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FS,HCS and small guilds


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#21 oucho

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:18

So are we talking about "game decay" or are we talking about helping small guilds? While I agree there's some overlap, we're really talking about different things.


I guess a little of both since ''some overlap''' is a lot. new players hopefully play long enough to get in a guild. and it will be a small one with all the problems/challenges listed in my first post.

The majority of the decay starts here :(

#22 boeffie

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 13:09

Players Online 757 Time 12:51 Date 12/Dec/2011

All of it is a moot point.
Last bug control was disastrous, and has made more people leave.
Which means, less activity for people like inventors.
Which means, less possibility for farmers, so less low levels developing their chars.
Which means, those ppl will have to hunt rather than farm, need buffs, difficult in small guilds, will look elsewhere.
Which means, those active in small guilds, will look for activity, find none, go to bigger guilds.
Which means, smaller guilds even less activity, those who do not want to/can't go to bigger anonymous guilds will show up less
Means less targets for pvpers
Means more targets for 'GvG' guilds, those still left in small guilds get fed up being hit by guilds with no targets, move out, find same elsewhere

spiral much?

waiting to see after Xmas

#23 Arnagast

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 14:49

I, m not really sure how to say this so :

I was drafted as founder of a small guild at around level 330 and know how hard it is to recruit and keep players, etc. They want something bigger and better moving on, making it a constant battle and everyone knows how much stam it takes buffing a person with max of 600 stam vice 6000 or 60,000. Once a month to twice a day a Small guilds struggle in so many ways, no relics, storage space, low funds, can't afford expensive potions, buffs, not a real chance at titan drops among other things. I feel this discourages so many players to the point of quitting the game!!
And this hurts the game as a whole.

the larger guilds have earned their spot , don't get me wrong and have 1 to 4 relics [for gains] ample storage, titan and other hard to get epics [best damage, extra stam], best gear, gold, fsp etc and only except a select few into their ranks for a price usually.

'''''Can't we come up with something to assist lower level guilds/players that MIGHT stop the decline in active fs players?'''''


I suggested, and was shot down on something extra for the loyalty medal Poll: [ Guild loyality medals bonus] as it would cost you to jump guilds and give extra bonus to small guilds that don't have relics,epics, etc. [The large guilds gain little,lol ,they have it all anyway]

So, maybe a medal bonus is not the answer. ''What is?''


Kind of agree to some point with you.

Recruiting is tricky because we have done this (as a small guild) in the past and tend to end up with, as you say... people who move on to bigger/better guilds: why they don't want to stick around and help a small guild is beyond me. Shallow i think maybe a word but thats their choice.

Buffing for me has always been a sore point because most people that join us just start begging for buffs and expect it as soon as they login and that annoys most members as we get fedup with it... 1: its are stamina which we need to hunt with and 2: you kind of wouldn't mind so much if they stuck around instead of moving on to bigger guilds or just quitting the game. Of course this is were a bigger guild would help out more as there are more people to share the load of buffing. I could only suggest here that small guilds could do with a non-pc to buff members/ or where members could go to get buffs - like a guild mage for buffing.

You mention Relics but we don't have any as a small guild and we manage fine without them, so i can't agree with that one.

Storage space i can agree with as the cost is too expensive for a small guild and this is where members get fed-up too, you come online to find someone has filled your backpack up with guild gear, this frustrates people hugely.

Low funds, im not sure on because we manage ok with just four active members. Though some donate more than others, would like to see a 100% tax for some members that are shall we say tight. In general as long as people donate something we manage - just don't get to many structures and don't hire mercs left right and centre. Manage your funds accordingly.

Titan hunting as a small guild is tricky, i would have to be honest and say most find it frustrating and give up but i have seen this happen whether your in a small guild or in a big guild... kind of comes down to if you like that aspect so much you will join a Titan hunting guild. As a small guild it will just take a long time though i find - we still haven't got one titan item yet if that makes you feel better :).

Overall i think it comes down to the individual person, i have played this game for 4 years and have enjoyed it mostly. I don't look as small guilds being hard done by, we just do what we can with what we have.

