stam player A for 2 million XP. Player A's guild doesnt lose XP but gets to benefit from more XP once that player relevels. Thus I consider that a benefit to your guild. Some may say it affects my characer, in which it does but I am more for putting my guild first instead of character
Highly speculative and unprovable benefits like "it keeps the price of FSP down" should be avoided . . . you won't convince anyone with purported benefits like that. You especially won't convince donators, who like a high gold-per-FSP value.
I consider myself far more of a leveler than a PvPer. Granite I am in a PvP but I believe that the change of XP loss is adequate and that if you want PvP protection it should be available but it should not protect gold
#383
Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:59
i just can't seem to figure out why it is so hard for the cows to figure out this PVP thing! I know they have the numbers of how many PVPer are out there and how many true pvpers there are and not just the ones that try it out and get smacked around or bountied and decide for themselves that it is just not worth it.
Keeping this information to themselves always ends up pitting non-pvper against pvpers and everyone thinks that they are the majority.
They need to clear it up. i think it would open the eyes of those that think they are the majority only to find out that they are just the loud mouths spouting off (both sides do this).
They like polls...put an in-game poll up and ask if you prefer to PVP or Not.
-You want to encourage more pvp? take the xp loss out of it. pvpers don't steal xp, so the burden of loss is on the pvped so why have a xp loss? I don't care about gold loss or rating but i do like my xp. I truly believe that would solve a lot of the back and forth.
-The number one reason that those that don't pvp is because of the xp loss. And i would wager that the number one reason that people like to pvp is not because of the xp loss they cause but mostly for rating and gold. (there are a few i would bet but they would be the minority)
+2
#384
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:01
are you talking about Prestige or Rating? Prestige is gained and works to activate a buff that increases the XP you gain on a hunt. Rating acts to gain tokens. for the sake of argument i will follow up on both. personally i dont care about the Prestige end of things. i have also done all aspects of the game and was in the top 10 of my month long before that added benefit so if someone wants to rip it from me fin by all means go for it
As for taking rating on the BB again i dont really care one way or the other. the BB is a punishment. the only thing with it is that A) there can be no abuse from it which means that the amount lost and such have to be fair and also it cant be set up as a way of farming rating. as long as that is followed i dont really care ether way. when i PVP ether off the ladder or on i do it for fun and thrill. for a long time i use to live on the BB and enjoyed it. do i care about lost levels? yes and no. i do care as i have to make them up at some point but the battles and the fun with the BHers are good times.
Forgive me for using improper nomenclature or esoteric terms in the right way. I mean rating ... and yes ... a FAIR amount. Like I said ... fair for all. Also farming would not be possible as it would disappear like XP does .... not get awarded to the attacker.
Then i would be fine with it. i figured that was what you meant but figured safe over sorry so addressed both as i wouldnt be to surprised to see someone want to strip Prestige as well at some point lol. as far as i can tell people want to do as much damage to PVPers on the board as they can which is fine by me as long as it is remotely fair in contrast
#385
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:03
are you talking about Prestige or Rating? Prestige is gained and works to activate a buff that increases the XP you gain on a hunt. Rating acts to gain tokens. for the sake of argument i will follow up on both. personally i dont care about the Prestige end of things. i have also done all aspects of the game and was in the top 10 of my month long before that added benefit so if someone wants to rip it from me fin by all means go for it
As for taking rating on the BB again i dont really care one way or the other. the BB is a punishment. the only thing with it is that A) there can be no abuse from it which means that the amount lost and such have to be fair and also it cant be set up as a way of farming rating. as long as that is followed i dont really care ether way. when i PVP ether off the ladder or on i do it for fun and thrill. for a long time i use to live on the BB and enjoyed it. do i care about lost levels? yes and no. i do care as i have to make them up at some point but the battles and the fun with the BHers are good times.
Forgive me for using improper nomenclature or esoteric terms in the right way. I mean rating ... and yes ... a FAIR amount. Like I said ... fair for all. Also farming would not be possible as it would disappear like XP does .... not get awarded to the attacker.
