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FS,HCS and small guilds


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#41 oucho

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:53

I moved some suggestions thru out this thread to my orginal (1st page) post giving it a little more clarity.

#42 jagger4man

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 13:28

Hm, in past year too much of my dear friends went inactive cos of wrong cows updates and every day I see less end less ppl online. This saddens me cos I really like this game.

Now, small guilds and new players dont have any chance cos of big guilds and high lvl players.
Put yourself on their place. Big guilds have high lvl players, juicy gear, and you cant take relic, cant hunt titan, cant do nothing...

New player dont have any ways to get much free FSPs for upgrades with farming or ... so only way is using cc. With that approach you are eliminating big population which dont have many/or dont want to spend on it. I know that cows live from players who buy FSP but as the days go by less and less ppl plays this game they wont have any income.

Some mechanism for limiting strongest guilds and players over smaller ones definitely should be set.

Maybe to link relic lvl with lvl of guild so bigger guilds can fight over higher lvl relics and leave lower lvl relics to smaller guilds. In this 2 groups of relics you should have all kind of relics stamina gain, XP gain ...

Also, all cows servers are in US so players from US have faster server response and have advantage over other players in titan hunting.

#43 oucho

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 23:06

moved some suggestions thru out this thread to my original (1st page) post giving it a little more clarity.

And i adopted a ''NOOB''' --- if you want to check on his progress see;
MY ADOPTED ''NOOB'' 16/DEC/2011 '''''''''''''''''' PVPMAST3R ''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Joined: 16/Dec/2011 ------------------ current level 18 and climbing

SPECIAL THANKS TO; ''Jbhouse '' Guild Founder of Souljahs of Mayhem for giving him a home :)

#44 Imaj

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:12

As a guild founder of a small guild, I find that investing in the players within the guild is as important as investing in the guild itself. With that said, it would be nice to have a little extra help from time to time when trying to get players to fall in love with the game to where they will be active over the years. I myself am hooked. I have several in our guild that are hooked as well. When recruiting, it is easier for us to grab lower lvls as stated due to not having buffs/pots and gear for the higher lvls. This is a real turn off for them. We recruit at least once a week. We weed out the inactives, and bring in new blood that we hope runs thru the heart of the guild for a long time. Our ratio of keeping players active is about 1 in 10 for about 1 month, and 1 in about 20 for longer. I know it is just my 2 cents, but the game is worth all the hard work. I love my guild, I love the players in the guild, I love the players outside the guild. There is a sense of accomplishment as goals are achieved. No matter with help or not, we will succeed and become a "Big" guild. It just takes time, dedication and a lot of hard work. Sometimes a little wind to our back would be nice. As far as suggestions for what that wind should be, I never thought about it because I never thought it would be there.

#45 oucho

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 14:22

moved some suggestions thru out this thread to my original (1st page) post giving it a little more clarity.

And i adopted a ''NOOB''' --- if you want to check on his progress see;my bio or
MY ADOPTED ''NOOB'' 16/DEC/2011 '''''''''''''''''' PVPMAST3R ''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Joined: 16/Dec/2011 ------------------ current level 20 and climbing

SPECIAL THANKS TO; ''Jbhouse '' Guild Founder of Souljahs of Mayhem for giving him a home :)

#46 fortville

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 15:25

New people: We are a Top 150 guild that constantly recruits brand new people. New people are the future of this guild and the game as a whole. We will always recruit and train new folks as we have never forgotten that we all started where they are now. At any one time we have gear for up to five people under level 20. No guild tax until they hit 1 million contributed XP.
New/small guilds: I started this guild the moment I hit level 25. I have no problem with new folks starting a guild IF they have the drive and dedication to make it work otherwise they are just wasting the time of the folks in their guild that are counting on them to make it work. For at least the first year after you form a guild it is a full time job to get it up and running the way it should be. As far as helping small guilds I do what I can by offering advice and guidance when I see a new guild with what seems to be a promising founder. I feel it is only right to do so as I had a great mentor when I was "growing up" as a founder.
Now let's see how many of the other Top 250 guilds will step up and actively recruit and train new people......

