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LEVEL/VL EXPLOIT FIX SUGGESTION


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#41 Maehdros

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 15:35

Along with making it to where the level of buffs you can cast be dependent on actual level to stop people from exploiting lower levels.

I.e if your actual level is 999 and VL is 1001 you can't cast level 1000 buffs. (I think this already happens, but wanted to make sure)



Currently casting buffs is based on your VL.

Example: level 699AL/700VL, the player can cast 700 buffs ( which they already have points into) BUT cannot put any skill points into more 700 buffs. IF they reset a buff they cannot put skill points back into it until AL is 700.

level 699AL/699VL they cannot put points into 700 buffs, OR use any 700 buffs they might have previously had skill points into.

#42 fs_lordtobar

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:55

Much simpler and more fair to everyone fix would be to make the ability to attack someone dependent on actual level instead of virtual, but keep pvp bands dependent on VL

Along with making it to where the level of buffs you can cast be dependent on actual level to stop people from exploiting lower levels.

with your proposal a deleveled person has an advantage over other people he is off-ladder pvping: his level-up points are based on virtual level, so he has more of them than the non-deleveled people he can exchange attacks with.
however this is not a big advantage, and it is an advantage that the deleveled player earned by gaining the levels they did.

from a leveler point of view, your proposal makes the bounty board a high-risk but effective way to stop player A from attacking player B, but gives A a new set of players to attack.
as a result, your proposal makes the bounty board not much of a punishment but at least it would no longer be useless to levelers.

but no one at HC seems interested in doing anything about the bounty board, so it is probably all moot.

#43 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:42

from a leveler point of view, your proposal makes the bounty board a high-risk but effective way to stop player A from attacking player B, but gives A a new set of players to attack.
as a result, your proposal makes the bounty board not much of a punishment but at least it would no longer be useless to levelers.



It seems you feel knocking the player out of range of the "victim" of the attack isn't much of a punishment?

Or is it due to the fact that the player deleveled would still have a pvp range?

I dont see an issue with their range changing. Its about justice for the placer of the bounty,and they get their justice right? They see a player who hurt them lose levels, and they can;t be attacked unless said player relevels into their range. ( If pvp ranges went by AL)

#44 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:01


there should be a downside to being 22 levels under your real level, otherwise there is no real risk to PvP.
all you have to do is level and you will be able to PvP again, or not allocate skill/level-up points so VL = RL.
it is not insane, you just do not want to have any serious negative consequences for pvpers who are deleveled.

Consequences? Less gold leveling, no access to realms otherwise I would be able to return to ( relics) , Less gear able to be worn. ;) there ARE consequences lol.

I've seen threads where MANY levelers say they dont want to be forced into pvp, It's easy for me to reply and say i don't want to be forced to level ;)

be honest, those consequences are not serious for pvpers, because they do not interfere with pvping, which is what pvpers want to do. "lol" all you want, i do not think anyone will be fooled.

and levelers *are* forced to participate in pvp, so why not force pvpers who get deleveled to relevel?
they even have prestige to make it easier for them.

you just do not want the loss of 22 levels to interfere with you playing the game, that is all. level loss hurts levelers but you do not want it to hurt you anywhere near as much. how is that not selfish and unfair?



Question: When, let's say a level 100 player is de-leveled down to 95, can they still hunt in the same region, or o they need to leave and go back to a level 95 area in order to resume hunting? As far as I know, the level 100 player can resume hunting where they are. If true, double bonus for player and player's guild. That is, quick level up; no XP loss to guild, Guild gains another slew of XP from that player. Sounds like a scam to me (if true). That is, the some mighty guilds are built on reconstituted stam as it were...Not a sermon, just a thought...

#45 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:03

Doug you got point here, I like your idea, all the same it conflicts with lot of things. I think that things would go lot easier if the VL would be removed, and dropping a level would instantly teleport you away from area that is higher than your actual level. Dont know this is hard matter.



Here, here! I second that suggestion! Simple and to the point.

