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#181 KitiaraLi

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:26

So it sums up to an incompetence of the Cows in rooting out the altered and unaltered versions of TitanStride?

Again - HCS have been presented with a video showing how an unmodified version of titanstride actually works. Clearly, they did not approve.
The way the autoreload on the kill was integrated into the script, will of course have led to modified versions, auto killing from the get-go, so you as a human player, no longer needed the one click that was required to autobash the remaining hp outta the titan, on that spot. Those of you who keep claiming it is not automation, seem to forget that others have been using/testing the script as well, and might also be able to see the possibilities in the way the script was put together. Not to mention how others may also have seen how certain player have moved guilds, and suddenly their new guild managed to get a bunch of titan secures ... not tossing out names, just saying ;-)

And I'd like to ask everyone here who supports the removal of TitanStride: When was the last active titan hunt you've participated in?

I fail to see the relevance.


And ragingwave, I would like to point out, that your main argument is flawed. You keep referring to speed of connection vs speed of fingers. The flaw lies in the simple fact, that those with speedy connections, could also have speedy fingers, and therefor should be first on spot, and first on kill. This goes with or without titanstride, as well as on old or new map.

I need to clear up something though, since I am not 100% certain on this, but the new map should be approx the same speed for all, yes? Something in the way it has been written?

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#182 evilbry

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:57

I don't think it's dramatic at all. I think it's very straight to the point. I have seen situations where guilds with 2-3 members have beaten 10-15 from WAL ;) again, I have been around the titan fields for a long time.

This banning of scripts is a very positive first step in improving the game. Something people have been screaming out for, for a long time.

If we start seeing more guilds getting 4-5 players out there, it will be great. Think of the competition that could start. Isn't that what everyone wants with titan hunting? More competition because of how boring it is out there?

The thing is though you talk about superhunters putting effort in. If some wizard makes a script that goes around faster than anyone else, and kills faster than any one else, do they deserve it? (those who have titan hunted for a while will know what I mean with that question).

The thing is though you say superhunters as if they have access to something that others don't. TitanStride is publicly available. It's not like anyone has to do any work - it's been done already - just download, and use. The effort is where with TS, you have to actually time keystrokes, and accurately/efficiently get to your target. In turn, you're rewarded with better speed. By banning it, all Titan hunting will become, effectively, is a bunch of people clicking every few seconds and waiting for the little guy to run there, only to find that someone closer had taken the titan out.




You miss the point.

installing titanstride/lightwalk is just the first step.

Put you and me in the same room, using the same connection, same titanstride, with me using the computer I am posting on, I will blitz you. I will absolutely leave you for dead. titan stride favours those who know more about computers than others. The more you know, the faster you can make titan stride work.

It's not a case of just installing it ;) those who do and think they will be on par are sorely mistaken.

I don't want to start to call your knowledge/titan hunting experience into question but you do seem to be barking up a lot of wrong trees.

#183 DragonLord

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:00

The "average" player may or may not be better off - but the point is, surely, that those with bespoke versions of scripts, or even personal scripts, that "CAN/COULD" clean up on certain activities are definately worse off as their method of exploiting the game has now been closed...

not really - I expect those that did(if any) would have had fast connections anyway - the gap between fast vs slow has now increased so those with fast connections are still better off - did you hunt titans before LW or TS were around?


I didn't hunt them before and I don't hunt them now. That facet of the game I just find WAY too boring. But, different strokes for different folks.

I just think that ALL scripting should be disallowed. Ideally, I'd like the key facets of the FS_Helper incorporating into the base code too but that's something (hopefully) for the future.

#184 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:04

So it sums up to an incompetence of the Cows in rooting out the altered and unaltered versions of TitanStride?

Again - HCS have been presented with a video showing how an unmodified version of titanstride actually works. Clearly, they did not approve.
The way the autoreload on the kill was integrated into the script, will of course have led to modified versions, auto killing from the get-go, so you as a human player, no longer needed the one click that was required to autobash the remaining hp outta the titan, on that spot. Those of you who keep claiming it is not automation, seem to forget that others have been using/testing the script as well, and might also be able to see the possibilities in the way the script was put together. Not to mention how others may also have seen how certain player have moved guilds, and suddenly their new guild managed to get a bunch of titan secures ... not tossing out names, just saying ;-)

And I'd like to ask everyone here who supports the removal of TitanStride: When was the last active titan hunt you've participated in?

I fail to see the relevance.


