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Developer Chat Notes (23/Mar/2012)


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#401 shdowdrgn

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:42



i've yet to see any semblance of a reasonable explanation of why the penalty for multi hitting should remain the exact same as single hits anywhere in this thread (instead, it's a bunch of hyperbolized statements on how it will kill pvp, and therefore the game as a whole)



there has been plenty of reasons why people have been against this aspect of the update. personally being on the bounty board does not bother me at all. i lived on there for a long time at one time. here is just a sampling of why it is a bad idea. and theses are my own personal perspectives, others will have more reasoning to add to it i am sure.

1) everyone keeps saying they dont want to "kill" PVP yet here is how i see it happening. person X makes a account and joins the game. they play for a while and level up and say get to level 100 (easy number) now they see PVP and thing "oh that looks fun" so they go and find someone with to much gold in hand and hit. lovely little deflect kicks in and so they get nothing. now in a hours time this player still has to much gold in hand so player X hits again (one very common reason for multi hits. tho not the only reason) now hit number 2 goes thru and player X takes a bit of gold. satisfied he goes offline to go live life for a few hours and comes back on to see 10 levels ripped off him (there are plenty of guilds that will, tho sadly far from enough are willing to)

now this is just one of a million ways it can go that would basically discourage player X from ever trying PVP in the first place when they may very well enjoy it and it may be the glue that keeps them playing and donating.

2) exact same scenario as above. i dont care if it is a new player or a seasoned pro. with the current set up. the current thief rates ect the gains for any hits are far from enough to be worth the risk of this. at best you lose around 10% of a level and lets face it a rather small chunk of gold as thief rates have just gotten pathetic really. so comes down to a why bother scenario and people move on and leave the game.

at best the punishment system that people in this thread are asking for is unbalanced, in some cases people are asking for what i can only describe as ludicrous.

if the cows are going to up the amount that we as PVPers lose then they need to up the gains from PVP. and it has to be enough to be worth even bothering other wise all they are doing is being detrimental to part of the game that a vast number of people greatly enjoy.


guess this can be addressed by scenarios.

1. retribution on a single hit rarely goes to a deleveling party. i'm sure it may be different in your guild, but i'd never ask my mates to rip 5 off of someone for 1 hit. they have better things in the game to spend stam on. that's asking a lot to have multiple players spend 900 stamina per bounty. at least for me that is.

pvp is a more advanced realm of this game, and if you're not mentally prepared for the consequences, it may be a turnoff. not to say that one will be permanently turned off, you just have a better understanding of what it takes and costs. be prepared.

the big money is hitting players while they hunt, anyways. why does one need to keep picking on offline players to keep interested in the game?

2. read it a few times and i'm still unclear of what it means. not trying to be a prick, but it sounds like something to do with the present situation where someone realizes it may not be worth attacking someone else thus quitting the game?

the proposal here is far from unbalanced. 1:1 is about as balanced as you can get.

perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to go outside of this proposed change and allow attackers to gain some xp on a successful hit. nothing huge, but it could also find a new definition to the honor and gloat buffs that may need to be retooled in the near future as well.

for the record, i'm not anti pvp. it's actually one of the more fun aspects of the game that i'm looking forward to delving more into shortly. just don't see the sport in hitting offline players.



not enough time ATM to respond to this whole thing but..... where did i say anything about hitting offline players. you say that multiple times in your post. i put a reasonable and logical response that clearly a couple reasons that the update is detrimental and you go on about the reasons for not hitting someone offline?

#402 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:45

Isn't the discussion regarding "Every hit can be bountied" meant to be being conducted in the other thread?

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#403 fs_littledog9

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:04

not enough time ATM to respond to this whole thing but..... where di i say anything about hitting offline players. you say that multiple times in your post. i put a reasonable and logical response that clearly a couple reasons that the update is detrimental and you go on about the reasons for not hitting someone offline?


how else can someone rack up hits without risk of bounty?

this update only addresses sequential hits and giving a target the ability to bounty more hits than the most recent. it's one of those things that seems so logical that most are surprised that it wasn't implemented from the start.

#404 Belaric

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:10

I love you all. You are all my fellow Fallen Sword Players.

You continue to argue over minutiae. Chumanas vs some other dumbass set phhhffffttttsss.

What is at stake here is the game as a viable entity. Could you all please stop fighting your corners and realise that fact?

I find it astonishing to watch sophisticated arguments about what might happen three and four consequence doors down between guilds/individuals, and yet that same sophistication is not applied to the game as a whole.

Think. If an ecosystem exists where there is an ever dwindling number of targets, and the answer is to give hunters a bigger range of fewer targets, what is the result? No Cod Suppers. (to explain - you overfish the big boys - they go away, so you double down on the next best thing - but life is like FS, you cannot level on something 3+ levels below you.) This game may be existing on the good will of the few remaining cod. It certainly is not inviting new whiting into the game.