#46 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:07

Sorry I just dont agree with this idea, for these reasons

First the VL was there before the exploit of players deleving to use higher level buffs,,,in fact thats how it was exploited by keeping VL, the cows changed LEVEL UP points to fix that.

Secondly there are 2 sides to every story,,, what did "BWP" do to earn this attention? In my experiance nobody wastes stam hourly hitting someone just because and 99% of the time the alleged "victim"s mouth wrote a check his VL cant cash.

Theres a lot of fancy math there and you will have to dumb it down,,we PvPers are naught but simple pirates

And yes Mae is right, this will make it impossable for someone to hit anyone untill they level again if they are dropped 5 out of VL, Rather than this restore effectiveness of BB or making pvp ladder more dynamic (what does VL have to do with that?) it will simply screw up the whole system,,sorry no

Finally VL is already a punishment since at least in lower levels you remain at the VL for pvp and GvG in which case many times becoming a liability to the guild and yourself by being lower than those who are attacking you but stuck in their range



I agree, make the BB more robust. Currently, a player who has taken out a bounty can continue to be hit by the bountied player, but the player who placed the bounty cannot place another bounty until the first one clears. Simple solution, an "eye for an eye" = "a bounty for a hit -- every time - anytime".

#47 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:15

Currently, a player who has taken out a bounty can continue to be hit by the bountied player, but the player who placed the bounty cannot place another bounty until the first one clears. Simple solution, an "eye for an eye" = "a bounty for a hit -- every time - anytime".



A player on the bounty board ,cannot hit again until their bounty is cleared, its not that complicated. And it's an easy fix.


Or even have a grace period, of say 1 hour in between hits? thats plenty of time to get the bounty cleared... oh... wait a sec ;) it's already that way isn't it?


eye for an eye wont do anything as long as members dont defend their guildies, they are usually hit, again.

#48 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:17

Scum, scum, scum ... oh just thinking about PvPers excluding former and current FS friends, guildmates, and Guns for Hire (Heroes for Hire).

As to OP's op: The formula could effect all FS community at some point to correct one persons problem, so not a good idea. What if PvPer got friend deleveled? Friend would be in same predicament.

As to "help" from PvPers: 1. Paying for protection or fixing xp is too expensive for many in the FS community. 2. The so-called "deserve it" statement is also misleading: if i insult your mother, are you going to pummel me hourly? The correct answer is no since cost of stamina is too precious for real levelers and PvPers. 3. The buffs do not last. All PvPer has to do is wait for buffs to expire.
4. Deleveling usually does no good either because skill points/level up points were not allocated or Gear of PvPer for rl is as powerful as vl.

What person needs is a defense set, guild to have First Strike shrine, and Bounty Tickets. May not work, but at least your fighting.

Scum, scum, scum ... oh still thinking about PvPers excluding former and current FS friends, guildmates, and Guns for Hire (Heroes for Hire).


Agree, most of the "points" offered to protect against PvP are cost prohibitive to most players, so the statements themselves are self-serving and misleading.

#49 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:19

Currently, a player who has taken out a bounty can continue to be hit by the bountied player, but the player who placed the bounty cannot place another bounty until the first one clears. Simple solution, an "eye for an eye" = "a bounty for a hit -- every time - anytime".



A player on the bounty board ,cannot hit again until their bounty is cleared, its not that complicated. And it's an easy fix.


Or even have a grace period, of say 1 hour in between hits? thats plenty of time to get the bounty cleared... oh... wait a sec ;) it's already that way isn't it?



eye for an eye wont do anything as long as members dont defend their guildies, they are usually hit, again.



And there's that self-serving statement...that [delay] only works if the bounty clears quickly. The better defended a player, the longer a bounty will take to clear. So although you are correct about the delay, your insights do not offer help beyond that.

#50 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:24

And there's that self-serving statement...that [delay] only works if the bounty clears quickly. The better defended a player, the longer a bounty will take to clear. So although you are correct about the delay, your insights do not offer help beyond that.



Find someone good enough to clear it? Learn how to beat them, and stomp the bejeezuz out of em ? The placer of the bounty can throw up deflect, to limit the chances of a second hit, while a: said bounty is being cleared, or B: said bounty is bein spanked silly.


