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RJEM's Sink a Billion Challenge


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#21 Kontiki

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 01:29

This sounds like fun :twisted:

#22 fs_jackiet

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 01:42

http://imageshack.us/f/607/fallenswordv20014bmassi.png/

well, thats a little bit of gold sunk:)


Good start, keep it going. It might be worth keeping a running total in your post so everyone can see who's doing well for the cause!


added:) also should I remove the names of the players I hit? IDK to much about the rules of the forum.

#23 Placeboo

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 02:51

If i send my bank to hoof do i win fallensword?

#24 ScarletTestAce

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:03

If i send my bank to hoof do i win fallensword?



no but if you kill hooftest then I'll send u all my fsps....its in the 4 digit range atm..though not all of it is mine..but who cares :twisted:

#25 evilbry

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:05

If i send my bank to hoof do i win fallensword?



no but if you kill hooftest then I'll send u all my fsps....its in the 4 digit range atm..though not all of it is mine..but who cares :twisted:

Hooftest is easy to beat, but as it's a test char, you can't attack it.

INFORMATION
It is not possible to attack a test character.


#26 ScarletTestAce

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:14

If i send my bank to hoof do i win fallensword?



no but if you kill hooftest then I'll send u all my fsps....its in the 4 digit range atm..though not all of it is mine..but who cares :twisted:

Hooftest is easy to beat, but as it's a test char, you can't attack it.

INFORMATION
It is not possible to attack a test character.



:).......darn them

#27 Sustortias

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:56

I'll give a prize of 50 zillion dots for anybody who can raise and keep raised the MP price to over half a million gold per dot LOL!

(j/k)

I just wanted to see how a politician feels! :P

Oh wait... scratch that, a politician wouldnt offer a prize! dammit!

Ignition_Honda_410x200_zps03cc040c.png


#28 fs_auronxx

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:05

If i send my bank to hoof do i win fallensword?

Your gold isn't a part of the FS economy right now. So, if it's sitting in your bank, or if it's sunk, either way it doesn't make contact with any other FS player, and so it can't have an affect on the cost of FSP.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think you've already done your part to make the price of FSP lower by refusing to trade your gold for it.

So, I guess my question now is...do we really need to sink our gold? Couldn't holding onto it - rather than throwing it away to HCS - accomplish the same thing?

#29 fs_auronxx

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:10

Most Creative Method of Sinking Gold (as judged by me): 10 FSP

My gold sink

http://goo.gl/v2KDM

I wins? :P

#30 fs_auronxx

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:07

Okay, last post, and then I have to go to bed.

The price of FSP goes up because of two things:

1) people make gold-into-FSP 'requests' at a slightly faster rate than people sell the FSP-into-gold (except during LE events, where the opposite is true, and, subsequently, FSP prices fall), and

2) when people make their gold-into-FSP 'requests', they tend to place their requests at a higher rate than the current highest rate, in order to get rid of the gold faster.

So the price of FSP in the Marketplace does a dance like this:

up
up
up
down
up
down
up
up
down
up
up
up
down
down
etc etc etc -- there are more "ups" than there are "downs"


So, I can't help thinking that the solution to high FSP prices is ridiculously simple: never make a request for more gold than the guy at the top, and instead always make it for lower.

This gets rid of the "ups" altogether - leaving only "downs".


...Am I wrong? It feels like it can't be right - though, not for any reason that I can think of, and maybe only because I can't believe the solution is so simple.

#31 fs_cloudstryf

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:40

Things

The main reason prices have gone up is because there is more gold in the game altogether. Even if there are fewer people playing the game now than there were at previous times in FS' lifetime, there are more efficient and effective ways to hunt, gain stamina, save stamina all of which have increased the amount of gold coming in. While players with billions of gold keeping it banked instead of flooding the mp is a small help, the greater issue of a lack of ways to get rid of the gold is the heart of the problem.

#32 RJEM

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:42

Okay, last post, and then I have to go to bed.