#24 Snowy900

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 17:03

I dont see any problem with small guilds, the problem is with low level players and keeping them interested which i believe has been touched upon before
ideas like unlimited stam until level 25 plus a tutorial to help them develop, things like that will help keep the game going.
nowadays it seems people just want as many handouts as they can get with as little effort as possible.

#25 fs_j4ckoliver

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 17:12

it barely reaches over 100 players these days, or ust reaches it, i believe HCS need to help the new guilds and break up the bigger ones 40-50people max, and do some advertising, when was the last time you saw a advert on facebook, or elsewhere on the internet to boost people playing the game, more people equals more money for them!!

#26 Snowy900

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 17:14

it barely reaches over 100 players these days, or ust reaches it, i believe HCS need to help the new guilds and break up the bigger ones 40-50people max, and do some advertising, when was the last time you saw a advert on facebook, or elsewhere on the internet to boost people playing the game, more people equals more money for them!!


you break up the larger guilds and that will drive people away

#27 Arnagast

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:25

it barely reaches over 100 players these days, or ust reaches it, i believe HCS need to help the new guilds and break up the bigger ones 40-50people max, and do some advertising, when was the last time you saw a advert on facebook, or elsewhere on the internet to boost people playing the game, more people equals more money for them!!


Personally i think 25 max members is good enough but thats just me.

Breaking up guilds now would lead to a lot of complaints i would imagine.

As for advertising - i don't know anymore because most new peeps take "Free 2 Play" litterally and us small guilds just end up with the constant begging which in its own way makes a lot of people quit because you get fed-up listning to it day in and day out. Equals more money, maybe. Im starting to doubt "Free 2 Play" games now, at first they were a good way to try a game out but now its not that way anymore.

#28 sweetlou

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 22:33

Guild size max is way to large! First thing I noticed when I started playing nearly 4 years ago. 50 should be the max like it was in SS, alas we saw what happened there, even if size had nothing to do with it's downfall.



OK, but that is something that can't be fixed/changed at this point. [ but they could make a max # of guild spots]. and delete inactive ones for x number of months. We are spread to thin. But there has to be something that would keep lower level players/ guilds from giving up"

I disagree. Plenty can be done about guild sizes being too large. Stop allowing new members past 50 is only one way. Call it downsizing the game. And yes inactive guilds can be dumped/deleted, but who really cares if no one is home to answer. Inactive guilds effectively do nothing to anyone.

The biggest concern you have brought up revolves around retaining new players. I believe HCS has really blown it with remodeling the UI and the map instead of FIRST fixing simple things that have needed attention for a VERY long time like Arena, the Bounty Board and PvP ladder(never really revamped well), GvG conflicts, and so on. THERE is the reason the game suffers with retaining new recruits/donators!!!

However, currently that is water under the bridge...

Atm there is a content team churning out content like there is no tomorrow. Great. But as there are less and less players around, who really needs content so quickly? What the game has always needed is more coding help. No offense to the new coder guy but his skills have been so long overdue to take some of the pressure off Hoof that immediate results have fallen way short imo. Wanna start retaining more players, start by looking at the coding needs and where those resources are being used. Because besides leveling the game doesn't really work too well. Throw in some server reliability issues at this point and forget it.

Two.

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#29 oucho

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:16

Thank everyone for their input and i want to keep this on track : some have broken off into some things i said like small guilds, relics , etc.

There's been a lot of post about what hsc should of done, that's water under the bridge now. Ask yourself 'what can be done now'

The question is how can we retain new players to stop the decay? I brought up the different ways 'small guilds'' struggle because that's where ''new players'' end up hopefully.

I believe figuring out ways to help small guilds (leveling the playing field some) as stated before is a valid approach to the problem.

Some have said reduce guild size, that might be good but not practical at this point because breaking up guilds would be a nightmare and i doubt hcs would go for that anyway,

and how many times have you logged on being the only one on line? I've been in small, med. and large guilds, and still have this. If we reduce the size there will be less on line [in the guild] which i think will make things worse. Not being able to get buffs, groups,rp packs started, ask questions or just chat. Think about it!

But, as said we are 'spread to thin' and having a limited number of guilds could help in the long run. By deleting inactive guilds [x number of days] and not allowing another to be formed till it drops below the max amount of guilds allowed. Also, HSC might consider mergers with bp and upgrades being transfered as an option. (by submitting a ticket)

I would really like to see some stats from HCS of say; active players by level, inactive players, new joiners each month, how many go inactive in 3 months, just how many guilds are there, level break down of players in say top 250 guilds, etc.

