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#21 Belaric

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 15:40

While I love the graphic above I'm guessing it will get this thread locked, but before that happens....

Replacing FSP rewards with pitiful amounts of reserve stam is a very poor idea.

Why was it done?

1)Matomy did not get enough traffic for FSP so wanted to switch to reserve stam?

2)Because there was a glitch yesterday and some random FSP was given out? (I received a bunch of "here is 1 FSP for your matomy video reward!" messages, I assumed it was for all the vids I watched when payouts weren't happening (I was optimistic about late payouts so rolled the dice there))

3) Because HCS feel free FSP are lowering their direct income via donation, so switching it to stam will force more players to go back to giving the game money?

4) Some labyrinthine reason related to coding and/or purchase agreements between internet companies.

Who knows? The bottom line is it is a bad idea. You have just attracted a bunch of players back to the game, and you take away a viable source of FSP income instantly.

New players starting out - once pointed in the video direction - had resources available to them to help them enjoy the game far more. The free FSP, and the gold it could be converted into, is far more valuable than 3 stam. It was a way to get started, to do the first upgrades, to get hooked. You have taken that away.

HCS will suffer as I imagine their pay per click on videos will drop off, they give away nothing, they get nothing. As has been said, make the stam/video 25, or at least 10. Even then - sitting through 5 minutes (on another window) of Blades, is not worth it for 10 stam, it was barely worth it for 1 FSP. (Funny first time). So will the loss of pay per click be outweighed by a surge in donations?

I am sure it is more 'complex' than that economically. But from the consumer point of view it looks like we are getting hosed, and perception is reality, boys and girls. You just made a bunch of folk unhappy with you immediately after doing something to improve morale. How does that foot feel? (Or was the timing deliberate? I think not given the recent issues with videos...)

So Cows, please explain this. And also watch your revenue stream, and be prepared to switch back if your video traffic slows to a trickle. Doing 6 vids and getting less stamina than it takes to cast deflect blows.

#22 KitiaraLi

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 15:40

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No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#23 Hoofmaster

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:46

Due to the value of the videos (ie. what the game receives per video watched), it is not viable to give out 1 FSP, hence it was changed to reserve stamina.

The only other option would be to have them give some other form of points that can then be converted into Fallen Sword Points once you have accumulated enough of them.

#24 fs_scrogger

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:48

Due to the value of the videos (ie. what the game receives per video watched), it is not viable to give out 1 FSP, hence it was changed to reserve stamina.

The only other option would be to have them give some other form of points that can then be converted into Fallen Sword Points once you have accumulated enough of them.

The new point type option would be much better than 1-4 reserve stam, I fully understand that decision but no one will watch for such a small amount of reserve stam.

#25 BigglesVII

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:58

what about gold rewards instead that would be easier than implimenting a points system.

#26 Sustortias

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:00

I can understand the devs wanting to earn more revenue but it just seems a shame that so many good changes have been made recently and then this comes along.

Also their advertisers aren't gonna be too pleased i reckon when they find out nobody's watching their vids anymore.

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#27 lawyergod

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:12

I'm going to leave aside the discussion of the economics, and instead say that if FSPs for videos aren't going to happen, I really like the idea of gold rewards, as an alternative to reserve stamina. It should be fairly easy to make a video worth, say 100K gold (approximately half the value of an FSP), and have the gold go straight into a player's bank, like an Arena award.

Also, I personally think HCS should involve the community more when decisions like this are being made. I raise the example of the would-be wholesale change to GvG, which HCS was planning to do because they decided unilaterally it was the right decision. The community reacted harshly, and when polled, more than 50 percent of us (myself included) requested instead that the change become a separate part of the game.

Here too, HCS decided unilaterally that a change had to be made, and that this was one of only two ways to do it. MINUTES after Hoof explained this to us, at least one viable alternative was presented (and, as the case might have it, one that I like).

There are smart people here. Smart people, who really like the game. Let us help.

#28 Belaric

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:20

Due to the value of the videos (ie. what the game receives per video watched), it is not viable to give out 1 FSP, hence it was changed to reserve stamina.

The only other option would be to have them give some other form of points that can then be converted into Fallen Sword Points once you have accumulated enough of them.



This seems to me to indicate that you at HCS have made that value decision, not the video promotional companies. You have decided the video income was not worth the injection of FSP into the game economy, as not enough cash was being injected into your company via that (video) route. That is fair and is your decision, you have a company to maintain. I presume you did a rigorous cost/benefit analysis and came to this course of action. Having more data on your player base via the global event will also have been useful to you in your deliberations.

It will be unpopular however. But the game lived before FSP for videos. Hopefully it will not be crippled afterwards. I am personally saddened by this. I stick to my previous request that you observe the video flow (and gold market in game, and indeed donation incidence (I'm sure you never lose track of that!!)) and if you find that negative consequences are being felt for the company, and for the game, that you reverse the decision and allow FSP back into the game via that route. It really was a lifeline for new players, and grease to the wheels of the ingame economy. I know I will be thinking twice about some FSP purchases now.


