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FS,HCS and small guilds


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#1 oucho

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:14

I"m not really sure how to say this so :

I was drafted as founder of a small guild at around level 330 and know how hard it is to recruit and keep players, etc. They want something bigger and better moving on, making it a constant battle and everyone knows how much stam it takes buffing a person with max of 600 stam vice 6000 or 60,000. Once a month to twice a day, a Small guilds struggle in so many ways, no relics, storage space, low funds, can't afford expensive potions, buffs, not a real chance at titan drops among other things. I feel this discourages so many players to the point of quitting the game!! ( to help one you have to help the other ) noobs/smallguilds
And this hurts the game as a whole.

the larger guilds have earned their spot , don't get me wrong, and have 1 to 4 relics [for gains] ample storage, titan and other hard to get epics [best damage, extra stam], best gear, gold, fsp, etc and only except a select few into their ranks for a price usually.
{Most guilds have a min. join level, sm/med/large} lvl 1-10,eh
'''''Can't we come up with something to assist lower level guilds/players that MIGHT stop the decline in active fs players?'''''


‘’To admin’’ if you have read, please respond to this topic; The game has changed in so many ways in 5 years that an adjustment is need to encourage noobs to stay.
( to help noobs you have to help lower guilds)

Look at the market place for example; It cost a guild and a ‘noob’ 4 times as much for upgrades. 200+k vice 50k per fsp!
( I know the mp runs its self, But maybe upgrades could be on a graduated scale by level) + increasing initial bp has been suggested

So many guilds that;
IF a noob makes it to one, the upgrades,gear, activity and leadership is weak . Low activity/support etc. is NOT a good first impression
In the beginning new members were constant, competition was high and some guilds excelled as a group and were near 100 strong. They would accept a friend or level 1 with little consequence. They were all low levels! Now, most guilds have a minimum join level, 20-40 strong is pushing the estimate, and below the top 100, 5-10 active ‘’We are spread to thin.’’

Competition always helps; BUT look at the ''top rated 250 list'' no chance at #1 or 100 on most categories.

(Maybe do like high schools, and break it up now in; A, AA, AAA categories kind of like the pvp range? Using join dates, guild exp or whatever best fits as division points for each? Now you have revitalized the competition on 3 maybe 4 tiers :) the top tier ,well, most are way out there.

gvg farming was mentioned as a ''thorn'' for smaller guilds not having the expensive gear/buffs to fight off the larger aggressor!
(gvging within your tier would help this:) level the playing field a bit

(Limit guilds in game, delete or store inactive ones, have a min level to start one, as space is available, maybe allow mergers with upgrades as stated earlier. Basically try to get guilds that are guilds, with the possibility of 7-8 members being on line for support, ie groups, buffs,chat, etc.) Even some elites require a good group!

The lower level guilds get the noobs; (But are they actively recruited/taken care of?)
(Something to entice guilds to; Accept, train, and buff would help the discouragement of all.)
You cows offer extra fsp on offers and ''entice us with a potion to donate. So you got the know how. Some sales need a little push :)

(example) low level player feels he's not getting the support when asking for buffs/ higher levels think they have to buff to much --- options are 'quit or move' this causes more frustration for those left behind trying to hold a guild together. Many noobs are left to die on the vine because they amplify all these issues

There have been several issues/ideas/suggestions generated throughout the thread. If it's not listed here doesn't mean it's not good It is hard to recommend a course of action without all the facts/stats.

Anyway - recommendations:Pulled from Belaric post, as they have been mentioned a lot :) Small guilds are the lifeblood of this game!!!

The A/AA/AAA ranking system would rock in my opinion - currently the top whatever ladders are unattainable for new players - having entry or time or level based ladders would wildly increase the addiction quotient of the game - and we need that.

New players need 10 BP slots. Everyone in game with less than that gets an upgrade. Those of us with more already? We are already winning - we need no more help.

Get a new tutorial for the game and streamline the opening content - from personal experience I know the game has lost promising players who could not be bothered waiting 10 hours to regain stam to get out of a dead end. You may say - screw them - quitters! We need less quitters.

To second Luisspammer - more coders are required. This game has/always been too reliant on one coder. Problems are never reacted to quickly enough.



As the old players die off, what's gonna be left

FOOD FOR THOUGHT 

#2 sweetlou

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:09

Guild size max is way to large! First thing I noticed when I started playing nearly 4 years ago. 50 should be the max like it was in SS, alas we saw what happened there, even if size had nothing to do with it's downfall.