This might help the community help hsc with ideas.

I hate to sound like a broken record but i do feel the short term fix is to figure out ways to help the smaller guilds to discourage guild jumping which causes frustration for all concerned to the point of quitting.
(example) low level player feels he's not getting the support when asking for buffs/ higher levels think they have to buff to much --- options are 'quit or move' this causes more frustration for those left behind trying to hold a guild together

#30 oucho

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:36

I dont see any problem with small guilds, the problem is with low level players and keeping them interested which i believe has been touched upon before
ideas like unlimited stam until level 25 plus a tutorial to help them develop, things like that will help keep the game going.
nowadays it seems people just want as many handouts as they can get with as little effort as possible.


Small guilds is where the low level players are :) double edged sword, to help one you have to help the other.

Unlimited stam to 25 has it's merits. It allows time to get to know the game and get interested in playing, but what about the players that sit at level 20 farming/pvp/gvg for example?

Now, extra stam for x number of days to learn how to navigate/play with an easy tutorial would be nice. i remember my first 500 stam didn't go far

Seems like an easy option for HCS. A new joiner gets eh, 3000 reserve stam

Another thing hcs could do is make the level 1 player sought after by giving 5 rp [could even be 20 rp, ] for every one that joins the guild. (1st guild so not to be abused)

This would help both with; buffs (which are a pain) by earning 12 hour rp packs and new joiners wouldn't wander around lost till they quit. Could make friends right away as recruiter were refreshing the on line list :)And the lower level guilds would be possibly the only recruiters. {larger guilds wouldn't recruit, and get saddled with a lvl 25 for 5 rp]

3000 reserve stam [or enough to make lvl25] and 5 - 20 rp for training you, PLEASE join our guild

This type of ACTION/ASSISTANCE is the kind of recommendation we need to stop the decay I believe! Sure there is decay up thru the ranks but if a level 400-1200 quits it is because he wants to, not forced to so to speak. [that's another topic]

#31 Snowy900

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:10

I dont see any problem with small guilds, the problem is with low level players and keeping them interested which i believe has been touched upon before
ideas like unlimited stam until level 25 plus a tutorial to help them develop, things like that will help keep the game going.
nowadays it seems people just want as many handouts as they can get with as little effort as possible.


Small guilds is where the low level players are :) double edged sword, to help one you have to help the other.

Unlimited stam to 25 has it's merits. It allows time to get to know the game and get interested in playing, but what about the players that sit at level 20 farming/pvp/gvg for example?

give pvp protection upto 25 unless you attack someone, that should give new players enough time to get used to the game

Now, extra stam for x number of days to learn how to navigate/play with an easy tutorial would be nice. i remember my first 500 stam didn't go far

give new players 1000 stam to start instead




Another thing hcs could do is make the level 1 player sought after by giving 5 rp [could even be 20 rp, 1 set of 12 buffs] for every one that joins the guild. (1st guild so not to be abused)

this would encourage creation of multis

This would help both with; buffs (which are a pain) by earning 12 hour rp packs and new joiners wouldn't wander around lost till they quit. Could make friends right away as recruiter were refreshing the on line list :)And the lower level guilds would be possibly the only recruiters. {larger guilds wouldn't recruit, and get saddled with a lvl 25 for 5 rp]

3000 reserve stam [or enough to make lvl25] and 5 - 20 rp for training you, PLEASE join our guild

This type of ACTION/ASSISTANCE is the kind of recommendation we need to stop the decay I believe! Sure there is decay up thru the ranks but if a level 400-1200 quits it is because he wants to, not forced to so to speak. [that's another topic]



#32 oucho

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:01

I dont see any problem with small guilds, the problem is with low level players and keeping them interested which i believe has been touched upon before
ideas like unlimited stam until level 25 plus a tutorial to help them develop, things like that will help keep the game going.
nowadays it seems people just want as many handouts as they can get with as little effort as possible.


Small guilds is where the low level players are :) double edged sword, to help one you have to help the other.

