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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 8)


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#401 Lashiel

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 23:42

I do not PvP. Yesterday I got hit by a player. I put up a bounty. Today, I logged in and he had hit me 3 more times. There was a pm that if I put a bounty on him he would 100 stam me. I put up the bounty. He hit me again, I put up yet another bounty. He's offline at the writing of this post. How come he can attack me 3 me three times and take almost 600k experience off me in those attacks and I can only bounty him 1 time? You need to give some long thoughts to the protection of people that do not wish to take part in every single facet of this game. We are told that PvP is part of the game, and to grin and bare it. lol I have a problem with people that can dish it out and get a wedgie when they have to take it.

#402 abhorrence

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 23:48

Can you look at it from the hunters perspective? Getting attacked while hunting and returning the attack only to be bountied and have 5 levels taken ... or worse yet ... to have the PvP player "trash" talk and say if you retaliate you will lose 5? That is bullying BTW.


Who has done this to you?
You are saying that people attack you for gold then tell you if you attack back they will have their guild delevel you. Who does that? Which guild(s)?

#403 lordthade

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 23:53

No monster that I know of swings at you first. Only other players (but they'll swear it's "part of the game").

The board is a joke. Stop bountying. It's throwing good money after bad. You're not going to impress upon them the need to stop-- if anything you've only convinced them you're "weak" (for using a game aspect, no less) and will hit you more for doing it. Oh, and if you get a merc... look out! :roll:

Carry less gold. Level away. That's about it.

#404 abhorrence

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 00:02

I also doubt that a Hunter will tell you that their gold and XP are worth your XP .... maybe your XP and Rating. Never know ... you might see De-Rating parties too.... OMG more PvP


There is no system that can compare values based on what is important to the individual player. The system has to balance things based on comparable factors. Exp VS Exp. That anyone complains that "PvPers don't care about experience therefore the system doesn't work" is ridiculous. The system provides for a mechanism to reduce the ability of a player to attack others.
If you want to PvP consistently then you will set aside caring about what ever you can lose. You have to set it aside. If I can get bountied and have my rating taken away, then I will stop caring about my rating. If I can lose gold, I'll stop carrying gold. If I can lose FSP I won't have FSP. If I lose experience then I stop caring about experience. The reason you probably don't consistently PvP is that you are not willing to set aside the loss of levels.
This doesn't mean I can't be punished. Loss of levels still effects me and my ability to continue to play the way I like. It's just that I don't care if I get punished. I am willing to endure the punishment to play with in the rules and the style I enjoy.

#405 Maehdros

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 00:11

Well, let's see where we are:

[*:2h20rgop] The PvP community cannot agree on what changes would be beneficial
[*:2h20rgop] the polls show most people do not care, and those that do care are fundamentally divided over what to change.
[*:2h20rgop] other area of the game need improvement



actually over 8 revisions now, the pvp community has narrowed a system down quite nicely. Its everyone else who isnt satisfied unless its 0 xp loss, pvp protection, opt out..and constantly crying the board isnt working. No matter what everyone wont be pleased. Hoof needs to trim this thread , decide on the final few tweaks, and introduce the system. Will people like it? yep, will people complain? yep. it happens with everything thats tweaked in this game. Cows need to step in. tweak the system how they wish..say : THIS is the way it's gonna be, and move on.

#406 Maehdros

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 00:21

Really? Says who? I've seen a few PvPers who don't agree with your proposals, and at least one prominent PvPer who prefers that things stay the way they are. So how can you say the "PvP community has narrowed a system down nicely" ?



Did i say every single member likes the proposal? nope.but if you've read through the 8 revisions you can see.. its being narrowed down and fine tuned due to feedback and ideas mostly from the pvp side of the community. Or did you miss a few threads?



All i see from the non pvping side is the want and need of more reductions and limits.

#407 Maehdros

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:01

law, its the pvp community who is trying to find a proper system different from the one we have now that shows who truly pvps. And who deserves dominance...medal..tokens..whatever. Forget the rewards for a sec. Who should be tops on a ladder. someone who ten stams a player once? or someone who goes out..hits for their guild..defends guildmates..isnt afraid to get their hands dirty.. clears bounty..and actually had skill in pvp.