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#3 oucho

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:30

Guild size max is way to large! First thing I noticed when I started playing nearly 4 years ago. 50 should be the max like it was in SS, alas we saw what happened there, even if size had nothing to do with it's downfall.



OK, but that is something that can't be fixed/changed at this point.And not having support on line for groups,buffs chat, etc. is not a motivator! [ but they could make a max # of guild spots]. and delete inactive ones for x number of months. We are spread to thin. But there has to be something that would keep lower level players/ guilds from giving up"

I know grim wrote '''I ain't gonna hand you a keyboard with a 'WIN' key.''' , but with fewer and fewer hands reaching for it you might put it a little closer so to speak.
We have to nurture or young, not eat them. And offer something to the poor/weak that will make them 'want to stay and develop their character.'
This need to be something MAYBE available only at lower level guilds

For example;
1. bonus lost when guild reaches say top 50-100.
2. and/or non relic bonus
3.bonus for guilds with less than ''say 10 players over lvl 500.
4. anything to level the field some and stop the decay

I don't know , that's why i asked for input/thoughts on it and ty, your 1 of 16 who even posted:(

#4 fs_j4ckoliver

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:45

i agree with you entirely, we have new players coming in at level 1-10, then when get to 40 have either stopped playing as others in better guilds are mashing them, or move on to a much better guild as a small guild cannot offer them everything

#5 Maehdros

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:49

a small guild cannot offer them everything



Too many want everything for nothing ;) thats the problem. Contributing, helping grow the guild, dealing through the struggles up and downs etc. Relics aren;t needed anymore imo so having them or not is irrelevant.Players grow to expect everything handed on a plate, and when it isn't they go somewhere where it is.

#6 doomlord

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:54

Give a bonus to the guild that has atleast 10 ppl who have joined the game in the last 6 months.
Maybe a +1 stam gain or +200 xp gain.

#7 oucho

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 13:03

a small guild cannot offer them everything



Too many want everything for nothing ;) thats the problem. Contributing, helping grow the guild, dealing through the struggles up and downs etc. Relics aren;t needed anymore imo so having them or not is irrelevant.Players grow to expect everything handed on a plate, and when it isn't they go somewhere where it is.


The problem is the decaying, and what's to be done to stop it?

And for: ''Relics aren;t needed anymore imo'' -- May be true, if you can afford the big potions/buffs/ff gear. All the large guilds go to a bunch of trouble, spend tons of stam in travel and gold empowering for them not to be worth it.

The point is they are not staying so even if; ''Too many want everything for nothing ;)'' something is needed to make them want to!

#8 hbklives

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 13:33

Eh, while some of this is true. My guild started off very small, but has grown in the past few weeks. We've had recruits who have just started the game, but they stayed.. Because you help them understand, you talk to them and you make them your own. They get very loyal and defensive about the guild they grew up in. It's VERY hard recruiting, but if you take time out everyday to talk to people and get to know them, they'd be more likely to join and be loyal.

I wish you good luck with your guild though, I've been there(kinda still am, lol). :)

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#9 oucho

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 13:44

Eh, while some of this is true. My guild started off very small, but has grown in the past few weeks. We've had recruits who have just started the game, but they stayed.. Because you help them understand, you talk to them and you make them your own. They get very loyal and defensive about the guild they grew up in. It's VERY hard recruiting, but if you take time out everyday to talk to people and get to know them, they'd be more likely to join and be loyal.

I wish you good luck with your guild though, I've been there(kinda still am, lol). :)


There are exceptions to everything; only time will tell [ check back in 6 months]

The fact is fs is decaying and noobs are not staying and/or bringing friends in

Third, I'm in a large guild so it's not about me.

#10 fs_deadlystrk

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 13:52

FS is decaying long time ago.. and it got nothing to do with guilds.

the only issue with guilds are the max members which as luis said is way 2 high.

#11 dowuones

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 14:12

Maybe they could reduce the max numer of players per guild, 1 spot evey 2 weeks, so that you still can have more players than the limit (you cant force a guild to kick their members if they dont want to), but you cant recruit until you are under the limit (probably with some sort of compensation for those who already bought the upgrades). And you continue 1 spot at the time until the new max (100? 90? 80? ..50? i dont know).
More active guilds could help the game a little bit. But its all useless if the players base doesnt grow.
But all the efforts should go towards new players, thats all the game needs.
Every udate, every event, every improvement should be focused on new players.
If a level 1,000+ player quits the game but you have 2, 5, 10 new players that will stay, the game will be a better game.