Unlimited stam to 25 has it's merits. It allows time to get to know the game and get interested in playing, but what about the players that sit at level 20 farming/pvp/gvg for example?

give pvp protection upto 25 unless you attack someone, that should give new players enough time to get used to the game


Now, extra stam for x number of days to learn how to navigate/play with an easy tutorial would be nice. i remember my first 500 stam didn't go far

give new players 1000 stam to start instead




Another thing hcs could do is make the level 1 player sought after by giving 5 rp [could even be 20 rp, 1 set of 12 buffs] for every one that joins the guild. (1st guild so not to be abused)

this would encourage creation of multis

This would help both with; buffs (which are a pain) by earning 12 hour rp packs and new joiners wouldn't wander around lost till they quit. Could make friends right away as recruiter were refreshing the on line list :)And the lower level guilds would be possibly the only recruiters. {larger guilds wouldn't recruit, and get saddled with a lvl 25 for 5 rp]

3000 reserve stam [or enough to make lvl25] and 5 - 20 rp for training you, PLEASE join our guild

This type of ACTION/ASSISTANCE is the kind of recommendation we need to stop the decay I believe! Sure there is decay up thru the ranks but if a level 400-1200 quits it is because he wants to, not forced to so to speak. [that's another topic]


ok, gvg protection? what did that have to do with extra stam?

1000 stam? very limited help give less than a days stam @ 50 an hr?

this would encourage creation of multis. Maybe, but hopefully hcs has a better handle on that than in the beginning :} And a established player taking a chance on getting kicked for 5-20 guild rp is not wise, to say the least.

In short, the probable benefits out way the possible abuse

#33 Khanate

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:25

Higher base max stam to 2000 stamina. Reduces the load off buffers in small guilds which makes them more keen to recruit new guys and train them properly, makes the account feel less like a "must donate account" and gives enough play around stamina to enjoy your first sitting with the game.

#34 Trecar

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 14:03

Your first sitting at the game has more stam available than that already. You get a reserve stam pool of about 2000 or 2500 to play with when you sign up.

One of the main failings of a small guild, and the low level players in it, is the founder. Plain and simple, a level 25 should NOT be allowed to form a guild. Anyone that joins is pretty much guaranteed to go inactive. I don't know what kind of power trip the founder is on, but an inability to adequately support the guild with buffs, advice and gear is a recipe for disaster. Anyone joining is likely to find their enthusiasm waning pretty quickly, at a time when they should be learning the myriad of things to do within the game.....
There should be a much higher level to become (or even to be passed on) the rank of founder, and there should be a much higher creation cost, to deter those that have a couple of fsp spare and think it is an easy thing to do....stump up more fsp, and maybe some would think twice before going down the route to failure, and dragging others with them. There should be less guilds, but more well funded and well prepared guilds.....

Those few that do make it to a decent level despite their disadvantages then decide they need to run off to the guilds at the top.
You know the ones i mean, the only sub level 50 player there is uberbuffed and ubergeared for some cheap RP, smacking the noobs in other guilds, and they advertise with things like "Top 20 guild recruiting players over level 300/400" etc.
Read into that "We can't be bothered to train you, buff you, in case you don't make it to that level, and all our efforts would be in vain. If you do make it, leave the guild that put all the time, stamina and effort into your development, because we have level 1200 buffs and some relics...."
It's fine racing to the top, wanting to be top 20 guild, top 10, top 5, or whatever, but what use is that when the lights go out because no-one is left.....
Hell, you know it's bad when the frackers have stopped kicking out inactives because they can't steal enough players from other guilds to fill their ranks....

Want to encourage new players to stay in the game? Put the effort in yourselves, train up the level 5's, give them an option, give them somewhere to go other than to the semi active level 25, who joined in 2008, and has formed a guild to be semi active there and will drag newcomers down to his level.
You, at the top, have the ability, the knowledge, the resources to turn at least of some the new players into great players, to encourage them to stay and play.
The question is, can you be bothered to do it?

#35 oucho

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:40

Your first sitting at the game has more stam available than that already. You get a reserve stam pool of about 2000 or 2500 to play with when you sign up.