You can argue about guilds protecting their own, you can equivocate over what it is to "hit back" but a lot of you do not seem to realise that the whole structure is dying. I am on the side of keeping all of your arguments alive. I want you to pointlessly disagree over nothing if it means the game is living. It seems to me you would rather win an argument today and lose the point of reference tomorrow.

You would rather win your argument and kill the game with your victory.

I say this to both the PvP crowd and the leaveusalone levellers.

We live in the universe the Cows give us. Stop blaming each other.

If you get this far, remember rule #1

ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME!

Shardoom, if you are reading this, something very far away, but very dear to you, is on fire. Sorry.

#405 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:13

My pie!!

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#406 Maehdros

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:17

Think. If an ecosystem exists where there is an ever dwindling number of targets, and the answer is to give hunters a bigger range of fewer targets, what is the result? No Cod Suppers. (to explain - you overfish the big boys - they go away, so you double down on the next best thing -



That actually happened where i am from ;) ( sorry for bein offtopic) but I had to post!

#407 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:17

On a more serious note, Belaric I agree with you completely. FS is currently standing on the edge of oblivion, spitting.

I kind of like your idea for giving lower players masses of stamina. However, I can already see what the response would be from anyone 500+, I would hope that Hoof would be able to just stamp his foot down and make it so, but, the amount of people screaming "unfair" and "where is mine" would truly be something to behold.

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#408 markaaron

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:18

i like the ides for gvg would make it much more interesting for higher level players to get involved in GVG.
How ever for the pvp ladder i think there should be some kind of reward for winning an incoming attack. From what i understand if a player hits you and loses they lost that stamina from there 500 they can use. but should we get a point for it too?

#409 vastilos

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:19

What the cows could do is when they release an update, give an explanation for each update (except the content release, everyone knows what that is for). That way, everyone has an understanding as to why the cows did that particular update.

#410 Maehdros

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:22

i like the ides for gvg would make it much more interesting for higher level players to get involved in GVG.
How ever for the pvp ladder i think there should be some kind of reward for winning an incoming attack. From what i understand if a player hits you and loses they lost that stamina from there 500 they can use. but should we get a point for it too?



I beleive they intended it to work the following way:


Myself and mark have 5 targets each.


I hit 5 of them ( 5 times each) and gain 16 points from each of them ( I win 4 100 stams, I lose 1) 4 x 4 = 16


Mark hits 5 of them ( 5 times each) and gains the maximum 20 from them( 5 100 stams x 4 = 20 points per player)


at the reset I have 96 points, mark has 100, he gets first.



How about something along the lines of, IF you lose an attack, you lose the points you would stand to gain? IE: If i 100 stam someone and lose, I lose 4 score ( defender still gains nothing, but it gives a reason to try and make attackers lose)

Thoughts?

#411 fs_littledog9

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:22

Isn't the discussion regarding "Every hit can be bountied" meant to be being conducted in the other thread?


crap. there's ANOTHER thread? :shock:

#412 shdowdrgn

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:25

i like the ides for gvg would make it much more interesting for higher level players to get involved in GVG.
How ever for the pvp ladder i think there should be some kind of reward for winning an incoming attack. From what i understand if a player hits you and loses they lost that stamina from there 500 they can use. but should we get a point for it too?



I beleive they intended it to work the following way:


Myself and mark have 5 targets each.


I hit 5 of them ( 5 times each) and gain 16 points from each of them ( I win 4 100 stams, I lose 1) 4 x 4 = 16


Mark hits 5 of them ( 5 times each) and gains the maximum 20 from them( 5 100 stams x 4 = 20 points per player)


at the reset I have 96 points, mark has 100, he gets first.



How about something along the lines of, IF you lose an attack, you lose the points you would stand to gain? IE: If i 100 stam someone and lose, I lose 4 score ( defender still gains nothing, but it gives a reason to try and make attackers lose)

Thoughts?



i like this. there needs to be proper reason to defend. however i still have a really hard time getting behind limiting the number of hits you can do on the ladder.

#413 Maehdros

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:27

i like the ides for gvg would make it much more interesting for higher level players to get involved in GVG.
How ever for the pvp ladder i think there should be some kind of reward for winning an incoming attack. From what i understand if a player hits you and loses they lost that stamina from there 500 they can use. but should we get a point for it too?



I beleive they intended it to work the following way:


Myself and mark have 5 targets each.


I hit 5 of them ( 5 times each) and gain 16 points from each of them ( I win 4 100 stams, I lose 1) 4 x 4 = 16


Mark hits 5 of them ( 5 times each) and gains the maximum 20 from them( 5 100 stams x 4 = 20 points per player)


at the reset I have 96 points, mark has 100, he gets first.