#12 lordthade

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 14:58

I firmly believe ANY guild with an active and focused founder can do well. The smaller guilds, also. Their biggest problem is the perhaps the grinding-down effect a smallish guild will experience from being a GvG farm. I had a hard time keeping people active and trying when every time they logged on it was 2-3 pages of defeats. The GvG rate needs to be nerfed, in my opinion, but that may be a topic for another thread.

That said, I don't think smaller guilds need much more.

The gear for PvP/GvG is too expensive, but the hunting gear sets are nicely cheap and there are plenty of ways to earn points without donating. The specials section of the AH-- if properly monitored-- can yield plenty of good potions well under expected prices. You can only tell people what they have to do, however. The will to actually do it must be within them.

A lot of those "small guilds" are single-player guilds just wanting to be left alone. Should they get a boost? They can build structures the guild-less don't have.


How about an "adopt-a-smaller-guild" pledge drive? What the smaller guilds need, REALLY, is support and mentoring from a larger guild. If we really want to keep those smaller guilds around maybe the bigger guilds should pitch in and adopt a guild for a while to help out. You can merely pledge PvP support, or perhaps offer some gold/FSPs to help them upgrade over time, or maybe just buff and offer hunting tips. It might actually be fun for those bigger guilds. :mrgreen:

#13 hbklives

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 15:04

How about an "adopt-a-smaller-guild" pledge drive? What the smaller guilds need, REALLY, is support and mentoring from a larger guild. If we really want to keep those smaller guilds around maybe the bigger guilds should pitch in and adopt a guild for a while to help out. You can merely pledge PvP support, or perhaps offer some gold/FSPs to help them upgrade over time, or maybe just buff and offer hunting tips. It might actually be fun for those bigger guilds. :mrgreen:


I don't think too many bigger guilds would go for that, they have enough on their hands..

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#14 spike567

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 15:11

I firmly believe ANY guild with an active and focused founder can do well. The smaller guilds, also. Their biggest problem is the perhaps the grinding-down effect a smallish guild will experience from being a GvG farm. I had a hard time keeping people active and trying when every time they logged on it was 2-3 pages of defeats. The GvG rate needs to be nerfed, in my opinion, but that may be a topic for another thread.

That said, I don't think smaller guilds need much more.

The gear for PvP/GvG is too expensive, but the hunting gear sets are nicely cheap and there are plenty of ways to earn points without donating. The specials section of the AH-- if properly monitored-- can yield plenty of good potions well under expected prices. You can only tell people what they have to do, however. The will to actually do it must be within them.

A lot of those "small guilds" are single-player guilds just wanting to be left alone. Should they get a boost? They can build structures the guild-less don't have.


How about an "adopt-a-smaller-guild" pledge drive? What the smaller guilds need, REALLY, is support and mentoring from a larger guild. If we really want to keep those smaller guilds around maybe the bigger guilds should pitch in and adopt a guild for a while to help out. You can merely pledge PvP support, or perhaps offer some gold/FSPs to help them upgrade over time, or maybe just buff and offer hunting tips. It might actually be fun for those bigger guilds. :mrgreen:


I agree with what you say. It is fairly easy to run a small guild, but people need to know how to and give the commitment. i doubt adopt a smaller guild pledge would work, they probably have a lot to handle with their larger guilds :P

#15 oucho

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 00:05

I firmly believe ANY guild with an active and focused founder can do well. The smaller guilds, also. Their biggest problem is the perhaps the grinding-down effect a smallish guild will experience from being a GvG farm. I had a hard time keeping people active and trying when every time they logged on it was 2-3 pages of defeats. The GvG rate needs to be nerfed, in my opinion, but that may be a topic for another thread.

That said, I don't think smaller guilds need much more.

The gear for PvP/GvG is too expensive, but the hunting gear sets are nicely cheap and there are plenty of ways to earn points without donating. The specials section of the AH-- if properly monitored-- can yield plenty of good potions well under expected prices. You can only tell people what they have to do, however. The will to actually do it must be within them.

A lot of those "small guilds" are single-player guilds just wanting to be left alone. Should they get a boost? They can build structures the guild-less don't have.


How about an "adopt-a-smaller-guild" pledge drive? What the smaller guilds need, REALLY, is support and mentoring from a larger guild. If we really want to keep those smaller guilds around maybe the bigger guilds should pitch in and adopt a guild for a while to help out. You can merely pledge PvP support, or perhaps offer some gold/FSPs to help them upgrade over time, or maybe just buff and offer hunting tips. It might actually be fun for those bigger guilds. :mrgreen:


First; If being a gvg farm is an issue - Why not have and opt in/out for like ''7 day min.'' for guilds not in the top 100 or whatever?