If someone wants a bounty cleared, they either A: have to make it worthwhile to the bounty hunters, or B: have a friend clear it.


If someone wants a bounty stomped, they either have to a: hire mercs, b: have guild and friends delevel said attacker of 5 levels.


The board is an instrument of punishment that is placed in the hands of the victim. They have the option to choose how severe the punishment is and when it can happen.

#51 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:38



And there's that self-serving statement...that [delay] only works if the bounty clears quickly. The better defended a player, the longer a bounty will take to clear. So although you are correct about the delay, your insights do not offer help beyond that.



Find someone good enough to clear it? Learn how to beat them, and stomp the bejeezuz out of em ? The placer of the bounty can throw up deflect, to limit the chances of a second hit, while a: said bounty is being cleared, or B: said bounty is bein spanked silly.


If someone wants a bounty cleared, they either A: have to make it worthwhile to the bounty hunters, or B: have a friend clear it.


If someone wants a bounty stomped, they either have to a: hire mercs, b: have guild and friends delevel said attacker of 5 levels.


The board is an instrument of punishment that is placed in the hands of the victim. They have the option to choose how severe the punishment is and when it can happen.


All well and good in word, but not in practice. As I mentioned, I like your suggestion to be able to place as many bounties against the same player if they keep hitting you before the bounty has cleared. (Although, that does become a increasingly expensive burden on the player being hit).

And sure, you can go through the added expense to post high bounties, but how often can the average player, of modest mean, continue to do that -- to include perhaps paying "extra" for the right player to clear the bounty.

Finally, develing isn't really all that effective. A PvPer can lose those levels, then quickly relevel, so no real pain on the PvPer. YES, delveling and BB do work to an extent -- but mostly only on those who happen to stumble upon PvPing without any long terms plans or goals to PvPing.

#52 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 18:49

All well and good in word, but not in practice. As I mentioned, I like your suggestion to be able to place as many bounties against the same player if they keep hitting you before the bounty has cleared. (Although, that does become a increasingly expensive burden on the player being hit).


I never suggested that ;) I'm highly against it. I said they can't be HIT again until the bounty is cleared. But if you insist on making every hit bountyable, then include bounty hits as well. And see how far that goes. ( just sayin, two sides to everything)


And sure, you can go through the added expense to post high bounties, but how often can the average player, of modest mean, continue to do that -- to include perhaps paying "extra" for the right player to clear the bounty.


Guild, allies, friends, are better then any amount of gold or fsp in this game. Community, family, guild..etc is what counts.

Finally, develing isn't really all that effective. A PvPer can lose those levels, then quickly relevel, so no real pain on the PvPer. YES, delveling and BB do work to an extent -- but mostly only on those who happen to stumble upon PvPing without any long terms plans or goals to PvPing.


Who can quickly relevel? low levels? sure, higher ups cant LOL. You do realize the stam per level right? Losing levels does hurt ;) Just some dont mind pain in this game, and adapt to using other gear, etc.



#53 fs_baracuda23

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:02

the VL is somewhat useless now with the full player reset. You simply reset all your points,replace the skill points,do not replace all the level up points,and *presto* you can be deleveled while still using your high level skills.And if i'm not mistaken you can still wear high level gear(as long as you dont take it off). Or simply do not place any level up points when you get them,works just the same. Either way,since the purpose of the VL is now compromised,why not change it some?

#54 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:04

the VL is somewhat useless now with the full player reset. You simply reset all your points,replace the skill points,do not replace all the level up points,and *presto* you can be deleveled while still using your high level skills.And if i'm not mistaken you can still wear high level gear(as long as you dont take it off). Or simply do not place any level up points when you get them,works just the same. Either way,since the purpose of the VL is now compromised,why not change it some?



You need to place level points to get skill points :)


If you VL drops below a level of buff you have, you cannot cast that buff.


That stats of gear above your AL do not count or contribute to your character, Yes you might be able to throw on a combat set with the gear youve been deleveled out of, but it doesnt contribute to your stats.