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#47 oucho

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 18:43

New people: We are a Top 150 guild that constantly recruits brand new people. New people are the future of this guild and the game as a whole. We will always recruit and train new folks as we have never forgotten that we all started where they are now. At any one time we have gear for up to five people under level 20. No guild tax until they hit 1 million contributed XP.
New/small guilds: I started this guild the moment I hit level 25. I have no problem with new folks starting a guild IF they have the drive and dedication to make it work otherwise they are just wasting the time of the folks in their guild that are counting on them to make it work. For at least the first year after you form a guild it is a full time job to get it up and running the way it should be. As far as helping small guilds I do what I can by offering advice and guidance when I see a new guild with what seems to be a promising founder. I feel it is only right to do so as I had a great mentor when I was "growing up" as a founder.
Now let's see how many of the other Top 250 guilds will step up and actively recruit and train new people......

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I'm not sure if this answered anything in my post,[or was recruiting] but it is more evidence of what I've been talking about.

2 years old guild actively recruiting; with around 30 active members!
no tax till 1 mil xp; 1/3rd of guild in this category. {great recruiting tool though :) }
Top 150 guild; with only gear for 5 under level 20
and
i just visited this guild at noon on saturday, U.S. time; '''1''' level 87 was the only person logged in, with full stam, dressed out to hunt with no buff or buffers :(

This is an example only, but is prevalent thru out fs . ''Look around''

Guilds need to merge [hopefully with cows support as mentioned] so players can have enough online support . If it's not there, they will lose interest and quit!!!

moved some suggestions thru out this thread to my original (1st page) post, giving it a little more clarity.

And i adopted a ''NOOB''' --- if you want to check on his progress see;my bio or
MY ADOPTED ''NOOB'' 16/DEC/2011 '''''''''''''''''' PVPMAST3R ''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Joined: 16/Dec/2011 ------------------ current level 20 and climbing

SPECIAL THANKS TO; ''Jbhouse '' Guild Founder of Souljahs of Mayhem for giving him a home :)

#48 fortville

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 19:09

Nope not a recruiting post(Though it does kind of sound that way on a re-read.). More of a response to some of the other posts without a mess of quotes.
Gear for 5 under 20 is plenty. More than that and they get lost in the shuffle much as if you have more than 25-30 students in a RL classroom.
No surprise that only one is logged in at noon on a Saturday a week before Christmas(Last big shopping day!). Myself I'm in a last minute dash to get some Christmas orders done(Woodworker).


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#49 3JS

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 22:28

It's probably too late to make the guild sizes smaller, so how about going the opposite direction?

Let's make it more enticing for the smaller guilds to merge with other smaller guilds. As of right now, if you decide to merge, the guild that is abandoning ship loses everything. Why can't there be something in place to get back at least a percentage of your FSP investment, even if it gets deposited into the other guilds upgrade bank? Then, the merging guild can contribute to the new guild without going further into their pockets. The new guild wins in 2 ways...They get new members and additional upgrades. The merging guild gets a bigger, better guild with (hopefully) more active members to help them out.

Let's face it, a level 25 with a power complex will always think that they can create and run a successful guild. When they find out that they bit off more than they can chew, they can make use of the the above suggestion, and all of the members in there along with the now more humble leader can continue to play the game and be better off as well.

#50 Imaj

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 00:49

If anyone "Adopts a noob" we have plenty of space for them as well. This will allow them to have at least one higher lvl on almost at any given time. I am on from my phone all day during work just for the reason of buffing the newer players so they can advance. I cringe everytime I get on and see some lvl 15 has just hunted to empty his stam and he has a lvl 25 Rage as a buff and that is it. Our biggest thing is an active chat. If we have an active chat, it opens doors for questions to be asked so players can learn. We encourage this when recruiting, letting people know you have to at least say "Hi" when you login. The more comfortable they feel with the people in the environment they are in, the easier it is for those questions to learn about the game.

I know I am in the "Noob" category as far as Guild leaders, but our guild was a well planned and strategic creation. Like some others have said, a power hungry lvl 25 player does often think they can create a guild and run it. I did research on what it would take to run a guild or 25 players, and 2000 fsp seemed to be the starting point. Now 10,000+ fsp into it, I wouldn't trade it for the world.

#51 lordthade

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 01:12

Guilds need to constantly recruit. I'm usually trying to recruit for my guild just to keep fresh faces in there. For every 5 we bring in, maybe 2 or 3 stick. The rest jump, are multis, or just go inactive in a few days. The 2 or 3... well... they suffer the same attrition the rest of the game does. People have real life out there. Money, jobs, family, distractions, and sometimes they just stop playing for no reason at all.