Then i would be fine with it. i figured that was what you meant but figured safe over sorry so addressed both as i wouldnt be to surprised to see someone want to strip Prestige as well at some point lol. as far as i can tell people want to do as much damage to PVPers on the board as they can which is fine by me as long as it is remotely fair in contrast
On the contrary mate ... I dont want to do damage to anyone or any group .... I simply want IMPROVEMENTS that are fair for all. Cheers
#386
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:08
i just can't seem to figure out why it is so hard for the cows to figure out this PVP thing! I know they have the numbers of how many PVPer are out there and how many true pvpers there are and not just the ones that try it out and get smacked around or bountied and decide for themselves that it is just not worth it.
Keeping this information to themselves always ends up pitting non-pvper against pvpers and everyone thinks that they are the majority.
They need to clear it up. i think it would open the eyes of those that think they are the majority only to find out that they are just the loud mouths spouting off (both sides do this).
They like polls...put an in-game poll up and ask if you prefer to PVP or Not.
-You want to encourage more pvp? take the xp loss out of it. pvpers don't steal xp, so the burden of loss is on the pvped so why have a xp loss? I don't care about gold loss or rating but i do like my xp. I truly believe that would solve a lot of the back and forth.
-The number one reason that those that don't pvp is because of the xp loss. And i would wager that the number one reason that people like to pvp is not because of the xp loss they cause but mostly for rating and gold. (there are a few i would bet but they would be the minority)
If theres no xp loss, there will be more collusion.Groups working together hitting one another yet not bountying. Add in the fact most players bounty now due to xp loss..not gold. Bounty board would die.
Hitting someone and taking xp is the dark side part of this game. I get that players dont like it. Fine, dandy. Choose how to react. walk away, flip out curse and swear at someone for taking bites of data ( gold rating xp) band together with friends and spank the attacker back yelling *shame on you!*, taking matters into your own hands.. making yourself less of a target... throw on an evil grin and slap the player back, maybe even search your range occasionally and mug someone :shock: Try it...its fun...and it is a game.. remember that first and foremost. ROLE PLAY!
PvP is all about choices..you dont have a choice whether or not you are hit or not. Its an agressive system.Attacking has the advantage. HOWEVER you can choose how to respond.
#387
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:12
Not true, except at EOC. If the player who was hit had used the stam you forced them to use for releveling to gain new levels instead, they'd have contributed more XP to the guild than in your scenario, because higher level monsters award more XP per stam. At best the deleveld player was in a higher level realm when they lost levels, but even so, they don't get any bonus XP for killing the higher-level mobs, and their progress to even higher levels (and more XP contributed per stam) is delayed because you hit them. So all you did was reduce that player's contribution of XP to his guild, unless the player hit was at EOC.Perhaps someone should try to explain, from a non-PvPers perspective of course -- by which I mean that even if the author is a Pvper they should try to think like a non-Pvper -- the benefits that PvP brings to non-PvPers . . . I assume such benefits exists ? It might help the discussions.
. . . As far as benefits? That is all going depend on ones perspective of what they call a benefit.
Example: I 100 stam player A for 2 million XP. Player A's guild doesnt lose XP but gets to benefit from more XP once that player relevels. Thus I consider that a benefit to your guild.
So you are saying its still a benefit if your EOC? It can be twisted any way possible is my point on your question
#388
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:19
what does the LvL'ers/non-PvP'ers benefit from that is brought to the game from PvP'ing. well lets see an start from one issue at hand the PvP ladder. there is gear from there that is invented from items won from PvP that has been used in arena, GvG, and even a shocker LvL'ing/ hunting. might be some others from ladder but don't know of them off hand.
now lets see what else, what about buffs/ pots in the game that are also used in PvP that have very good use in LvL'ing/ hunting. got alot to choose from. KE, DC, EW, EA, SA, and Const for a few starters.
try to think of what ever has a use in PvP in gear, buffs, pots whatever and then remove it from the game cause it has use in PvP aspect how good would LvL'ing be then on FS. cause then it would be griped about to have those things brought back into the game but since is PvP use even a light bit would bring about PvP'ers which is ' evil/ down fall of FS ' so means it wouldn't be allowed.
an like shdowdrgn has mentioned a bit earlier that some non-PvP'ers trying to meet in middle with PvP'ers kudos to them as well an PvP'ers just need to keep going in that direction. it is just these ones that are non-PvP'ers that don't even wanna try and wanna have a gimme gimme gimme, having their cake and eating it too that need to blow off.