. As i said, some will like this new system..some wont. That can be said for everything in this game. The pvprs are coming across the table after being shown another revision by hoof,to say here...lets do this..or how does this sound? Yet all i see from levelers is NO! I dont wanna be hit! or NO I dont want xp loss! etc. Its hard to try and please players who wont budge an inch.

#408 Tdogg777

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:35

I would like to know why you are taking the opt in/out away? Why should I have to be forced to get hit and lose xp. Even if it's only 25% loss. It should be a choice. PVP if you want but let me stay out of it. Please. I have spent in the thousands of dollars to level. I dont think it's fair to make me be a part of PVP if I dont want to be. Change anything you want about PVP but let me opt-out so I dont have to worry about being hit all the time. I dont think it's right to make people pay for protection from being bullied by pvpers either. Please tell me any good reason why I should have to be part of pvp? As a paying customer I think it's only fair to let levelers level and pvpers pvp.

#409 Tdogg777

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:46

Why should I (As a player who does not PvP, nor care about it) why should i lose EXP and also have to repair my items??

Fair enough that PvP is part of the game, but me not being part of it, I should not have to suffer, just because I dont play that part of the game.

or is it just another gold sink?


I posted this in the other thread, but it fell on deaf ears(fast moving chat!)



Deaf ears again eh!


There is a large reduction in the xp loss (75%) for players with 0 PvP Rating.


How does 75% loss make it better? It just makes it not as bad. Why do I pay for leveling if you force me to participate in even 75% less loss? Why can you not understand that's not good enough? Why do you take away good changes? That opt out/in was the best thing you ever did to FS.

#410 4gottn4ver

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:48

very true Maehdros, PvP'ers are not all gonna agree to some things on the ' change ' but can agree on things alot easier cause of it being PvP'ers even if it is part-time to hard core PvP'ers. and that would go same way with non-PvP'ers on something that pertains to non-PvP'ing the non-PvP'ers won't all agree on same thing but would go over easier for the same ' like ' to be talking it over. but this way is 2 different game styles going head to head with a side not backing down on very much. but getting the same group together an bickering back an forth like PvP'ers with PvP'ers is not that big of an issue they are able to agree to disagree which I think the same would go with non-PvP'ers and other non-PvP'ers. not everyone in same ' group ' are all gonna agree totally as one voice. that is what is getting twisted here and things are going way off subject.

but if this being PvP'ers just talking yea would have some heated talks some but that comes from being PvP'ers but they would be able to come to an agreement more so. I think also most PvP'ers tend to trash talk fellow PvP'ers but that is their nature to trash talk some but not to the point it gets out of hand with eachother. it is part of what PvP'ers do mutually between eachother to out do another and challenge.

during time I was solely a non-PvP'er the connection with other players on FS wasn't there like it is to me know doing some aspects of PvP outside of my own guild. an I am not saying this applies to all but to me seems more of a connection that way. an many times I think with some of the non-PvP'ers the PvP'ers are willing to help protect them and teach them some ways to better protect themself. but if the non-PvP'ers guild is not gonna try an help protect their non-PvP'ers they need to find one that can help protect them.

do I like how the ' ladder ' an what can be gained by winning the ladder since I stopped doing some aspects of PvP as it stands before these 8 threads. nope, but I also do admit the ones that do like those parts of it that I don't like or agree with to agree to disagree with them with respect. do I agree with some things that the PvP'ers want the non-PvP'ers don't want to give up nope I don't agree with the PvP'ers and I agree with non-PvP'ers. but how this is looking is non-PvP'ers are at one end of the rope while PvP'ers are at other end getting sorta no place. both sides are not gonna agree with everything, both sides are gonna hate some parts of what is being talked about. that is the point of meeting someplace in the middle ground, but like one mentioned awhile back that is not what this is all about " this isn't a democracy or a negotiation ". but yet that one is looking like flipping their words again, go figure. :roll:

