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#161 rhann123

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:07

Stupid stupid stupid! Game once again goes to those with internet speed, guess my titan hunting days are now behind me.

#162 PXT

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:29

thumbs up :D

#163 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:31


Beautifully said.

Thanks. :D

All that said, I'm not saying that I disagree with HCS's decision to remove the scripts. I agree with it, in fact. All of our opinions of the pros and cons of the scripts are irrelevant - this is HCS's game, and they need to CONTROL it.

Like evilbry said earlier, the first question that needs to be asked is "what should Titan Hunting be like?" We, as a community, can give our suggestions, but ultimately, not only is it HCS's decision to set the goal of what the experience should be like, but it is HCS's responsibility to CREATE that experience. The experience should not RELY on scripts.

In other words, whatever tools there are to be used, they should come from HCS and be part of the game.

So, my suggestions to HCS as to "what should Titan Hunting be like" is that it SHOULD NOT have point-and-click movement, and that there SHOULD be reward for skill.

I also think that connection speed / geographical location / crazy computer optimization should, somehow, be irrelevant. (This is the only part of the playing field that could use some "leveling".)

Maybe the solution to that has already been found in the Beta map? I've heard it's fast, but I haven't messed with it much.

Or, maybe...the solution can be found in the Slaughterfests in Sigmastorm2. In the Slaughterfest arenas (which are live, deathmatch-style PvPs), you can only move one square per second. Being too fast is actually BAD, and the skill comes from timing your movements at exactly each 1-second mark.

This would make taking down a Titan quite a long affair...but is that necessarily a bad thing?

In my opinion, yes, and no. First of all, the Cows themselves don't actually test what they implement, I'd think. They've probably never hunted a titan on beta in their life. So it's only fair that the players get a say, or at least the right to provide feedback, regardless of whether the Cows value it or not.

As for whether it poses a solution...

Stupid stupid stupid! Game once again goes to those with internet speed, guess my titan hunting days are now behind me.

Sums it up nicely. Now my computer has to load every movement, rather than just load the frame I end up on. So basically, moving without LightWalk, but with a smooth animation. Completely pointless; may as well hand the fast connections a free secure.

And titans are already a pretty big time commitment. The removal of TS isn't helping; with a few guildmates on Fuvayu today, the secure still took 5 of us 2.5 hours. I can't imagine what a solo secure attempt with beta would look like. You'd have to devote your life to Titan hunting, which I'd rather not do.

I can't reiterate myself enough: TitanStride was in no way unfair to any player - everyone had the choice to use it or not; if you lacked the skill to use it, you could use beta. If you were slower, you had to suck it up. Why change it to be unfair to the players who are skilled?

#164 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:40

Nice cows, those scripts arent needed with the new map. Please fix the titan bugs on the new map and that may encourage others to follow us who have already switched.

This isn't encouraging us to switch. It's bluntly forcing us to switch when we clearly don't want to.

We have the right to judge for ourselves whether the scripts are needed, I assume? I don't like other people making my judgments for me. :/

#165 vamunre

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:53

I am not even going to touch the scripts thing. I have only one thing to say. SERVER SYNC. not just once have I won an item on AH and then latter got outbid. how is that possible? 1,2 sec can be the difference between a hunter getting there and the titan no longer there. all because of servers lagging by a second or more. x hunter sees the titan 2 seconds before before b hunter all because his server is out of sync.

#166 vamunre

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:59

and all of the true couples or teams. can easily see this as I used to hunt titans only with my wife and all to often I would look over at her computer or ask her/vise versa to find out where the titan was at because we were on different servers. that in my opinion is sometime almost equivalent to lightwalk, I can hit a button a few times easily in a second.

#167 KingHomer

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:01

From a large, mostly active guild that doesn't titan hunt except for me on a part-time basis really, I think this is a step in the right direction. I always wonder when I'm Lightwalking around the map with only one other player on it, how they are beating me to the spot and killing the titan before I can even get there. It doesn't often spawn once on a spot... I should get the second kill right? Note I accuse no one, this has happened over a period of time and has more or less made me a clean-up guy.