One of the main failings of a small guild, and the low level players in it, is the founder. Plain and simple, a level 25 should NOT be allowed to form a guild. Anyone that joins is pretty much guaranteed to go inactive. I don't know what kind of power trip the founder is on, but an inability to adequately support the guild with buffs, advice and gear is a recipe for disaster. Anyone joining is likely to find their enthusiasm waning pretty quickly, at a time when they should be learning the myriad of things to do within the game.....
There should be a much higher level to become (or even to be passed on) the rank of founder, and there should be a much higher creation cost, to deter those that have a couple of fsp spare and think it is an easy thing to do....stump up more fsp, and maybe some would think twice before going down the route to failure, and dragging others with them. There should be less guilds, but more well funded and well prepared guilds.....

Those few that do make it to a decent level despite their disadvantages then decide they need to run off to the guilds at the top.
You know the ones i mean, the only sub level 50 player there is uberbuffed and ubergeared for some cheap RP, smacking the noobs in other guilds, and they advertise with things like "Top 20 guild recruiting players over level 300/400" etc.
Read into that "We can't be bothered to train you, buff you, in case you don't make it to that level, and all our efforts would be in vain. If you do make it, leave the guild that put all the time, stamina and effort into your development, because we have level 1200 buffs and some relics...."
It's fine racing to the top, wanting to be top 20 guild, top 10, top 5, or whatever, but what use is that when the lights go out because no-one is left.....
Hell, you know it's bad when the frackers have stopped kicking out inactives because they can't steal enough players from other guilds to fill their ranks....

Want to encourage new players to stay in the game? Put the effort in yourselves, train up the level 5's, give them an option, give them somewhere to go other than to the semi active level 25, who joined in 2008, and has formed a guild to be semi active there and will drag newcomers down to his level.

You, at the top, have the ability, the knowledge, the resources to turn at least of some the new players into great players, to encourage them to stay and play.
The question is, can you be bothered to do it?[/

quote]

This would be a start, if the top 25 took 5 a piece for 125 as i said a start not a great start:(

lordthade wrote:
So are we talking about "game decay" or are we talking about helping small guilds? While I agree there's some overlap, we're really talking about different things.


I guess a little of both since ''some overlap''' is a lot. new players hopefully play long enough to get in a guild. and it will be a small one with all the problems/challenges listed in my first post.

The majority of the decay starts here



Small guilds is where the low level players are; double edged sword, to help one you have to help the other.

I still believe we have to figure out ways to help the lower level guilds as the only practical solution

#36 oucho

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:50

’To admin’’ if you have read, please respond to this topic; The game has changed in so many ways in 5 years that an adjustment is need to encourage noobs to stay.
( to help noobs you have to help lower guilds)

Look at the market place for example; It cost a guild and a ‘noob’ 4 times as much for upgrades. 200+k vice 50k per fsp! ( I know the mp runs its self, But maybe upgrades could be on a graduated scale by level)

So many guilds that; IF a noob makes it to one, the upgrades,gear, activity and leadership is weak.
In the beginning new members were constant and some guilds excelled as a group. They would accept a friend or level 1 with little consequence. They were all low levels! Now? Most guilds have a minium join level. ‘’We are spread to thin.’’

(Limit guilds in game, delete or store inactive ones, have a min lvl to start one as space is available, maybe allow mergers with upgrades as stated earlier. Basically try to get guilds that are guilds, with the possibility of 7-8 members being on line for support, ie groups, buffs,chat, etc.)

The lower level guilds get the noobs; (But are they actively recruited/taken care of?)
(Something to entice guilds to; Accept, train, buff would help.)

There have been several issues/ideas/suggestions generated so far throughout the thread. As stated earlier it is hard to recommend a course of action without all the facts/stats.


As the old players die off, what's gonna be left

FOOD FOR THOUGHT 

#37 Trecar

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 07:57

If the top 100 guilds took 5 each, 500 sounds a lot better....and out of that, you'll get rid of 2 or 3 in the first week....turnover is high as most go inactive....so realistically, JUST the top 100 guilds could take in 200 a week.....that sounds better, doesn't it?
And if the top 250 took 5.....?
And other than those being created for medal purposes (please HCS, give us not only who recruited a player, but who they were recruited by. I see hundreds of level 1's created each day, and i KNOW that most are created by people trying to get their recruiting medals. Help us weed these out by giving us a clue who "recruited" them so we can cut this out and have a real idea of who is genuinely entering the game to play it.....) i doubt there are many more than that coming into the game, so every noob would get a good home full of knowledge, buffs, gear and support.........
Go on, give it a go, or shall i watch the tumbleweed roll by again, next time anyone suggests high level guilds taking on new players? After all, it's easier than facing the fact that YOU (and i mean this as a collective YOU, covering probably 80-90% of the top 100 guilds) are ignoring these players....