And ragingwave, I would like to point out, that your main argument is flawed. You keep referring to speed of connection vs speed of fingers. The flaw lies in the simple fact, that those with speedy connections, could also have speedy fingers, and therefor should be first on spot, and first on kill. This goes with or without titanstride, as well as on old or new map.

I need to clear up something though, since I am not 100% certain on this, but the new map should be approx the same speed for all, yes? Something in the way it has been written?

If TitanStride is so flawed, why is it that they approved it to begin with? And if modified scripts are so tough to detect, who's to say that people won't modify FSH and add in the features of TitanStride? I'm not defending the modifications. If HCS can distinguish them, I'd love to see them removed. Go ahead, ban the modified versions, but there is no reason to ban TitanStride itself. I've lost count of how many times I've said it: the only approved version of TitanStride can be used by anyone, so noone is handicapped by TitanStride... Modified versions pose a completely different issue.
And I'm not clear as to what you mean by autoreload on kill. The map autoreloads independantly of your kills, as far as I know. The world map doesn't autorefresh after each kill either, if you mash the mouse button.

I ask the question because I want to know how many comments are from actual active titan hunters. It's a titan hunting issue, and it only makes sense that the active titan hunters should have their opinions stand out from the others, to me. Those who do not actively participate in titan hunts have little business in this issue... I won't pretend that I'm an expert, since I'm new to the titan hunting aspect of the game, but people with crystal medals should have their opinions valued over those without titan medals, I believe.

This flaw in my main argument...
I fail to see it. Of course those who have fast fingers and fast connections will be first; but by disabling TitanStride, you're removing the importance of having fast fingers. Competition from thenceforth will be based purely on connection speed, which most certainly won't be to the benefit of the majority of FS.
And your counterargument has a simple flaw to it as well: those with fast fingers and fast connections are no longer necessarily the first on spot; it's simply those who have a fast connection and people stationed around the map, now. Without TitanStride, it's perfectly plausible for a player with fast fingers/connection to blaze across the map and reach a titan before an less skilled one; with Beta, the player is forced to stare at the lil' guy on the map leisurely stroll across to the titan, where it's likely to be dead when he gets there.

As for connection speed, if you lag, naturally, your character lags with you. If your connection is faster, your computer will naturally load the square the titan is on faster, and you'll get the kill before the others.

You miss the point.

installing titanstride/lightwalk is just the first step.

Put you and me in the same room, using the same connection, same titanstride, with me using the computer I am posting on, I will blitz you. I will absolutely leave you for dead. titan stride favours those who know more about computers than others. The more you know, the faster you can make titan stride work.

It's not a case of just installing it ;) those who do and think they will be on par are sorely mistaken.

I don't want to start to call your knowledge/titan hunting experience into question but you do seem to be barking up a lot of wrong trees.

You're absolutely right. You would blitz me, and I have no doubts about it. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but I've been doing just fine on the titan field with TitanStride enabled for everyone, with no extra computer modifications. However, when forced to use beta to titan hunt, I can barely get to the spot, let alone get there first. It's an unnecessary hassle, when there isn't even such a major problem with titan hunting as is. All this script banning didn't come from an issue with titan hunting, but from an issue with script security..?

#185 evilbry

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:06

The "average" player may or may not be better off - but the point is, surely, that those with bespoke versions of scripts, or even personal scripts, that "CAN/COULD" clean up on certain activities are definately worse off as their method of exploiting the game has now been closed...

not really - I expect those that did(if any) would have had fast connections anyway - the gap between fast vs slow has now increased so those with fast connections are still better off - did you hunt titans before LW or TS were around?


I didn't hunt them before and I don't hunt them now. That facet of the game I just find WAY too boring. But, different strokes for different folks.

I just think that ALL scripting should be disallowed. Ideally, I'd like the key facets of the FS_Helper incorporating into the base code too but that's something (hopefully) for the future.

This, Well said pardoux.

#186 KitiaraLi

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:09

I just think that ALL scripting should be disallowed. Ideally, I'd like the key facets of the FS_Helper incorporating into the base code too but that's something (hopefully) for the future.

This, Well said pardoux.

+1

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#187 evilbry

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:10



You miss the point.

installing titanstride/lightwalk is just the first step.

Put you and me in the same room, using the same connection, same titanstride, with me using the computer I am posting on, I will blitz you. I will absolutely leave you for dead. titan stride favours those who know more about computers than others. The more you know, the faster you can make titan stride work.

It's not a case of just installing it ;) those who do and think they will be on par are sorely mistaken.

I don't want to start to call your knowledge/titan hunting experience into question but you do seem to be barking up a lot of wrong trees.