The price of FSP goes up because of two things:

1) people make gold-into-FSP 'requests' at a slightly faster rate than people sell the FSP-into-gold (except during LE events, where the opposite is true, and, subsequently, FSP prices fall), and

2) when people make their gold-into-FSP 'requests', they tend to place their requests at a higher rate than the current highest rate, in order to get rid of the gold faster.

So the price of FSP in the Marketplace does a dance like this:

up
up
up
down
up
down
up
up
down
up
up
up
down
down
etc etc etc -- there are more "ups" than there are "downs"


So, I can't help thinking that the solution to high FSP prices is ridiculously simple: never make a request for more gold than the guy at the top, and instead always make it for lower.

This gets rid of the "ups" altogether - leaving only "downs".


...Am I wrong? It feels like it can't be right - though, not for any reason that I can think of, and maybe only because I can't believe the solution is so simple.


Principle: Fine, I guess.
Reality: People need to sell their gold to keep it safe, or at least have the perception they do. They also may want FSP 'right now' so list higher anyway. Finally, the buyer here has the power - if you list low and noone thinks it beneficial or necessary to sell FSP for that amount then it's simple - noone will sell!

added:) also should I remove the names of the players I hit? IDK to much about the rules of the forum.


Please do - I'd like this up and running longer term and any rule violations might hinder that :) Keep up the hits though, you're going to sink a fair amount at this rate.

If i send my bank to hoof do i win fallensword?


Tough one - I'd rather gold was irrecoverably removed rather than banked in a guild or personal bank. I guess the question would be if players hit hoof and got some of it back, would it be sunk? Actually, 75% of the gold previously out of action in your bank is now back in active accounts! Only 25% would be sunk.

So - send it over, let the free for all commence, but don't hold out hopes that it will all get sunk. Sending it to Hooftest (if that's possible) might count, as that gold could not be recovered if the character is not attackable.

So, I guess my question now is...do we really need to sink our gold? Couldn't holding onto it - rather than throwing it away to HCS - accomplish the same thing?


It could short term - but long term the gold is always there and could flood back in at any point when the player deemed it favourable or necessary to do so. Let's sink it, not store it away :)

#33 Ringhal

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 10:15

Here's my first one: 200k bid on Heartfelt Stew
Posted Image

#34 RJEM

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 10:41

Here's my first one: 200k bid on Heartfelt Stew
Posted Image


I like the signature :)

#35 fs_auronxx

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 16:56

Principle: Fine, I guess.


I really can't help but think that this is more than just an "I guess" solution - because it directly addresses the actual cause of FSP price increases.

And that actual cause is every request made that is higher than the previously highest request. Literally...that's it. If everyone, ever, decided to make requests at exactly 150,000 gold - no more, no less - then guess what the price of FSP would be? 150k! But people don't want to do that, because doing so puts your request at the bottom of the list, so then the person puts their request at 150,001 to be at the top of the list...and the inflation starts.

Having less gold in the game does not directly affect FSP prices. Using my example (if everyone made their requests at exactly 150,000 gold), the price is what the price is, completely regardless of how much gold exists in the game.

But, of course, there's very little possibility of getting ever player in the game to make requests at the exact same price, so let's discuss the reality:

Reality: People need to sell their gold to keep it safe, or at least have the perception they do.


After my hunts, I put on my offline DEF set right away. Then I place my Marketplace requests. I count down 10-ish FSP from the top, then put in my price just below that guy. In other words, 10 FSP have to be purchased above me before I get to the top of the list. This puts me, on average, at about the 5th guy on the list.

In the amount of time it takes for that to occur - while I've got my DEF set on and most hunting buffs still lingering - I have never, not once, been a target of PvP. This amount of time is an hour at most.

-----

Maybe I'm braver than most, and putting in a request so far down the list after a hunt is too much to ask of every player. But, if they at the very least always make themselves second on the list, it would help.

I think this is very possible to achieve, and just needs to be communicated to people.

They also may want FSP 'right now' so list higher anyway.

Eh...I can't think of many examples of when there's an FSP "emergency" where you just can't wait.

There was a recent time where I had 0 FSP, and wanted to help out a guildmate who was sitting on an SE by posting it for him in the FS Box, and so I bought an FSP 'right now' at a high gold price.