Maybe we should have a community event to rally support for FSP videos???? (and indeed all the rewards that have now switched to reserve stam!) No takers?

#29 KingHomer

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:27

I think all the Super Bowl ads killed this. Late January I was getting 5-10 fsp per day from this, my guess is it started to get expensive to HCS and/or the video providers once we were all watching many per day.

After the Super Bowl, it dropped off a bunch. Oh well, I'll get some reserve stam when I'm bored at least.

#30 Belaric

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:32

I think all the Super Bowl ads killed this. Late January I was getting 5-10 fsp per day from this, my guess is it started to get expensive to HCS and/or the video providers once we were all watching many per day.

After the Super Bowl, it dropped off a bunch. Oh well, I'll get some reserve stam when I'm bored at least.


Good point.

#31 Lahona

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:35

I think all the Super Bowl ads killed this. Late January I was getting 5-10 fsp per day from this, my guess is it started to get expensive to HCS and/or the video providers once we were all watching many per day.

After the Super Bowl, it dropped off a bunch. Oh well, I'll get some reserve stam when I'm bored at least.


Good point.


No superbowl or videos for it in the UK so that doesn't explain the dirth of ads here or the change to the reward for videos.

#32 Zukira

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:39

I think we would rather see credits towards an fsp for vids rather than reserve stamina. Even if it took something like a half dozen videos to earn an fsp it would be better than the reserve stamina currently being offered.

Video ads probably only pay a fraction of a cent to HCS so why should we be getting instead a fraction of a dollar? That does make sense for why the change. But it doesn't make the new way more enticing.

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#33 Hoofmaster

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:40

I think we would rather see credits towards an fsp for vids rather than reserve stamina. Even if it took something like a half dozen videos to earn an fsp it would be better than the reserve stamina currently being offered.


I'll talk over this with the team, but I'm pretty sure this would work :)

#34 Feldshan

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:41

I complete understand that the income from one video didn't match the price of one FSP, but as the idea has already been suggested couldn't we get the equivalent of FSP shards or pieces and trade them in for FSP from the rewards (not gold since that changes in value, and so does stamina as a LV 300 player gets more gold per stamina then a LV 10 player does), that way the shards allotted could be equal to the amount of money coming from the offer and it would be fair to most concerned. If the value of the offer changed then the amount of shards given could change.


Just to add, the "death" of the videos is because too many people started doing the offers which lowered the money HCS received per FSP used in the game. Either that or the offers started offering less money to HCS.

#35 Zukira

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:42

Thanks Hoof :)

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#36 Hoofmaster

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:44

I like the idea of them giving Fallen Sword Fragments or Fallen Sword Shards that can be combined to make 1 Fallen Sword Point :)

#37 Zukira

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:48

I like the idea of them giving Fallen Sword Fragments or Fallen Sword Shards that can be combined to make 1 Fallen Sword Point :)


I have this image in my mind of an fsp 'orange' like a dot got sliced in half and you can see the inside and it is sectioned up like the fruit.

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#38 Feldshan

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:55

But is the FSP an "orb" or a coin? I mean would it be round or would it be flat?

#39 GoHalos

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:56

How do you expect all the low level players to stick around when you keep cutting all the avenues for them to make easy fsp that they desperately need to remain relevant and in the game?

1 reserve stamina.. what a friggin' joke. I'll have carpel tunnel by the time I get 1000K.

#40 KingHomer

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:59

There are two complaints here:

1. 3-5 Reserve stam is worth a ton less than 1 FSP.

It's economics, when it was a random movie trailer that was looking for our demographic (whatever we are!), it was great, but when 3-4 car companies and a few beverage companies are running multiple spots a day, a lot of fsp was flowing.

Using donation rates... if 50 of us are seeing 8 a day that's 400 fsp = $60 USD.

Assuming Cows are paying out FSP but receiving much less (apparently 15-20% of that based on the reserve stam rate vs 25 stam per fsp) it is probably not competitive with donations from a financial standpoint. Flooding the market with free FSP at a net rate way under the donation rate is flawed economics in real life and in-game.

2. I needed the FSP, reserve stam is useless to me!

An FSP can be used to buy stam (basically the equivalent of 25 reserve stam) but also has the flexibility to support a player or guild in another way. This is correctable by HCS. Award points that can be converted into FSP at 25 points per FSP. This allows for the flexibility of use in the rewards and allows HCS to set the rate needed to make financial sense in issue #1.

I hope the Cows can implement this somehow... the problem is it creates additional in game currency. Maybe just make a "reward points" count and every time it reaches 25, automatically convert 25 points to 1 FSP. No interface required for players to use, so maybe easier to program this way?


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