My attitude, as the not-fastest hunter with the not-fastest connection/computer (I am "guilty" of living in the U.S. though), is that the best hunter will get the first kill on a spot, but the second or higher kills on a spot should be wide open. As a guild with one "secure" in all our tries before just giving up on secured drops, that second kill on a spot is where we slowly earn our TKP and our rewards.

I just tried "beta map hunting" the Guardian by myself this afternoon for a few hours. Took me a while to get the hang of the new map, but I like it. Only a little wasted stam (mostly me moving past a turn looking for the Titan, for anyone who doesn't know it's a dark realm) and the pathfinder worked smoothly. The map jumps around while walking, but as I hunted more on the same map, I got better at anticipating the path and keeping my mouse pointed in the right direction.

Overall, I think the better hunters with faster connections will still be the better hunters with the faster connections on the new map. But there hopefully won't be any beating someone from all the way across the map anymore before they can get one kill in.

And as the system is set up to reward guilds with secured drops or TKP, then I think we have to recognize that 1 "Super-Hunter" should not be able to beat a guild with 4 or 5 players dividing the field unless they are ham-fisted noobs.

Anyway, Titan hunting has gone through phases... wide open, FFS, auto-reload kills, LW, TS, etc... and at no point was it less competitive or more reliant on technology than now with all the scripts. Next week, the dedicated hunters will start figuring out how to work within this system and still be better than the rest of us, but now at least I'll know they are in fact better at it and not cheating somehow.

So I can't help but think this is the right direction to be going.

#168 kanclers

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:07

I have a one Question i use new BETA map , how i can close Titan Stride and Lightwalk ??? I use Internet explorel programm

#169 fortville

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:13

I have a one Question i use new BETA map , how i can close Titan Stride and Lightwalk ??? I use Internet explorel programm



To remove TitanStride and Lightwalk from your computer: Chrome...Click on the little wrench icon in the upper right hand corner, highlight Tools, click on extensions, click the Remove button next to the one you want to remove. Firefox.... Click on Tools, click on Add-ons, click Uninstall next to the ones you want to remove.


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#170 Bahamut101

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:14

Not sure if this been answered yet haven't read through post but is it alright to still use Auto Refresh?

#171 vamunre

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:16

yet that is ok

#172 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:17

I just tried "beta map hunting" the Guardian by myself this afternoon for a few hours. Took me a while to get the hang of the new map, but I like it. Only a little wasted stam (mostly me moving past a turn looking for the Titan, for anyone who doesn't know it's a dark realm) and the pathfinder worked smoothly. The map jumps around while walking, but as I hunted more on the same map, I got better at anticipating the path and keeping my mouse pointed in the right direction.

Yep, it works smoothly. But when there's competition, the ones with the fast connections will blaze past everyone else. The difference in connection speed is at least somewhat mellowed with TS enabled, since you have to load significantly less. So, it only makes sense that the ones with faster connection speeds will now be able to run laps around the people with slower ones, rather than just beat them across the map.

And of course, 1 "Super-Hunter" can't beat a guild with 4-5 players. I haven't seen that happen in who knows how long - the exaggeration of the prominence of "Super-Hunters" seems a bit excessive, in earlier posts... Having one player secure over 3 other players is already an achievement in itself. To have that many in the same guild and still pull off the solo secure isn't something that happens often.

I'm not experienced in clean-up either, but I imagine that cleaning up a titan is nothing like the competition of securing a titan.

So, it takes me back to the point: Why take away TitanStride? What's the benefit? It clearly displeases some of the crowd; who does it please? Do people not enjoy having a tool to increase efficiency of titan hunting? It may be "workable", but what does it provide that TitanStride did not have? Lowering the efficiency of everyone and stretching out the differences of connection speed isn't "fair", if you ask me.

#173 fortville

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:23

Not sure if this been answered yet haven't read through post but is it alright to still use Auto Refresh?


yet that is ok



I don't recall seeing a definite thumbs up on this question in this topic. Thought I had read everything. Did I miss a response from the Cows somewhere?