#389
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:29
Your purported benefit was actually a detriment for all but a few top players. There's no issue of "twisting," the math just doesn't support your claim. If non-Pvpers benefit from PvP, you haven't even colorably demonstrated it.
You never asked for a plausible demonstration but simply how a non-PvPer would benefit from PvP.
#390
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:31
players pvp, they attack and die? they lose xp and gold
players pvp they attack and win... defender loses xp and gold
Remember..its only 1 stam when you attack a creature and die
the set % of xp / stam used was introduced out to balance pvp. Its never going to be "fair" as players level up more it takes more stam to level. On the BB everyone is equal. It takes 3000ish stam to rip 5 levels. Thats fair for everyone. Is it easy to get back? nope..but why should it be? its a punishment right?
Off the board everyone loses teh same % of xp regardless of level.. its balanced yet risky. for Everyone.
#391
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:48
players level.they hit creatures... if they die.. they lose xp, and gold
players pvp, they attack and die? they lose xp and gold
players pvp they attack and win... defender loses xp and gold
Remember..its only 1 stam when you attack a creature and die
the set % of xp / stam used was introduced out to balance pvp. Its never going to be "fair" as players level up more it takes more stam to level. On the BB everyone is equal. It takes 3000ish stam to rip 5 levels. Thats fair for everyone. Is it easy to get back? nope..but why should it be? its a punishment right?
Off the board everyone loses teh same % of xp regardless of level.. its balanced yet risky. for Everyone.
You are so correct ... if the is no Dblr being used .... but the player has the option or CHOICE to use buffs and potions. With LD and Imp .... the nasty beasties dont kill us often ... much less every time they hit us .... and we do not lose XP or gold there .....
Where is that option or choice in PvP? Opt in and PvP protection. Exactly
#392
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:50
players level.they hit creatures... if they die.. they lose xp, and gold
players pvp, they attack and die? they lose xp and gold
players pvp they attack and win... defender loses xp and gold
Remember..its only 1 stam when you attack a creature and die
the set % of xp / stam used was introduced out to balance pvp. Its never going to be "fair" as players level up more it takes more stam to level. On the BB everyone is equal. It takes 3000ish stam to rip 5 levels. Thats fair for everyone. Is it easy to get back? nope..but why should it be? its a punishment right?
Off the board everyone loses teh same % of xp regardless of level.. its balanced yet risky. for Everyone.
You are so correct ... if the is no Dblr being used .... but the player has the option or CHOICE to use buffs and potions. With LD and Imp .... the nasty beasties dont kill us often ... much less every time they hit us .... and we do not lose XP or gold there .....
Where is that option or choice in PvP? Opt in and PvP protection. Exactly
Correct but as previously stated by Maehdros he is for PvP protection as long as it doesnt protect gold
#393
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:51
#394
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:52
players level.they hit creatures... if they die.. they lose xp, and gold
players pvp, they attack and die? they lose xp and gold
players pvp they attack and win... defender loses xp and gold
Remember..its only 1 stam when you attack a creature and die
the set % of xp / stam used was introduced out to balance pvp. Its never going to be "fair" as players level up more it takes more stam to level. On the BB everyone is equal. It takes 3000ish stam to rip 5 levels. Thats fair for everyone. Is it easy to get back? nope..but why should it be? its a punishment right?
Off the board everyone loses teh same % of xp regardless of level.. its balanced yet risky. for Everyone.
You are so correct ... if the is no Dblr being used .... but the player has the option or CHOICE to use buffs and potions. With LD and Imp .... the nasty beasties dont kill us often ... much less every time they hit us .... and we do not lose XP or gold there .....