You're absolutely right. You would blitz me, and I have no doubts about it. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but I've been doing just fine on the titan field with TitanStride enabled for everyone, with no extra computer modifications. However, when forced to use beta to titan hunt, I can barely get to the spot, let alone get there first. It's an unnecessary hassle, when there isn't even such a major problem with titan hunting as is.

Then the solution is simple, Get the new beta map interface fixed and working properly and everyone will be on the same page.

I lose out with the banning of these scripts but I support the move because it's a positive move FOR THE GAME. The game is dieing out and we need to put the game as a whole ahead of our own personal gains if we want a game to come home to in 6-12 months.

#188 KitiaraLi

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:10

tl:dr

It's banned, move on.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#189 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:13

Then the solution is simple, Get the new beta map interface fixed and working properly and everyone will be on the same page.

I lose out with the banning of these scripts but I support the move because it's a positive move FOR THE GAME. The game is dieing out and we need to put the game as a whole ahead of our own personal gains if we want a game to come home to in 6-12 months.

So be it. If they can fix beta completely within 6-12 months, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Then again, the term "fixed" might not be what I think it is, but it'll suffice for now.

tl:dr

It's banned, move on.

It hasn't even been a day yet. It's not like changes haven't been revised. Let's not be hasty..

#190 evilbry

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:22


Then the solution is simple, Get the new beta map interface fixed and working properly and everyone will be on the same page.

I lose out with the banning of these scripts but I support the move because it's a positive move FOR THE GAME. The game is dieing out and we need to put the game as a whole ahead of our own personal gains if we want a game to come home to in 6-12 months.

So be it. If they can fix beta completely within 6-12 months, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Then again, the term "fixed" might not be what I think it is, but it'll suffice for now.

See this is where players need to support the cows a bit more. I see many people comment about how the new map is not working. I don't see these people posting into the bug threads or raising awareness to those things which are not working.

A little public awareness fixed the algorithm for the path finder this week.

If you are having problems, be constructive and make the cows aware of them, so they can improve the game for everyone. Detail what happens. What you are doing when it happens. The browser (including version), OS and so forth are all valuable information.

If all people are going to do is complain about something not working without doing their part to try and resolve the issues, then they only have themselves to blame and hold as little right to complain as the person who doesn't make a vote in their presidential/ministerial elections.

#191 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:26


Then the solution is simple, Get the new beta map interface fixed and working properly and everyone will be on the same page.

I lose out with the banning of these scripts but I support the move because it's a positive move FOR THE GAME. The game is dieing out and we need to put the game as a whole ahead of our own personal gains if we want a game to come home to in 6-12 months.

So be it. If they can fix beta completely within 6-12 months, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Then again, the term "fixed" might not be what I think it is, but it'll suffice for now.

See this is where players need to support the cows a bit more. I see many people comment about how the new map is not working. I don't see these people posting into the bug threads or raising awareness to those things which are not working.

A little public awareness fixed the algorithm for the path finder this week.

If you are having problems, be constructive and make the cows aware of them, so they can improve the game for everyone. Detail what happens. What you are doing when it happens. The browser (including version), OS and so forth are all valuable information.

If all people are going to do is complain about something not working without doing their part to try and resolve the issues, then they only have themselves to blame and hold as little right to complain as the person who doesn't make a vote in their presidential/ministerial elections.

I tested the alpha server and levelled my way to Xinderoth - I discovered tons of bugs, I posted about tons of bugs in the Alpha section of the forums, yet not a single one was addressed. I've avoided beta since then.

#192 fs_littledog9

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:31

have a feeling that if ragingwave's founder read this material, there would be an epic facepalm. give it a rest. it's done. there are still quick 3 window options out there that require a bit more attention than "hunting" while working on a crossword.

#193 Zenth

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 08:56

Hunted my first titan from start to finish today. I had not done this in a long time do to the frustration fact. I’ve never used any kind of titan script so my experience is 100% real FS mechanics. Using the new Beta map was great I was able to double my previous best titan kills by almost double.

Id just like to point out a few things
When it’s said that it’s the players choice to down load scripts or not its there problem. What if a person is playing from a computer that they are not allowed to Down load on? Doesn’t this alone mean those that can down load have the unfair advantage? People do play from School, Work, Liberia’s and other places that may have a download block on them.

Another thing when titans were first introduced it was announced they were a Guild event. So yes the guild that can put more players on the field should have the best chance to secure the win. Not that it will happen every time but they will have a better chance. 2 or 3 guys should have to work extremely hard to secure over a guild that has put many players on the field.