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#174 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:27

Not sure if this been answered yet haven't read through post but is it alright to still use Auto Refresh?


yet that is ok



I don't recall seeing a definite thumbs up on this question in this topic. Thought I had read everything. Did I miss a response from the Cows somewhere?

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I didn't see a Cow response on this thread, at all. I'm doubting if they even care about our feedback, hahah.

#175 fs_karlososos

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:48

Not sure if this been answered yet haven't read through post but is it alright to still use Auto Refresh?


yet that is ok



I don't recall seeing a definite thumbs up on this question in this topic. Thought I had read everything. Did I miss a response from the Cows somewhere?

Posted Image

I didn't see a Cow response on this thread, at all. I'm doubting if they even care about our feedback, hahah.




yes you can use auto refresh. what are you gonna do? sit there and hit f5 every second for 2 hours?

come on people.... get real

#176 vamunre

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:56

scripts: A simple program in a utility language or an application's proprietary language.

extension: A set of characters that follow a filename and are separated from it by a period, used to identify the kind of file


LW/TS is a script
RELOAD EVERY is an extension

#177 KingHomer

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:01

I'm not experienced in clean-up either, but I imagine that cleaning up a titan is nothing like the competition of securing a titan.

So, it takes me back to the point: Why take away TitanStride?


I am experienced in both, cleanup is solo-wandering around killing all the titans, kinda boring but necessary on many of the higher level ones, and you eventually get a shiny toy after months of off and on efforts, I think my cleanup kill rate using the new map is going to be similar to the rate using LW and the old map, so no real change in my time invested to get 300, 500 or sometimes 1000 titan kills.

Competition for me was staking out a small area and trying to beat the one or more "Super Hunters" who were literally everywhere on the map to the titans that were within say 3-4 keystrokes of my location. After a while I'd get some kills, maybe 100-200 and get frustrated and stop. And then hope my kills got 5th when no one else showed up because they knew they couldn't compete either. Sometimes, I got a guildmate or two to help me divide the map and we'd go for 300-500 kills as a goal, but that has long since lost interest for my slower guildmates.

Why take away TitanStride? Because it sounds like a good scripter could make it so there was more than one version of TitanStride out there. Plus, I was using LightWalk - is that slower than TitanStride? How would I even know which one is faster, I was just trying to get good at LightWalk! And when someone comes up with TitanWalk and LightStride, does HCS have to approve those too since they are similar and track the use and actual code being used by all hunters to make sure no one threw an adjustment in?

Much easier and more effective to ban them all and work to improve the in-game map interface.

#178 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:06


I'm not experienced in clean-up either, but I imagine that cleaning up a titan is nothing like the competition of securing a titan.

So, it takes me back to the point: Why take away TitanStride?


I am experienced in both, cleanup is solo-wandering around killing all the titans, kinda boring but necessary on many of the higher level ones, and you eventually get a shiny toy after months of off and on efforts, I think my cleanup kill rate using the new map is going to be similar to the rate using LW and the old map, so no real change in my time invested to get 300, 500 or sometimes 1000 titan kills.

Competition for me was staking out a small area and trying to beat the one or more "Super Hunters" who were literally everywhere on the map to the titans that were within say 3-4 keystrokes of my location. After a while I'd get some kills, maybe 100-200 and get frustrated and stop. And then hope my kills got 5th when no one else showed up because they knew they couldn't compete either. Sometimes, I got a guildmate or two to help me divide the map and we'd go for 300-500 kills as a goal, but that has long since lost interest for my slower guildmates.

Why take away TitanStride? Because it sounds like a good scripter could make it so there was more than one version of TitanStride out there. Plus, I was using LightWalk - is that slower than TitanStride? How would I even know which one is faster, I was just trying to get good at LightWalk! And when someone comes up with TitanWalk and LightStride, does HCS have to approve those too since they are similar and track the use and actual code being used by all hunters to make sure no one threw an adjustment in?