#38 Trecar

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:21

Just did a very quick "survey" of the top 50 guilds.....funny how you can find room for sub 50 players to get RP for you...

Top 50 who routinely let in sub level 50 players: 3
Top 50 who have a couple of sub level 50 in, mainly inactive: 5

= Top 50 who rely on stealing players from other guilds: 42

Oh, and.....
Top 50 who have only sub level 50 RP farmers: 10

So, stick your heads in the sand, blame it on HCS or whatever else you can come up with, continue to try to steal the best players from the smaller guilds who put in the time and effort to develop new players, and pretend it will all be alright in the end......

"The lower level guilds get the noobs; (But are they actively recruited/taken care of?)"
No, they are not, and they will not be unless you take some in and train them up......

Small guilds don't need any help. They needed dedication, activity and funding from a well prepared founder(s). If they don't have these, they won't succeed and they'll drag others dwon with them. And if you think we're "spread too thin" now, how many more semiactive, underprepared noobs are going to leap up and form another yet another doomed guild if HCS gives them a slightly easier route? Make it harder to form a guild, not easier. Make them really want to put the effort in, not just drift into what they think is an easy path to being some kind of bigshot.....

#39 oucho

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:03

Just did a very quick "survey" of the top 50 guilds.....funny how you can find room for sub 50 players to get RP for you...

Top 50 who routinely let in sub level 50 players: 3
Top 50 who have a couple of sub level 50 in, mainly inactive: 5

= Top 50 who rely on stealing players from other guilds: 42

Oh, and.....
Top 50 who have only sub level 50 RP farmers: 10

So, stick your heads in the sand, blame it on HCS or whatever else you can come up with, continue to try to steal the best players from the smaller guilds who put in the time and effort to develop new players, and pretend it will all be alright in the end......

"The lower level guilds get the noobs; (But are they actively recruited/taken care of?)"
No, they are not, and they will not be unless you take some in and train them up......

Small guilds don't need any help. They needed dedication, activity and funding from a well prepared founder(s). If they don't have these, they won't succeed and they'll drag others dwon with them. And if you think we're "spread too thin" now, how many more semiactive, underprepared noobs are going to leap up and form another yet another doomed guild if HCS gives them a slightly easier route? Make it harder to form a guild, not easier. Make them really want to put the effort in, not just drift into what they think is an easy path to being some kind of bigshot.....


I disagree with most of this;
Small guilds DO need help. You have to have small,medium and large guilds and as some player excell they will move on up for various reasons; arena gear, larger groups for elites/se hunting, titan interest, etc or just feel like they've out grown it.

2nd getting 100 guilds to accept 5 noobs won't happen and even if they did it would be short lived. The level 1s turn into 25s,75s 250s and gear is at higher levels in most except some limited arena/gvg gear. Forums haven't been updated in years for lower level sets and I'm sure there are other issues
In short the large will stay large, so the focus is again back to small guilds :)

On hiring someone to recruit 25 of his fb friends i do agree. Maybe not get medal credit til lvl 10 or so. This would encourage the medal gainer to help the lvl 1 with gold, gear, interaction and even possibly guild placement. 25 recruits off fb now is 25 inactives, but with a little help from the 'so called' recruiter a few might gain interest :)

The other parts i have already comented on.

#40 thering66

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:22

The reason guilds are large is because in the past there were no guild tax, so the guild relies on bank deposit from its members. Guild bank was a good gold sink back then.

Help small guilds? define "small guilds". yes I agree helping low level players playing the game, but I also believe in helping those who help themselves. if we hand feed them they can't possibly grow on their own.

the most the game can do is base they're structure fee on guild size meaning the larger the guild the more expensive the upkeep of structures and the smaller the guild the cheaper.


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