Now claiming the skill from titan hunting will be gone. Don’t you mean the Script using skill will be gone? Yes it will but a new skill will come into play and those that can adept will still do well. The hand eye coordination is still going to be there for the most part. The point and click keeps coming up but if you don’t have the hand eye coordination chances are you may miss click next to the titan causing you to stop and have to click again. then be able to get your courser back up to the action box to be able to click on the titan.


Connection speed. Computer quality and location to a server always play a big part in any online game. There is now way to get around that and those people will always have those advantages there not much that can be done about it. My self I have a Wal-Mart special comp and a mid grade cable connection. Only thing I have going for me is I'm located on the U.S east coast.

Anyways this is just my opinion and no matter what with the new beta map I will be out there on the titan fields a lot more.

I am also in favor of the Helper being removed. The cow’s need to pick threw it, and implement some of its functions that help some of the more tedious tasks more bearable

#194 boeffie

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 13:48

So it sums up to an incompetence of the Cows in rooting out the altered and unaltered versions of TitanStride?

The way the autoreload on the kill was integrated into the script, will of course have led to modified versions, auto killing from the get-go, so you as a human player, no longer needed the one click that was required to autobash the remaining hp outta the titan, on that spot. Not to mention how others may also have seen how certain player have moved guilds, and suddenly their new guild managed to get a bunch of titan secures ... not tossing out names, just saying ;-)


I need to clear up something though, since I am not 100% certain on this, but the new map should be approx the same speed for all, yes? Something in the way it has been written?


I used TS on old UI, never noticed any auto kill-reload, used to bash out kills, not getting very far with the delay, but am sure some modification must have been used elsewhere, with titans disappearing as fast as they did, with no-one around I could see.

I have tried titaning on new UI, new map and old map, I would say anyone used to manually routing would still have an advantage, as the 'walk' part of TS should be equivalent to the incorporated LW.

Waiting for titan to show on map, then going to click on it and wait for pathfind, was slower than directly starting to walk with direction keys, so that would be an advantage for experienced titan-hunters, BUT people using the pathfinder only would still manage to show up and get kills in, which I found encouraging.

Experience in GAMEPLAY making players better is great, having people fiddle with their comp to get it set up just right, or adjusting scripts to do it for you, is not.

#195 dowuones

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 13:55

Just to be sure: Lightwalk is different from FSH Auto-walk? Or they are the same thing?


And would it be possible to send a message to EVERY player, and not just in home page, warning to disable Titanstride and Lightwalk? (something like Point Rewars offer, so that until you click it, it doesnt disappear?
I ask it because if a player comes back after a week, a month, a year, and he was using previously allowed (or tolerated scripts), he wont have chances to know rules have changed.

#196 Removed19110

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 13:56

I will agree to whatever make things simple and fairer to the ALL users.
As many have said already, it is not so much about installing a feature as much as modifying it and getting more out of it. And usually this knowledge favours the geeks..

Even more while I do understand why an arena player is better than another by looking at his score, I never quite understood why some guy with a faster connection should be considered special just cause they happen to be closer to a server or they have a super fast connection or they have the ''know how'' on modifying their PC to run faster.. Especially since what we v been talking about here has been one of the most profitable aspects of the game ever since I can remember.

Banning all the scripts and making the new map work properly is the only way to reset the counter and take away the grey zones in Titan hunting.

#197 hbklives

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 14:56

I ask the question because I want to know how many comments are from actual active titan hunters. It's a titan hunting issue, and it only makes sense that the active titan hunters should have their opinions stand out from the others, to me. Those who do not actively participate in titan hunts have little business in this issue... I won't pretend that I'm an expert, since I'm new to the titan hunting aspect of the game, but people with crystal medals should have their opinions valued over those without titan medals, I believe.


So, you are pretty much saying that only a certain group of people have a say in this? Titan hunting was made for all, not just them. So, when the new SE's come out.. Should the Top SE hunters say HCS should retire a certain SE just because they have a medal? Same goes for PvP and so on.

tumblr_ohmmkinSKX1siy7m0o1_540.png


#198 fs_karlososos

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 15:08

i like the part where everyone is an expert now

#199 Leos3000

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 15:14

by eliminating Titan stride it puts pretty much all connections and computers back on an even playing field for titans.

I would know, I have a great connection Posted Image

and live very near the servers for FS, but I am pretty much just as fast as the normal player on the new maps. with out a modified version of Titanstride I was still a great hunter, but there was a select few who still somehow ran circles around me. So I am happy to see a more even playing field for all.

#200 Dotaboys

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 15:45

wow.. thats nice HCS ^_^ great job... ...


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