#411 fs_tawebyrd

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:49

Tdogg777 I would like to know why you are taking the opt in/out away? Why should I have to be forced to get hit and lose xp. Even if it's only 25% loss. It should be a choice. PVP if you want but let me stay out of it. Please. I have spent in the thousands of dollars to level. I dont think it's fair to make me be a part of PVP if I dont want to be. Change anything you want about PVP but let me opt-out so I dont have to worry about being hit all the time. I dont think it's right to make people pay for protection from being bullied by pvpers either. Please tell me any good reason why I should have to be part of pvp? As a paying customer I think it's only fair to let levelers level and pvpers pvp. Thank you i agree with this since voting on revision 1 i dont want in and wont let cows force me on ladder its quits for me and i wont be the lone ranger by far as some have said seems no matter the vote hcs wants no opt out see my bio this game is run into the ground every day all day, most players as been shown in polls dont care most dont read forums, polls arent representative of game when less then 100 players vote then a new revision is put up and hcs still cant figure out why more and more quit all the time and no replacements are coming maybe as some one has suggested to me the game has so many mulits now who pay for the game they get the nod when changes are made to the game

#412 fortville

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:51





I shouldn't have to lose any at all If I'm not a PvPer


Yo, it's a PvP game. 8)



Only a very small part of it, and only about 10% of players actually PvP.

So YO, it's not just a PvP game!

Agreed! So I lose XP when you gain PvP points so to make it fair how about every time someone in your range levels up you lose PvP points. <---- Absurd of course but so is forcing players who work hard for their XP to lose it for someone else's benefit. I want no part of the ladder and will vote no to anything that forces me to lose XP.

#413 Teuchter

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:02

VegasMark wrote:
I also doubt that a Hunter will tell you that their gold and XP are worth your XP .... maybe your XP and Rating. Never know ... you might see De-Rating parties too.... OMG more PvP

Abhorrence wrote
There is no system that can compare values based on what is important to the individual player. The system has to balance things based on comparable factors. Exp VS Exp. That anyone complains that "PvPers don't care about experience therefore the system doesn't work" is ridiculous. The system provides for a mechanism to reduce the ability of a player to attack others.
If you want to PvP consistently then you will set aside caring about what ever you can lose. You have to set it aside. If I can get bountied and have my rating taken away, then I will stop caring about my rating. If I can lose gold, I'll stop carrying gold. If I can lose FSP I won't have FSP. If I lose experience then I stop caring about experience. The reason you probably don't consistently PvP is that you are not willing to set aside the loss of levels.
This doesn't mean I can't be punished. Loss of levels still effects me and my ability to continue to play the way I like. It's just that I don't care if I get punished. I am willing to endure the punishment to play with in the rules and the style I enjoy.

, YET a lot of pvpers have it right in their Bios , lvls mean nothing to me , ,, and why in the name of the wee man should players on the bounty board be able to hit you for free after you put them there is beyond me ,, AND YOU WONDER WHY HUNDREDS OF PLAYERS WHO WERE NOT INTERESTED IN PVOP HAVE LEFT THE GAME , WAKE UP HCS

#414 DemonGate

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:03

But I would want to see thd 24 hour protection remain or hell make it a buff.



I quite like the idea of making protection a buff.........

(still got another 10 pages to read!! lol)

#415 shdowdrgn

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:05

And who deserves dominance...medal..tokens..whatever. Forget the rewards for a sec. Who should be tops on a ladder. someone who ten stams a player once? or someone who goes out..hits for their guild..defends guildmates..isnt afraid to get their hands dirty.. clears bounty..and actually had skill in pvp.

What leveler has disagreed with that? But what does XP loss reductions for levelers matter to dominance ? Hitting levelers doesn't show PvP skill, especially when you can pick and choose which ones to hit. True PvP skill is demonstrated when a PvPer fights another PvPer, not when a PvPer 100-stams a kitten.