But this was just 1 FSP, and a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence.

Maybe there are other reasons for it that other players have that I don't think of, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't see "emergency" FSP purchases being frequent enough or in large enough quantities to cause a problem.

Finally, the buyer here has the power - if you list low and noone thinks it beneficial or necessary to sell FSP for that amount then it's simple - noone will sell!


Agreed - I don't expect my method to get the price down to 50k. At some point, those with the FSP looking to buy gold will look at the prices and say, "ew, that's too little gold...I'm going to wait until the price goes up before I sell."

That hesitation can then create FSP price increase. Think about the Marketplace in SS2 - I don't use my method there. The rate at which people sell FC for credits is incredibly slow. The only way I have any hope of selling my credits for FC is by going in higher than the highest guy. If I were to use my method and make a request at second on the list, I run the very real risk of the request expiring before anyone takes it. So that's why I never do that.

So, you're right that the buyers do have power, but so do the sellers, they just don't use it (that's my whole premise). If they did, the result would be lower prices. Only then after the prices lower would the buyers use their power - and what we should end up with is equal and opposite forces, creating a balanced price somewhere much lower than it is now, and an end to the slow-but-steady inflation.

entire motivation behind making this post


I'm not trying to poop on what you're doing. I want exactly what you want, and I admire the effort (and FSP) you've taken to try to achieve it. I also admire your mathematical analyses in general.

I'm just not 100% convinced that gold sinking is the best way to achieve that goal. You're literally asking people to throw away their gold, and that's fine (and is, in fact, an investment) if it works. But if it doesn't....

#36 MummRa

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 20:02

I'm going to put this into a couple of the gold sink threads. I love the idea of a guild arena a group of say 3 guild members use combined stats in an arena against other guilds. Items go to guild, tagged maybe make RP tourneys(with huge entry fees) special group combat moves. All other aspects of arena are same the way stats are calculated and gear restrictions everything.

#37 Scathian

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 00:29

http://imageshack.us...2/sunkgold.png/
gold sunk from gold hits - 452,042

Between 2 days of pvp ladder hits (both incoming and outgoing), and a weeks worth of repair costs and small potions bought I have sank 189,674 gold

http://imageshack.us...s/15/sunk2.png/
410,000 on a potion

http://imageshack.us.../803/sunk3.png/
1,804,899 sunk on gold hits

sorry I don't have a screen shot for this, I was pressed for time to get rid of the gold I had on hand.
1,300,800 gold sunk from doing the 5th forge on a pair of Nuryns Gemmed Gloves

#38 fs_andypearce

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 01:18

Stuff


End of the day while it seems ok in logic, practically it will never happen, with a game of tens of thousands of players, there will always be people who think wow...the MP is half of what it was before, I should sell all my gold and make double, and others trying to compete to make profit while it is low too.

#39 RJEM

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:26

I'll be doing a big sink event later tonight - keep your eyes peeled :)

The issue with any 'logical' solution is that people in general are greedy and impatient - it's been shown! - and that if the price stays below a certain level whilst the supply of FSP declines then the fundamental balance is lost.

Trying to convince the whole population to 'play nice' is not going to happen so I've taken the alternative approach of getting a few people to have a bit of fun. I want to rid the game of 2 billion gold - so if 100 players get involved and commit to 20 million sunk each we should be fine.

It's a big ask, and does rely on generosity, but I hope we can make a difference.

#40 boeffie

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 12:55

Stuff


End of the day while it seems ok in logic, practically it will never happen, with a game of tens of thousands of players, there will always be people who think wow...the MP is half of what it was before, I should sell all my gold and make double, and others trying to compete to make profit while it is low too.


In principle, the idea of posting lower than the above would ensure people will sell their fsp faster as the gold they would get for it will only go down.

It's a bit like Dutch auctions, going down rather than up.

Problem is there has to be bottom line, so in reality, it would work for a very short time till everyone hits that, so you'd end up with a fixed goldprice.

Go to upgrades. :)


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