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Developer Chat Notes (23/Mar/2012)


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#381 fs_littledog9

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 22:04

exactly some things are just pure common sense. somebody said why should i lose 25 levels for hitting someone with 100 stam shots 5 times . well then dont hit somebody 5 times with 100 stam shots


it's lost on me. not everyone does delevel runs for every hit. heck, i doubt 99% of players do.

#382 cramble27

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 22:05

I keep reading nobody wants this change to the bounty system .and telling the cows to rethink this .yet its the same 10-15 people saying it over and over. thats not everybody .thats just a small group of people who enjoy pvp .and i know a bunch of people do enjoy pvp .but also many people dont . and they are forced to play a part of the game they dont want to .and you say buy pvp protection .not everyone can afford that .you say buy better gear to defend yourself .why should they have to if they dont want any part of pvp .


we do want it changed. there's no reason for there to be the same penalty for one player that 10 stams you when offline as a player that 100 stams you 5 times while offline. some of the pvpers are acting like the sky will fall and they'll lose 100 levels in a week if they get bountied for every hit, which is clearly not the case.

though it is rather ironic to see some of the pvpers gripe about losing xp, thought that argument was monopolized by the levelers in the game :P




exactly some things are just pure common sense. somebody said why should i lose 25 levels for hitting someone with 100 stam shots 5 times . well then dont hit somebody 5 times with 100 stam shots


BRILLIANT :!:

#383 stormfury3

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 22:26

i find the Hypocrisy in here very amusing...

#384 Snowy900

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:06

I keep reading nobody wants this change to the bounty system .and telling the cows to rethink this .yet its the same 10-15 people saying it over and over. thats not everybody .thats just a small group of people who enjoy pvp .and i know a bunch of people do enjoy pvp .but also many people dont . and they are forced to play a part of the game they dont want to .and you say buy pvp protection .not everyone can afford that .you say buy better gear to defend yourself .why should they have to if they dont want any part of pvp .


what people are saying is that the bounty board didnt need fixing, it wasnt broken, in it people had the perfect way of exacting revenge, but no one used it to its full potential. there are other more pressing problems with the game, but instead HCS decided to try and beat down pvpers even more

#385 Hoofmaster

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:12



Honestly I missed the actual dev-chat. However I arrived at the very end. The post on page one is the final revision of what was discussed as far as I'm aware. HCS actually posted a few paste-bin's of their final revisions before posting them onto these forums, so yes, the info you see on page 1 is correct. :)



PvP Ladder Changes


[*]Limit to amount of stamina used to attack enemies to 500 stamina per reset.

this is the part everyone says is wrong. it has been posted at least 20 times in this forum that it is not 500 stam per ladder it is 500 stam per player per ladder which is not what the post says and i am STILL waiting for hoof to address this and say which it is

this however tho is one more reason that IRC is a failure in this regards as we dont even have a reference of what was and was not said other than hear say :x


It is a maximum of 500 stamina per target per reset. I've updated the original post to make this clearer :)

#386 Maehdros

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:15

additional ladder hits ( past the 500 stam limit per player) will they be bountyable?


Yes as they won't be PvP Ladder attacks.


It is 500 stamina per target per reset.




Yes, 500 stamina to gain score from someone.. Both players are still opted in, and can hit each other beyond the 500 score of hits.

Hoofs idea of the non bountyable ladder is flawed. ( 2 players opted in ,showing on the ladder, shouldn't be able to bounty each other AT ALL( for off the board pvp hits)


In my opinion every PvP hit should be bountyable( including bounty hits). But if hoof decides not to do that, and to stick with making ladder hits non bountyable, then Read above ;)

#387 cramble27

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:18

I keep reading nobody wants this change to the bounty system .and telling the cows to rethink this .yet its the same 10-15 people saying it over and over. thats not everybody .thats just a small group of people who enjoy pvp .and i know a bunch of people do enjoy pvp .but also many people dont . and they are forced to play a part of the game they dont want to .and you say buy pvp protection .not everyone can afford that .you say buy better gear to defend yourself .why should they have to if they dont want any part of pvp .


what people are saying is that the bounty board didnt need fixing, it wasnt broken, in it people had the perfect way of exacting revenge, but no one used it to its full potential. there are other more pressing problems with the game, but instead HCS decided to try and beat down pvpers even more


This is just your opinion, there are many people who do not feel the BB is a "perfect way for exacting revenge." HCS is not trying to beat down PVPers, they are trying to improve the game for everyone. Obviously they are not going to make everyone happy because that is probably impossible.