I think we've brought up a few times that backpack spaces for new players would be IDEAL for helping retention. Give them three to start, award one with an early quest, and another for reaching level 10 or something. Reserve stam is nice, too, but I think it'll add to the multi problem. Backpack spaces may, also, but minimally painful.

The number of players online isn't directly a correlation of the numbers of players in the game. Lots of players simply take so long to get to max stam they're rarely on. We have several in our guild that PLAY, but they wait so much they actually go inactive waiting for stam to regenerate. Inventing, farming and those activities would be better for trying to keep them around. Remember the numbers on for the all-LE event? THAT tells you more effectively the actual number of active players.

#52 oucho

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:47

moved some suggestions thru out this thread to my original (1st page) post, giving it a little more clarity.

I have added more on 1st page

; Are we dead, and just don't know it yet

#53 lordthade

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 16:04

No. I certainly don't think so.

However, I think competition from other games, from REPETITION for a lot of vested players, and a simple reality that fewer young internet users see this style of game as "fun" means we have to work that much harder to keep them here.

#54 thering66

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 23:10

No. I certainly don't think so.

However, I think competition from other games, from REPETITION for a lot of vested players, and a simple reality that fewer young internet users see this style of game as "fun" means we have to work that much harder to keep them here.


Skyrim >_<

#55 rhann123

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 23:31

I really like the divisions idea, but I'm not sure how do so would effect the game.

#56 Belaric

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:30

I started, and still run, a "small" guild. We are now top 250, but the top 250 ain't what it used to be. I was not yet level 200 when I started it. Many are the times I wished I had not bothered and had joined the Frackers and got to EOC. But I did not. I have a guild with many brown dots in my 23 members. Because loyalty is its own reward. I have people who come back after 6+ months off... they see I stuck with them and they are guildies for life. I still take on new players, but new players are hard - the early levels are stupidly confusing - as has already been mentioned in this thread - my fave would be to kill the fire chasm dead end - it seems a logical progression to follow and then you are stuck with 100's of stam to walk back to mountain path..... stupid. This game, when it started, was surprised by its own success - it now seems incapable of recognising why it is killing itself.

Storage space??? I have 4 guild slots. Myself and my rockstar guildies are the guild store. 50 FSP for a guild slot vs 15 for a BP slot makes the choice a no-brainer. The game is withering on the vine - I started a thread about this a while ago - and many have been started, big whoop.

The OP is right. Small guilds are the lifeblood of this game. But none have a right to exist. I was in a shitacular guild at first, and I felt LOYALTY to that guild, until I realised I was the ONLY one playing regularly! I then joined a fantastic guild (Tortured Souls), and the game changed completely for me. Guilds that care are awesome. No one is entitled to 24/7 guild buff/gear support - part of being in a great guild is not being spoon fed, it is being allowed to learn for yourself within a good structure that minimises your mistakes. Or at least that is my take. I try not to micromanage my guildies - oh how I WANT to - because it is THEIR game. If they want to wear stupid offline sets - fair do's.

Oucho - I admire your effort in this thread. That you are in AL does undermine you a bit. I never left my small guild. I put time and effort and money into it. It lives. It is not wildly vibrant and exciting, but it lives.

Anyway - recommendations:

The A/AA/AAA ranking system would rock in my opinion - currently the top whatever ladders are unattainable for new players - having entry or time or level based ladders would wildly increase the addiction quotient of the game - and we need that.

New players need 10 BP slots. Everyone in game with less than that gets an upgrade. Those of us with more already? We are already winning - we need no more help.

Get a new tutorial for the game and streamline the opening content - from personal experience I know the game has lost promising players who could not be bothered waiting 10 hours to regain stam to get out of a dead end. You may say - screw them - quitters! We need less quitters.

To second Luisspammer - more coders are required. This game has/always been too reliant on one coder. Problems are never reacted to quickly enough.

HCS: Will you ever learn to NOT release new ideas on Friday? Not pertinent to this thread - but FFS. (British acronym in use there)

Last thing. I do not think new players expect the earth. Multis do. As soon as a "new" player requests advanced buffs, or access to epics etc. he is gone. It is just another effing multi.

Small guilds rock - we just don't talk.

#57 KingHomer

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:54

A few thoughts I'll add:

1) I'll flat out admit as a top 30 or so guild that we don't recruit players under level 50 or 100 because we feel it opens us up to GvG by the very guilds that are messing the game up for new players and small guilds by gvg'ing them.