With this there is a certain amount of risk in all PVP when you PVP out side of the ladder people have options in there reaction. a big reason a lot of levelers wont try PVP is this risk that comes from the options that a player has once getting hit. the average leveler is only a kitten by choice. once hit they have the option to bounty and rip 5 levels. considering that a lot of people will not try PVP for fear of loosing levels isnt it reasonable that in its self is part of the Dominance of a PVPer?
Isnt it reasonable to say that anyone to scared of risking there levels is NOT dominant in PVP there for has not earned the medal nor the tokens?
that is after all part of what we are discussing here.


quoted only part of your post as that is the part i wanted to address but made sure to take that part in whole

#416 Tdogg777

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:10

I shouldn't have to lose any at all If I'm not a PvPer[/quote]

Yo, it's a PvP game. 8)[/quote]


Only a very small part of it, and only about 10% of players actually PvP.

So YO, it's not just a PvP game![/quote]
Agreed! So I lose XP when you gain PvP points so to make it fair how about every time someone in your range levels up you lose PvP points. <---- Absurd of course but so is forcing players who work hard for their XP to lose it for someone else's benefit. I want no part of the ladder and will vote no to anything that forces me to lose XP.[/quote]

Wow, finally someone said it. This is not a pvp game. Levelers pay the salaries for the cows yet we get forced to be a part of pvp. I'm not saying that pvpers dont donate and buy gear or other things. However, most the funding of this game comes from power leveling. So listen to the paying customers and let us level. Period. No exceptions. Why is that so wrong to let levelers level? Let pvpers pvp. NO cost. No one should have to pay to opt in or out. No buying protection. Keep pvp and level separate. Why is that wrong. I'm still looking for just one good reason from the cows.

#417 jklundt

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:17

Wow, finally someone said it. This is not a pvp game. Levelers pay the salaries for the cows yet we get forced to be a part of pvp. I'm not saying that pvpers dont donate and buy gear or other things. However, most the funding of this game comes from power leveling. So listen to the paying customers and let us level. Period. No exceptions. Why is that so wrong to let levelers level? Let pvpers pvp. NO cost. No one should have to pay to opt in or out. No buying protection. Keep pvp and level separate. Why is that wrong. I'm still looking for just one good reason from the cows.


I seem to think there are plenty of PvPers who do their fair share of leveling as well. The current XP rate is far more risky than what is being proposed. I could 100 stam hit you and you lose XP and you didnt opt into anything but logging into this game. I understand your point of not wanting to be hit and losing the XP "money" you have put into this game. I have put my fair share into it as well and have came to the conclusion that PvP is actually part of the game after all. Not trying to convince you to PvP but the new revision is more beneficial to the leveler in my eyes.

#418 Bleltch

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:18

Wow, finally someone said it. This is not a pvp game. Levelers pay the salaries for the cows yet we get forced to be a part of pvp. I'm not saying that pvpers dont donate and buy gear or other things. However, most the funding of this game comes from power leveling. So listen to the paying customers and let us level. Period. No exceptions. Why is that so wrong to let levelers level? Let pvpers pvp. NO cost. No one should have to pay to opt in or out. No buying protection. Keep pvp and level separate. Why is that wrong. I'm still looking for just one good reason from the cows.

A number of the games developers have stated repeatedly that this is a pvp game. But as far as the pvp ladder goes i'm on your side. The ladder players should duke it out with themselves. There's nothing dominant about blindsiding a player in leveling gear, and they definitely shouldn't be rewarded for it.

#419 Necra

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:27

so buying 3 -4 -5+ personal sets and per/ff plus having a hunting set and buying top potions and buffs on a daily doesn't count from a pvp'r as being equivalent to the amount that a lvl'r contributes. most guilds wont supply there mates with pvp gear ya kinda have to get your own. not to mention all the pvp arena gear that is needed to master the arena. noooooo not comparable RIGHT?!?!?

#420 Tdogg777

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:30

Thank you for agreeing. Think of this. They sell me epics that cost me about 5 hundred dollars to buy. "or more" Then I wear them for stam and xp gain and I cant even attempt to defend a PVP attack. What sense does that make? PVP game or not. Dont sell items for xp gain then punish the people that wear them with pvp hits they cant defend. Was opt out a problem? I dont remember anything wrong with that.


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