Firewall has a good point though, " ...a bunch of people do enjoy pvp .but also many people dont . and they are forced to play a part of the game they dont want to"

#388 Belaric

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:26

I have read this entire thread. Apparently I have no regard for spending my time on this earth well, but then I have played this game too much for that not to be obvious. I have read retreads of the PvP argument so many times I think my ears are bleeding a little this time around. I will now not produce a magic wand and solve the problem.


*not producing*


But near the end there a very salient point, dear to my heart, was produced.

It is the Cows game.

They want to make money.

We all, one way or another, give them money.

They are trying to get money from all of us, PvP, non-PvP, GvG, multiabuser alike, all are tolerated at the temple of cash flow. The intent is to improve the game, to make the game better if and only if that aligns with the need of the creators to make more cash. The intent is to make more money, and with the game as it is, that is to make more money from dwindling resources.

This is a business reality, and I do not blame the Cows for looking after their own interests. I just want to keep playing, so I want them to pursue successful strategies. I'm not sure I'm seeing any here.

If only they would stop cutting the game off at the ankles.

The problem is (lack of) new players, the problem is dwindling online presence. The problem is not e_peenii and PvP vs Levellers. The problem is merchants gone wild in the game, the problem is we are fish in a drying mudlake, gasping and thrashing together, arguing over our positions next to each other when our habitat, the thing that provides for us all is melting away. The last thrashing fish that wins the argument still dies.

WAKE UP!

This game needs an overhaul. The stamina system no longer works. New players join, say "Cool, 1400 levels of content and lots of powers to explore!!" and then realise it will take them 4 YEARS to get there. Internet players are reknowned for their patience. I have now seen many players get to 150-200, and give up. Way more give up by day 3, if they got past hour 1.

Change the game. Endless stam to level 500, it will make the lower levels ultra dynamic and interesting. PvP will be awesome in that environment - power levelling will be undreamed. At 500 - you have 175 buffs, all the basic tools at your disposal, then discover how hard it is to climb the rest of the mountain - but by then the poor suckers are hooked, and the Cows will still make money! That is my pipe dream. Ridicule it at will.

However I will offer this to the Cows, as stated over and over by so many other great guys and gals who have played before, on these forums.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE SOMETHING LOOK AT THESE BASIC PRINCIPLES!!

Basic Principles.

1) ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME (doesn't that make coding easier??)

2) IDENTIFY AND TEST THE PROBLEM (because sometimes what people complain about is not actually a problem, it is how it is supposed to be, and you are reacting to whiners)

3) GET FEEDBACK AND RESPOND (ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME! WHY DO YOU DO 4 AT ONCE THAT MAY INTERACT?)

4) ANALYSE IN GAME EFFECT AND RESPOND - ON A WEDNESDAY!!! BAN FRIDAY IMPLEMENTATIONS!!!

5) Don't ban me. I just needed to rant this one time.


Hi Shardoom.

#389 Maehdros

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:27

but also many people dont . and they are forced to play a part of the game they dont want to"



Who forced them to make an account and log in? It;s clearly stated that pvp is in the game.

#390 Mister Doom

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:29

Who forced them to make an account and log in? It;s clearly stated that pvp is in the game.


"Fallen Sword is a massively multiplayer role playing game set in the exciting and evolving world of Erildath. Players enter the world and explore, adventure across a vast number of realms with thousands of other players.

Fallen Sword is a great game to play on your own or with friends. It has an old school MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) feel to it, with a great combat system. Slice your way through the many dungeons and group with your friends to defeat Legendary creatures."
(Taken from the home page)

It's not as clearly stated as you think you know.. ;)

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#391 Maehdros

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:33

Who forced them to make an account and log in? It;s clearly stated that pvp is in the game.