How about something along the lines of, IF you lose an attack, you lose the points you would stand to gain? IE: If i 100 stam someone and lose, I lose 4 score ( defender still gains nothing, but it gives a reason to try and make attackers lose)

Thoughts?



i like this. there needs to be proper reason to defend. however i still have a really hard time getting behind limiting the number of hits you can do on the ladder.




I honestly deep down, dont like the limit on hits ( people will wait to get their 5 hits offline over the span of 24 hours), But its a compromise I would make, IF they address bounties and so on properly. Just my opinion.

#414 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:30

Isn't the discussion regarding "Every hit can be bountied" meant to be being conducted in the other thread?


crap. there's ANOTHER thread? :shock:


LOL I'm afraid so :P

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#415 Maehdros

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:31

Isn't the discussion regarding "Every hit can be bountied" meant to be being conducted in the other thread?


crap. there's ANOTHER thread? :shock:


LOL I'm afraid so :P



Yeah +1 try sippin on a drink, and responding to the same player on two separate threads... it can be confusing as heck :| :lol:

#416 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:32

Yeah +1 try sippin on a drink, and responding to the same player on two separate threads... it can be confusing as heck :| :lol:


Now imagine how I feel, same scenario but wayyyy out of practice. ;)

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#417 Belaric

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:45

On a more serious note, Belaric I agree with you completely. FS is currently standing on the edge of oblivion, spitting.

I kind of like your idea for giving lower players masses of stamina. However, I can already see what the response would be from anyone 500+, I would hope that Hoof would be able to just stamp his foot down and make it so, but, the amount of people screaming "unfair" and "where is mine" would truly be something to behold.


Your pie was burned to perfection.

To recap to the uninitiated, and this is something I would like seriously debated, I believe that Fallen Sword is an amazing game. But it is dying now because there is no incentive for new players to play for more than 15 minutes.

I would like unlimited stam for all below level 500. Once you get to 500, normal stam gain rules apply. But everyone has a lot of advance warning. Anyone who has already got past 500? My first instinct is tough toenails. My second is that the cows can give HUGE amounts of reserve stam, but only over time. It will be a timed stam bank to those players who actually care, and if the timed bank is not spent as allocated, it is deleted. So if you are active you will use it, if you are one of those folk who log in to say "Hey! I have 13K reserve stam!" You get zero if you wait too long.

This is way off topic.

#418 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:53

Your pie was burned to perfection.

To recap to the uninitiated, and this is something I would like seriously debated, I believe that Fallen Sword is an amazing game. But it is dying now because there is no incentive for new players to play for more than 15 minutes.

I would like unlimited stam for all below level 500. Once you get to 500, normal stam gain rules apply. But everyone has a lot of advance warning. Anyone who has already got past 500? My first instinct is tough toenails. My second is that the cows can give HUGE amounts of reserve stam, but only over time. It will be a timed stam bank to those players who actually care, and if the timed bank is not spent as allocated, it is deleted. So if you are active you will use it, if you are one of those folk who log in to say "Hey! I have 13K reserve stam!" You get zero if you wait too long.

This is way off topic.


Interesting idea actually, not only does it make the earlier stages of the game much more compelling, it also gives a good reason for players above the 'free' stam levels to log in. (for however long the reserve stamina era lasts)

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#419 MummRa

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:23

Your pie was burned to perfection.

To recap to the uninitiated, and this is something I would like seriously debated, I believe that Fallen Sword is an amazing game. But it is dying now because there is no incentive for new players to play for more than 15 minutes.

I would like unlimited stam for all below level 500. Once you get to 500, normal stam gain rules apply. But everyone has a lot of advance warning. Anyone who has already got past 500? My first instinct is tough toenails. My second is that the cows can give HUGE amounts of reserve stam, but only over time. It will be a timed stam bank to those players who actually care, and if the timed bank is not spent as allocated, it is deleted. So if you are active you will use it, if you are one of those folk who log in to say "Hey! I have 13K reserve stam!" You get zero if you wait too long.

This is way off topic.


Interesting idea actually, not only does it make the earlier stages of the game much more compelling, it also gives a good reason for players above the 'free' stam levels to log in. (for however long the reserve stamina era lasts)


the only thing I'd say is 500 might be a little to high at that point, if you are going to do that I think it should be at least before Xind

#420 Belaric

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:38

I get your point - but Xind will be hellacious with everyone trying to blast through it, and spawns unchanged - I think it would remain an excellent proving ground, even in the free stam era. To 400? Fine. I'd rather to 500 (and I spent real money getting to 500 in 1 year - I'm giving that up to new players for free (as an idea) because I want the game to survive!!) My overriding issue is to keep the game viable. Suggesting improvements that makes current players fight among themselves is not the way to go. Other online games make more content free as it becomes obsolete - why not this one?


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