Example>>> We add a level 50 player, then those lower guilds that are experienced at gvg might see that we only have one player at level 50 and he's a leveler... so they'll hit him and we won't have anyone else but that level 50 player who can hit back. And since we recruit levelers primarily, we don't want them getting hit 50 times in a gvg (those logs would suck!) or using their stam hitting back when we're trying to grow them as a leveler. With the 25 level range, you can't easily out-level a gvg'er the way you can a pvp'er.

Idea >>> reduce gvg range to 10% of target level (minimum 10, maximum 25)

2) Small guilds, even active ones with 10-20 members under level 200, have a lot of trouble affording the endurance shrine level 3, and that extra +5 stam gain per hour is a huge reason players leave small guilds. Once you realize that stam is the limiting factor in game, you want more. So you get the 25/25 personal upgrades and you've got the shrine at level 2 for +85, but you realize the guys leading your monthly rankings are in bigger guilds and have +90... In fact, trying to afford the level 3 is the primary reason I closed my small guild at 498 and joined my current guild. Many decent lower level players I added bolted once they realized bigger guilds had +15 per hour from the endurance shrine and we didn't. When I added level 3, we had trouble affording it...

No good idea here, the endurance shrine is a wonderful gold sink per hour unless you make its cost based on guild and player levels and counts.

3) Shiny things - new players don't realize you can get to 100 without much problem with inexpensive sets (we used Inferno, Nomad, Giggles, Girath, Cockatrice, Deep to get to 100 in the dark ages and had little problem with one-hitting). The only buffs you really need are AL, Imp and DD for 20% damage bonus. Now you could run out a Gazant set and drop some solid items around it to get to 20 and then Plague is cheap... but everyone wants an FF'd Emissaries set to level for a couple days until they reach Plague.

I have a lot of other thoughts, but those are the ones that came to mind quickly.

#58 Hesterite

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:39

I started a guild around 6 months ago. To be honest I wasn't quite ready for it and didn't fully recognise the work involved but it was something that reignited my interest in the game and gave me a new set of goals in Fallen Sword, especially after being in Scions Of Might and seeing what could be accomplished by larger guilds.

There's a few things we have problems with and tbh it seems more on the side of newer players and (possibly) their impatience.

EQ - I got to level 50 playing solo and never had any problems only using equipment looted along the way. We currently have Lokors, Aughisky, Plague, Cockatrice & Lesser Santork sets for the first 50 levels. Not the greatest sets perhaps but it'll get you through the start without any problems. Not being the greatest guild, most of our recruits are lvl 1-5 and they instantly expect fully forged equipment for each slot and nearly always leave for a larger guild that can afford to provide this. Maybe I should splash out and some EQ for these folks but I'd rather use my FSP saving for higher leveled gear for the guys that stuck around.

Structures - can be expensive but so long as we don't get crazy we'll get by. Again the problem is newer players wanting fully upgraded everything which we can't afford. How many lvl 1's need a Scout Tower or Inventor's Lab?

GVG - Personally I'm not that bothered about these. If another guild initiates one and misses, we'll have a go at clearing it but currently our money/stamina is concentrated on the upkeep of structures. While 50k gold doesn't sound that high, they'll soon add up and we currently need to keep that money as structure upkeep incase of illness, holidays, etc. Again, we get a lot of low levels who've seen the guilds paying 2-3FSP per win and expect the same from us, (after we've given them fully upgraded EQ to do the job of course).

I could add a few more things but I'm at work and need to get some done but in short guilds shouldn't be too easy. The main trouble I have is new players who expect everything to be given to them. Maybe it's just my opinion but I enjoyed working my way through and learning what I could as I went.

#59 oucho

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 02:44

moved some suggestions thru out this thread to my original (1st page) post, giving it a little more clarity.

I have added more on 1st page


Some more suggestions that have been mentioned a lot. I said some so still read thru :)

#60 Prezze

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:10

Recruiting is basicly being impossible lately if you don't supply everything for free...

I'm currently on the point to just retire from the game since we can't get any new members in the guild anymore. We've been trying for months in a row with pm'ing guildless people but no result.

They all want every building ingame maxed out, want free buffs when they need them, want free pots, all the epics and all the legendaries. While it already has been pointed out that it's not necessary to levelup efficient.


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