"Fallen Sword is a massively multiplayer role playing game set in the exciting and evolving world of Erildath. Players enter the world and explore, adventure across a vast number of realms with thousands of other players.

Fallen Sword is a great game to play on your own or with friends. It has an old school MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) feel to it, with a great combat system. Slice your way through the many dungeons and group with your friends to defeat Legendary creatures."
(Taken from the home page)

It's not as clearly stated as you think you know.. ;)



http://www.huntedcow.com/

Fallensword


"Along your travels you will also encounter fellow players who you can engage in battle against."

#392 Mister Doom

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:35

"Join thousands of other adventurers in this constantly evolving web-based MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Role-Playing Game) set in the fantasy world of Erildath. Fallen Sword features thousands of items and a vast array of skills and abilities in which to customise your character. In your adventures across the world you will cross countless lands, from dark forests to icy plains, each area infested with hordes of deadly monsters.

Along your travels you will also encounter fellow players who you can engage in battle against. You may also band together to create a guild, or join one of the many existing guilds! Within the guild, you may partake in guild conflicts or join your fellow guild members to hunt one of the many powerful monsters found across the world."

Ah on the hunted cow site itself, not so sure many people went there before joining the game though, i know I didn't.

Even then though, it's only one small line buried in 2 paragraphs of writing..

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#393 Davros81

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:43

i think the original ideas that were to be contemplated on this thread have somewhat been diluted and forgotten about. I think pvp is a great part of the game, however what I do not like is seeing one aspect of the game forcing others to quit playing, thus reducing the player pool. I want to see whatever will help stimulate people to become more active in the game as a whole, not certain bands of people. It is true there is a vast divide in thought between some people in the game, but the idea of a game like Fallensword is that it can appeal to a mass audience. Some like pvp, some like to level, some like to test their abilities in the arena, heck some like to log in to meet new people and that is arguably the main reason I do still log in to the game, for the people.

I do think that we will never have a utopia in the game, find me a game that is perfect and I will, frankly, call you a liar...

Its all give and take, no class or type of player deserves to be recognised as more important in this game, we are all equal (please do not start the donation issue :roll: ).

I will say that levelling is arguably the most important part of the game as you need to do it to get better stuff for your character, but it is not an over riding part of the game and should not get preferential treatment, or rather those that choose to only level up in the game. Lately one of the best things I have liked to do in the game is do the quests. Surely if anyone is put out it is me as I can only do a finite number of quests and I cannot redo them... :( <-- honestly they are not that great although the stories told are intriguing. You can pvp when you like, you can level up when you like and just think if someone takes 5 from you, you get the pleasure of levelling up again and gaining some more GXP for your guild, win win :)

sorry an awful bit of rambling here but I just thought it would make a change from the broadsiding that is going on in this thread.

adios amigos

8)

#394 cramble27

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 23:45

IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE SOMETHING LOOK AT THESE BASIC PRINCIPLES!!

Basic Principles.

1) ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME (doesn't that make coding easier??)

2) IDENTIFY AND TEST THE PROBLEM (because sometimes what people complain about is not actually a problem, it is how it is supposed to be, and you are reacting to whiners)

3) GET FEEDBACK AND RESPOND (ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME! WHY DO YOU DO 4 AT ONCE THAT MAY INTERACT?)

4) ANALYSE IN GAME EFFECT AND RESPOND - ON A WEDNESDAY!!! BAN FRIDAY IMPLEMENTATIONS!!!


I agree with the stuff I cut out too :) I think the idea of giving new or lower level players more stam is a good one, the Cows should think about it and see if it could work. Hopefully the Cows read this post and listen.

#395 Belaric

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 00:41

The problem is (lack of) new players, the problem is dwindling online presence. The problem is not e_peenii and PvP vs Levellers. The problem is merchants gone wild in the game, the problem is we are fish in a drying mudlake, gasping and thrashing together, arguing over our positions next to each other when our habitat, the thing that provides for us all is melting away. (The lake that is melting is the dying game to those who do not get it) The last thrashing fish that wins the argument still dies. Do you want to stand atop the bonfire as the world burns? Ask SS2 players how glorious that is.