Much easier and more effective to ban them all and work to improve the in-game map interface.

It's nothing personal, but I do just fine using plain old TitanStride - could it be a genuine speed difference, possibly?

And I believe that HCS only approved the unaltered version of TitanStride. Once it's modified, it no longer qualifies as TitanStride, and poses no reason for the unaltered version to be banned - if I adjusted FSHelper to automate GvG and Ladder hits, it's no longer FSH.

One rotten egg doesn't justify the waste of all the others.

So it sums up to an incompetence of the Cows in rooting out the altered and unaltered versions of TitanStride?

And I'd like to ask everyone here who supports the removal of TitanStride: When was the last active titan hunt you've participated in? Cleanups not included.

#179 RebornJedi

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:22

And I'd like to ask everyone here who supports the removal of TitanStride: When was the last active titan hunt you've participated in?

*raise hand*...i've been on the hunt for the past handful of secures. i use the integrated fastwalk that is APART of fallensword..by the way you talk, i don't know if you know that it is there lol...i can keep up with alot of my fast teammates...but not karl *shakes fist at his fancy interwebs and the fact he lives in a boot*..

im glad they are banning scripts. personally i don't even use the FSHelper.. i have noticed lag when certain hunters come out on the field, witnessed alot of it on the fawkes when there really wasn't alot of hunters on the field to begin with :roll: ... and i don't know if thats from certain scripts they use or just the amount of stress the servers are put up against with all the TS users....

...if this ban on scripts bring out more competition..EXCELLENT..it is fucking boring out there LOL

all i know is when the new map is put into place and we have to use that for titan hunting, if it stays at the same speed, i will be out of the hunt *shrugs* i don't see that being any fun.

But if, now, all we have to do is zoom out, click on the Titan, and wait for our character to walk there...that's just BORING! And, more importantly...it takes NO SKILL.


...but if HCS feels like this is the way they want Titan hunting to be played, then so be it. ill just move onto another aspect of FS. lets hope it can give me the enjoyment i once got for hunting titans. the hand eye coordination i adapted for efficient titan slaughtering has brought me alot of fun times on the field. the perfect amount of keystrokes brought a smile to my face :)

 


#180 fs_ragingwave

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:26

And I'd like to ask everyone here who supports the removal of TitanStride: When was the last active titan hunt you've participated in?

*raise hand*...i've been on the hunt for the past handful of secures. i use the integrated fastwalk that is APART of fallensword..by the way you talk, i don't know if you know that it is there lol...i can keep up with alot of my fast teammates...but not karl *shakes fist at his fancy interwebs and the fact he lives in a boot*..

im glad they are banning scripts. personally i don't even use the FSHelper.. i have noticed lag when certain hunters come out on the field, witnessed alot of it on the fawkes when there really wasn't alot of hunters on the field to begin with :roll: ... and i don't know if thats from certain scripts they use or just the amount of stress the servers are put up against with all the TS users....

...if this ban on scripts bring out more competition..EXCELLENT..it is larks a lordy! boring out there LOL

all i know is when the new map is put into place and we have to use that for titan hunting, if it stays at the same speed, i will be out of the hunt *shrugs* i don't see that being any fun.

But if, now, all we have to do is zoom out, click on the Titan, and wait for our character to walk there...that's just BORING! And, more importantly...it takes NO SKILL.


...but if HCS feels like this is the way they want Titan hunting to be played, then so be it. ill just move onto another aspect of FS. lets hope it can give me the enjoyment i once got for hunting titans. the hand eye coordination i adapted for efficient titan slaughtering has brought me alot of fun times on the field. the perfect amount of keystrokes brought a smile to my face :)

And now that hand-eye coordination is no more useful than someone who knows how to click where the titan is. :/
And my point is... Banning the script won't bring out more competition. It'll take the competition away. All that'll be left are the ones with fast connections and the ones who clean up.

I'd like to defend one of the few aspects of FS that I still enjoy; whether HCS decides to heed my word or not is up to them.


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