2nd; on this, '''I firmly believe ANY guild with an active and focused founder can do well.''' if so, they must not be enough around because '''we continue to decay.'''


3rd; on ''I don't think smaller guilds need much more.'' refer to #2, We need something to keep players active who can't/won't get in a larger guild period.. Even in the top 250 guilds there are thousands of brown dots, inactive players

On 1 man guilds or a small groups, not recruiting. - i don't know what to say about that because i'm not sure what the offer/answer is. We want to promote activity/ teamwork,loyalty not discourage it by offering something for not doing this

#16 thering66

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 00:59

I agree its difficult to keep players during early lvls but its not just the guild. the over all set-up for early lvls is complicated as heck. too many maps too many location etc. its all so confusing. unlike when your lvl is higher the maps are usually 1lvl=1map and moving in one direction(one stair case up).

#17 3JS

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:13

On 1 man guilds or a small groups, not recruiting. - i don't know what to say about that because i'm not sure what the offer/answer is. We want to promote activity/ teamwork,loyalty not discourage it by offering something for not doing this


While you may have good intentions, I doubt that any of the solo players out there want anything extra. I know I don't. Like someone said earlier, I just want to be left alone. I don't care to join any other guilds, not because I'm "anti-teamwork", but because I like it this way. I like the challenge that being solo represents. I don't have a big guild full of big players giving me arena gear, so every win is an accomplishment. Same way if I place in the top 5 of a titan hunt.

Players have brought up a few other points that I'd like to comment on as well.

You absolutely, positively, do not need to hold a relic to be successful. One of the most influential players in the games history (phool) never held a relic, and in his time was one of the top players. That was even back before the game got dumbed down.

Guilds are about 2X too big. I've been in FFS, so I have "big guild knowledge", so to speak. There is nothing wrong with those guys and gals over there, the only problem I ever had was that you tend to blend into the background in a large guild like that.

Back to the topic at hand, I have no idea how to retain players. Almost every aspect of the game, no matter if it's been around forever or if it's brand new, is controlled by a select few. If you aren't one of "them", you can only hope to be competitive, even if you know you can't win. No matter how much I'd like to win a titan, I'm not naive. I know I can never beat FFS, or rise against, or whoever else has the organization to win one. My hope is that I can get enough kills to make the top 5.

Basically, all this rambling means 1 thing. If you have realistic goals, you will do well in the game. People want everything, but don't want to take the time and put in the effort to achieve it.

My goal for my solo guild is to crack the top 100, not the top 10. One day I'll get there, but I know it's going to take time.

#18 lordthade

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 06:10

So are we talking about "game decay" or are we talking about helping small guilds? While I agree there's some overlap, we're really talking about different things.

#19 Khanate

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:30

You absolutely, positively, do not need to hold a relic to be successful. One of the most influential players in the games history (phool) never held a relic, and in his time was one of the top players. That was even back before the game got dumbed down.


Phool quit when the relic update came out, so it is only natural he never really played with relics. But even then he had been a very vocal opponent of the relic changes during the 2-3 weeks he was still here after that update.

There are a variety of reasons why small guild have troubles and why new players don't stick around. One of them is how terrible the "default account" is; 3 backpack slots, 500 stamina and most likely messed up stats do not make anyone want to continue playing. Upgrading this to a more reasonable amount such as 10 bp splots and 2000 stamina and a free reset at level 50 would go a long way towards keeping people around by giving them hope that this game can somewhat be played for free in the current economy of the game. Right now it's "donate or get the fuck out" pretty much:

1) Having to hunt 2.5 times a day to spend your stamina is ludicrous.

2) Making guilds choose either to own a set per potential member is a particular range or to have members go back to the store 3 times to be able to swap all 9 pieces is not particularly enticing.

Free players are part of the landscape of a free MMORPG and help keep donating players around. Even guilds full of free players donate plenty of money to keep their guild going, someone is paying for equip and guild upgrades.

But then again, this has been mentioned plenty of times often and the "solutions" have been titans and overpowered relics (which have thankfully been nerfed to a respectable level). The more a game cathers to its high-spenders, the more detrimental it is towards its non-spenders hence the high turnover of new players.

#20 Khanate

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:00

Online: 674. I think that says everything about how many people are joining the game. :roll:


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