"PvP foreveeeeeeeugh" Or in alternate universe 357.... "I level therefore I was. Urg!"

Yup - that sucker won. There was no-one left to give him a headstone.

WAKE UP!

Oh yeah I am off topic. The topic is always the same as far as I am concerned. The survival of the game. Keep the game alive. Feed the roots. Branches can fall and be regrown, if the roots are active. FEED THE ROOTS.

#396 fs_littledog9

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:17

This is just your opinion, there are many people who do not feel the BB is a "perfect way for exacting revenge." HCS is not trying to beat down PVPers, they are trying to improve the game for everyone. Obviously they are not going to make everyone happy because that is probably impossible.

Firewall has a good point though, " ...a bunch of people do enjoy pvp .but also many people dont . and they are forced to play a part of the game they dont want to"


yep. pvp is part of the game. and the bounty board is a part of the game as well. the cows are making strides to provide a bounty free ladder for the pvpers, and they're also giving casual players a better way to fight offline cheapshots by being able to place a bounty per hit.

i've yet to see any semblance of a reasonable explanation of why the penalty for multi hitting should remain the exact same as single hits anywhere in this thread (instead, it's a bunch of hyperbolized statements on how it will kill pvp, and therefore the game as a whole) , and it seems the best argument is in favor of the proposed change on this game aspect.

the guys at hcs have shown the ability to filter through many a chicken little in the past when changes have been proposed and are trying to make positive changes to keep this game going for years to come. this is a necessary step to keep the more novice intrigued without being turned off by the campers they encounter along the way.

it's not even that big of a proposed change, it just give the bountier a slightly larger sense of vengeance after logging back on and finding that the same player has hit them 3-8 times while they were off in the real world. this doesn't kill pvp, it just keeps em honest :P

#397 fs_scrogger

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:47

The problem is (lack of) new players, the problem is dwindling online presence. The problem is not e_peenii and PvP vs Levellers. The problem is merchants gone wild in the game, the problem is we are fish in a drying mudlake, gasping and thrashing together, arguing over our positions next to each other when our habitat, the thing that provides for us all is melting away. (The lake that is melting is the dying game to those who do not get it) The last thrashing fish that wins the argument still dies. Do you want to stand atop the bonfire as the world burns? Ask SS2 players how glorious that is.

"PvP foreveeeeeeeugh" Or in alternate universe 357.... "I level therefore I was. Urg!"

Yup - that sucker won. There was no-one left to give him a headstone.

WAKE UP!

Oh yeah I am off topic. The topic is always the same as far as I am concerned. The survival of the game. Keep the game alive. Feed the roots. Branches can fall and be regrown, if the roots are active. FEED THE ROOTS.


+1, regardless the outcome I hope it makes the game stronger and that all of us are in it for the game and not ourselves. Compromise is a must, please let cool heads prevail!

#398 shdowdrgn

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:52

i've yet to see any semblance of a reasonable explanation of why the penalty for multi hitting should remain the exact same as single hits anywhere in this thread (instead, it's a bunch of hyperbolized statements on how it will kill pvp, and therefore the game as a whole)



there has been plenty of reasons why people have been against this aspect of the update. personally being on the bounty board does not bother me at all. i lived on there for a long time at one time. here is just a sampling of why it is a bad idea. and theses are my own personal perspectives, others will have more reasoning to add to it i am sure.

1) everyone keeps saying they dont want to "kill" PVP yet here is how i see it happening. person X makes a account and joins the game. they play for a while and level up and say get to level 100 (easy number) now they see PVP and thing "oh that looks fun" so they go and find someone with to much gold in hand and hit. lovely little deflect kicks in and so they get nothing. now in a hours time this player still has to much gold in hand so player X hits again (one very common reason for multi hits. tho not the only reason) now hit number 2 goes thru and player X takes a bit of gold. satisfied he goes offline to go live life for a few hours and comes back on to see 10 levels ripped off him (there are plenty of guilds that will, tho sadly far from enough are willing to)

now this is just one of a million ways it can go that would basically discourage player X from ever trying PVP in the first place when they may very well enjoy it and it may be the glue that keeps them playing and donating.