#55 morderme

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:14



All well and good in word, but not in practice. As I mentioned, I like your suggestion to be able to place as many bounties against the same player if they keep hitting you before the bounty has cleared. (Although, that does become a increasingly expensive burden on the player being hit).


I never suggested that ;) I'm highly against it. I said they can't be HIT again until the bounty is cleared. But if you insist on making every hit bountyable, then include bounty hits as well. And see how far that goes. ( just sayin, two sides to everything)

Actually, isn't that the way it is now? That is, if I am clearing one or more bounties, then the player can place a bounty on any/all who are attempting to clear the bounty.

And sure, you can go through the added expense to post high bounties, but how often can the average player, of modest mean, continue to do that -- to include perhaps paying "extra" for the right player to clear the bounty.


Guild, allies, friends, are better then any amount of gold or fsp in this game. Community, family, guild..etc is what counts.

Sure, when your circle of friends/players/guild mates is large enough. Most modetly sized guilds do not have the volume of players to be able to do as you suggest.

Finally, develing isn't really all that effective. A PvPer can lose those levels, then quickly relevel, so no real pain on the PvPer. YES, delveling and BB do work to an extent -- but mostly only on those who happen to stumble upon PvPing without any long terms plans or goals to PvPing.


Who can quickly relevel? low levels? sure, higher ups cant LOL. You do realize the stam per level right? Losing levels does hurt ;) Just some dont mind pain in this game, and adapt to using other gear, etc.


You might have me there, since I do not rely on stealing gold from others. That is, if I am delveled in one area, can I hunt in that area anyway -- or am I forced to retreat to an area of the level I was delveled to? If not, a level 100 player in a level 110 area is likely to enjoy great bumps in XP (and gold) for being able to hunt in an area many levels above their current level. And this does not even address the benefit the Guild gets from the player gaining all that XP again.

#56 aryann

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:20

u can remain in higher lvl area..should b changed to having to go back most will stay in area with easily killed creature and lvl 20 lvls they lost right there and then cry lvling is boring and easy

#57 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:31

Actually, isn't that the way it is now? That is, if I am clearing one or more bounties, then the player can place a bounty on any/all who are attempting to clear the bounty.



What i meant is that if each off the board hit can be bountied ( ie: lets say i hit you 5 hours in a row.. and you bounty me 5 times) Then make every bounty kill bountyable ;) ie: you clear my bounty ( 10 bounty kills/ hits), i can place 10 bounties. Then watch the mayhem ensue ;) thats what i was saying.

You might have me there, since I do not rely on stealing gold from others. That is, if I am delveled in one area, can I hunt in that area anyway -- or am I forced to retreat to an area of the level I was delveled to? If not, a level 100 player in a level 110 area is likely to enjoy great bumps in XP (and gold) for being able to hunt in an area many levels above their current level. And this does not even address the benefit the Guild gets from the player gaining all that XP again.



Nope, dont have to retreat to anywhere. If you do leave tho you cant go back ( if your AL is below the area) A guild gets additional xp every time a player levels and/or relevels. Good for them if it matters to them. I dont see how its unfair? If someone doesnt like it, they could go and lose levels and do the same? I know some players who do this many times on purpose in this game, out of boredom, or a desire to bump their guild xp up.

#58 aryann

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:34

wow ive heard it all...doesnt more xp come with higher the lvl? does that make sense youll gain more xp by deleveling to lvl? hmmmm

#59 Maehdros

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:44

wow ive heard it all...doesnt more xp come with higher the lvl? does that make sense youll gain more xp by deleveling to lvl? hmmmm



your guild gains more xp every time you hunt, yep. And ideally, if you lose levels and relevel alot, your going to have alot of guild xp.

#60 aryann

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:45

but more if u are higher lvl :wink: so deleveling to gain guild more xp really makes 0 sense 8) im evidence of this...700-800 lvls gained while in current guild...yet guys have double my guild xp...so your statment is false better to b hi lvl to gain guild xp then delevel to lvl...2+2 isnt 5 man come on thought u are some big # cruncher


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