Where is that option or choice in PvP? Opt in and PvP protection. Exactly
Correct but as previously stated by Maehdros he is for PvP protection as long as it doesnt protect gold
And yet the proposed IMPROVEMENTS will remove it??? Not fair to all
#395
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:54
#396
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:55
Which is why most PvPers are for keeping it as long as Gold isnt protected. I think its a fair compromise but then again we can only throw ideas out there and hope Hoof and HCS pick up on them
+1
#397
fs_dreadstarx
Posted 15 October 2011 - 21:56
#398
Posted 15 October 2011 - 22:21
players level.they hit creatures... if they die.. they lose xp, and gold
players pvp, they attack and die? they lose xp and gold
players pvp they attack and win... defender loses xp and gold
Remember..its only 1 stam when you attack a creature and die
the set % of xp / stam used was introduced out to balance pvp. Its never going to be "fair" as players level up more it takes more stam to level. On the BB everyone is equal. It takes 3000ish stam to rip 5 levels. Thats fair for everyone. Is it easy to get back? nope..but why should it be? its a punishment right?
Off the board everyone loses teh same % of xp regardless of level.. its balanced yet risky. for Everyone.
You are so correct ... if the is no Dblr being used .... but the player has the option or CHOICE to use buffs and potions. With LD and Imp .... the nasty beasties dont kill us often ... much less every time they hit us .... and we do not lose XP or gold there .....
Where is that option or choice in PvP? Opt in and PvP protection. Exactly
Actually xp lock works for both creatures or pvp. LAst ditch works for both pvp and creatures..se etc. Same for force shield, and many other buffs. Enchancements also work as well.
At the end of the day everyone isnt going to be pleased.Hoofs going to have to decide what he deems fair.and move on. This is 8 revisions now? Please, No, More!
#399
Posted 15 October 2011 - 22:22
it has been said over and over in game even when the now highest lvl players to not have that much gold in open when they were way lower lvl's and that statement still stands today. but yet players( non-PvP'ers ) still ignore what they have been told as advise to prevent being a PvP target and have large gold amount in open. and some hits that are done are due to many guilds recalling worn gear off active members not even caring they made them easier targets then turn and blame PvP'ers for something their own guild members caused making easier PvP targets. some of the non-PvP'ers can't even trust their own guild to help them by way of holding other guild members gold but yet they don't blame them for the hits made on them due to large gold in open.
guilds need to help out their fellow guildmates not to be such ' marks ' for PvP hits for gold in open. heck can even have players in a different guild help out if really need be help out. but most don't cause they need to have some other way to have a scapegoat.
I have helped out some in my own guild and some even not in my guild or an ally guild but someone that helped me out in early days asked me to help out some of their guildmates not be such a PvP gold target by holding some gold for them. you don't want to help out your own non-PvP'ers be less of a gold PvP target by helping hold/ trade in MP their gold and recall worn gear off them then the hits they get can not be placed on PvP'ers.
I think most PvP'ers will admit the main reason they hit for is the gold in the open on non-PvP'ers as well as PvP'ers. so PvP'ers are wise for the most part and not have much gold on them in the open. it is not something that became a new topic/ issue yesterday its gone of for a few yrs well before PvP protection came about.
so like has been said for a long, long time non-PvP'ers keep your gold in the open low or none at all. find someone you can trust that is higher in lvl's help you trade it in or keep it for safe keeping until it is needed. and you would become less of a target in PvP, how hard is that?
#400
Posted 15 October 2011 - 23:14
Hi all,
Many thanks to all players who gave feedback on the previous revision. Please take a look at the suggestions below and let us know what you like/dislike. If you don't like something, please let us know why.
[*]Remove the need for the PvP Ladder opt-in/out by reducing the xp loss by 75% when a player has 0 PvP Rating. (This does not apply to bounty attacks.) Agree on this and never understood why the opt-in/out was really needed to start with.
[*]Remove the PvP Protection upgrades. (With the exception of it being automatically applied to new players. We feel with the 75% reduction to xp loss for 0 PvP Rating and also the reduction in cost for the Protect XP upgrade these upgrades are no longer required.)Never should of been added in first place.
[*]PvP Rating can only be gained from a player who has been active in the last 48 hours.
[*]Addition of new bound potions for PvP rewards.Why are pvp rewards even needed? Remove all rewards completely, they are part of what caused the problems between pvpers and non-pvpers to start with and helped to ruin pvp.The ladder shouldn't be about what rewards you can get it should be about who is the best pvper in that band and that has been lost site of with the introduction of the pvp rewards.
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