2) exact same scenario as above. i dont care if it is a new player or a seasoned pro. with the current set up. the current thief rates ect the gains for any hits are far from enough to be worth the risk of this. at best you lose around 10% of a level and lets face it a rather small chunk of gold as thief rates have just gotten pathetic really. so comes down to a why bother scenario and people move on and leave the game.

at best the punishment system that people in this thread are asking for is unbalanced, in some cases people are asking for what i can only describe as ludicrous.

if the cows are going to up the amount that we as PVPers lose then they need to up the gains from PVP. and it has to be enough to be worth even bothering other wise all they are doing is being detrimental to part of the game that a vast number of people greatly enjoy.

#399 fs_littledog9

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:18



i've yet to see any semblance of a reasonable explanation of why the penalty for multi hitting should remain the exact same as single hits anywhere in this thread (instead, it's a bunch of hyperbolized statements on how it will kill pvp, and therefore the game as a whole)



there has been plenty of reasons why people have been against this aspect of the update. personally being on the bounty board does not bother me at all. i lived on there for a long time at one time. here is just a sampling of why it is a bad idea. and theses are my own personal perspectives, others will have more reasoning to add to it i am sure.

1) everyone keeps saying they dont want to "kill" PVP yet here is how i see it happening. person X makes a account and joins the game. they play for a while and level up and say get to level 100 (easy number) now they see PVP and thing "oh that looks fun" so they go and find someone with to much gold in hand and hit. lovely little deflect kicks in and so they get nothing. now in a hours time this player still has to much gold in hand so player X hits again (one very common reason for multi hits. tho not the only reason) now hit number 2 goes thru and player X takes a bit of gold. satisfied he goes offline to go live life for a few hours and comes back on to see 10 levels ripped off him (there are plenty of guilds that will, tho sadly far from enough are willing to)

now this is just one of a million ways it can go that would basically discourage player X from ever trying PVP in the first place when they may very well enjoy it and it may be the glue that keeps them playing and donating.

2) exact same scenario as above. i dont care if it is a new player or a seasoned pro. with the current set up. the current thief rates ect the gains for any hits are far from enough to be worth the risk of this. at best you lose around 10% of a level and lets face it a rather small chunk of gold as thief rates have just gotten pathetic really. so comes down to a why bother scenario and people move on and leave the game.

at best the punishment system that people in this thread are asking for is unbalanced, in some cases people are asking for what i can only describe as ludicrous.

if the cows are going to up the amount that we as PVPers lose then they need to up the gains from PVP. and it has to be enough to be worth even bothering other wise all they are doing is being detrimental to part of the game that a vast number of people greatly enjoy.


guess this can be addressed by scenarios.

1. retribution on a single hit rarely goes to a deleveling party. i'm sure it may be different in your guild, but i'd never ask my mates to rip 5 off of someone for 1 hit. they have better things in the game to spend stam on. that's asking a lot to have multiple players spend 900 stamina per bounty. at least for me that is.

pvp is a more advanced realm of this game, and if you're not mentally prepared for the consequences, it may be a turnoff. not to say that one will be permanently turned off, you just have a better understanding of what it takes and costs. be prepared.

the big money is hitting players while they hunt, anyways. why does one need to keep picking on offline players to keep interested in the game?

2. read it a few times and i'm still unclear of what it means. not trying to be a prick, but it sounds like something to do with the present situation where someone realizes it may not be worth attacking someone else thus quitting the game?

the proposal here is far from unbalanced. 1:1 is about as balanced as you can get.

perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to go outside of this proposed change and allow attackers to gain some xp on a successful hit. nothing huge, but it could also find a new definition to the honor and gloat buffs that may need to be retooled in the near future as well.

for the record, i'm not anti pvp. it's actually one of the more fun aspects of the game that i'm looking forward to delving more into shortly. just don't see the sport in hitting offline players.

#400 vastilos

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:39

That's why I suggested that players that are logged out for a certain amount of time cannot be attacked.


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