Jump to content

Photo

Forum Issues - As "I" perceive them ..


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 27 March 2012 - 00:05

The biggest problems I see with the forum are :-

1. The cows are nowhere near active enough on them ...

2. For threads they start there is "limited" involvement, often leaving more questions unanswered than there are answered ones

3. For threads they don't start, there is almost ZERO involvement. Whilst I don't expect them to get involved in the general "my dog had puppies" and "I reached puberty yesterday" type of threads, I would like to see threads that offer another perspective to the game encouraged AND REPLIED TO. There are MANY threads listed in the forums here that offer new twists on gameplay, or suggestions on how to improve existing things, but these all too often, fall by the wayside - either ignored by the cows or, at least, uncommented on by the cows.

4. Worst of all, threads that DO get cow involvement, with a "promise" to action them STILL quite often get forgotten about. Just looking through the forum will show what I mean. If necessary, I can provide examples, but it's just as easy for the cows to trawl thru THEIR forum and find them as it is for me to do that.

5. I know, an old chestnut, but, the lack of forum mods. I know we can flag up threads to their attention and they'll eventually get looked at, but by then, a lot of them have degenerated into a "my woohoo is bigger than your woohoo" type of thread, and the damage is already done. Having forum mods online would nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand. I also know that the cows keep saying they won't reintroduce more mods - but I still feel that this is a mistake on their behalf.

I appreciate that you (as in the cows) are busy with other things - and I also appreciate all the fine work you are doing on the game, but, the forum is, for most of us, our sole communication with you as the developers - and too often we are ignored which leads to disillusionment and probably, a drop in game revenues for you.

After all, we are your customers - we should have more dialog back and forth :)

#2 kisoku

kisoku

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 728 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 00:33

I agree with everything said above, We need more staff or more of your attention on forum changes, Ive seen multiple amounts of times, Were a ""Forum admin"" Or Game Admin, VIew a forum, For a good 5-15 minutes ,adn dont even say nothing, They just leave. Which is obvious to be reading and not replying, or you didnt feel you had the time...

The game needs change, Lets be honest, their use to be 10x more users, It use to be a very fun and great community, And now its dying before our very eyes, From what i see.. Ive been here for what nearly 4-5 years, Sure i havent gone far, as some of my friends, and people who have been here less time, Or even longer then me, But im still a player, Who is daily Active, Who enjoys this game, More then most MMORPG's even with graphics that i can play. I spend most my time here.

Change is needed?.


I also appreciate what you do for us, When you do change things, and do pay attention, But i think more is needed, More Forum Moderation. Their is many users on this forums who are only 5+ hours a day, Who could even help out.


~Edit~ And sorry Para, If i am intrudeing on your topic, With nonsense, But since you were speaking your own mind i thought i should speak mine as well, I think this topic ill pay much attention to.

o7Yo7oJ.png

 


#3 evilbry

evilbry

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,172 posts
  • New Zealand

Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:41

Pard: The core of many problems stem from the players themselves. Could mods fix this? Possibly. We shouldn't really need it though.

We see time and time again threads getting derailed and often spiral out of control due to the way that some players approach the forums. Could this be the result of frustrations from HCS? Possibly.

Just take a moment and think to yourself, how many times have you looked at a thread and thought "It's no wonder HCS aren't more involved with rubbish like this"?


However, with that said.
Many things have fed the problems on the forums, such little things as the quality of support tickets leading to players trying to catch the cows on the forums to try and get issues addressed. Or how often have we seen an update thread from the cows and a few posts in "Hi Hoof, look at my ticket xxxxxxx. No one has responded in yy days." The fact that HCS then acknowledge and deal with the tickets only makes matters worse.

#4 KitiaraLi

KitiaraLi

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Denmark

Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:51

6. When HCS starts a new thread for discussion, they do it with little information and with such a lack of details, that a flame war is inevitable.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#5 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:03

Pard: The core of many problems stem from the players themselves. Could mods fix this? Possibly. We shouldn't really need it though.


Shouldn't ? - agreed - but, unfortunately we do ...

We see time and time again threads getting derailed and often spiral out of control due to the way that some players approach the forums. Could this be the result of frustrations from HCS? Possibly.
Just take a moment and think to yourself, how many times have you looked at a thread and thought "It's no wonder HCS aren't more involved with rubbish like this"?


Agreed again - but with more cow involvement and/or mods, crap like that could be nipped in the bud before it escalates which is so often the case now ..

However, with that said.
Many things have fed the problems on the forums, such little things as the quality of support tickets leading to players trying to catch the cows on the forums to try and get issues addressed. Or how often have we seen an update thread from the cows and a few posts in "Hi Hoof, look at my ticket xxxxxxx. No one has responded in yy days." The fact that HCS then acknowledge and deal with the tickets only makes matters worse.


Yet again, no argument from me..

The cows have to start to realise that we are their customers and without our goodwill, they have no game (and, by association, no income).

#6 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 27 March 2012 - 19:51

Wot ? - No more comments ? - thought this would get more player attention... :)

#7 Bleltch

Bleltch

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,784 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 20:05

Wot ? - No more comments ? - thought this would get more player attention... :)

It's an old subject, players are tired of going on about it for the most part.

#8 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 27 March 2012 - 20:15

Wot ? - No more comments ? - thought this would get more player attention... :)

It's an old subject, players are tired of going on about it for the most part.



You may well have a point there bletch ... still, I don't mind flogging an almost dead horse if there's a chance of someone noticing :)

#9 kisoku

kisoku

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 728 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 21:12

Wot ? - No more comments ? - thought this would get more player attention... :)

It's an old subject, players are tired of going on about it for the most part.



You may well have a point there bletch ... still, I don't mind flogging an almost dead horse if there's a chance of someone noticing :)


I agree with this as well, And their went another admin. Who read the topic. Come on anyone gonna throw some cents in, The more added, The more people will get attention. Just 2-4 isnt gonna do nothing but start a small tea chat.

o7Yo7oJ.png

 


#10 Kayesha

Kayesha

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,030 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 28 March 2012 - 00:28

I haven't been real active in a long while but, I have been around for a long time and this is something that has been an issue for.. well as long as I have been here. I think the cows have noticed. I just don't think they are willing to change. They believe they are doing what is best for thier game, which I appriciate the effort.

I honestly agree with everything said here but, just like any business, they will do what they think is the most profitable for them. I just think that they see the forums as a secondary item and not a place to focus thier resources. I personally believe that they are overlooking the fact that this is where the people who pay money ingame go to "fix issues" that do not require a ticket. and that directly impacts thier cash flow. They just dont see it that way and in the end I don't think they ever will.

*Rant Ended*

I think it is a good idea to remind them that we feel this way though :)

#11 lordthade

lordthade

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 529 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:02

I would say the biggest problem is that, particularly over the last few months, the overwhelming amount of feedback being requested seems to be in regard to PvP/GvG.

It bears pointing out that most of the Fallen Sword population take part in neither activity. They simply have no vested interest in the discussion. While I like the idea of the developer chats recently, there's simply nothing I would want to try to contribute. *shrugs*

#12 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:06

I would say the biggest problem is that, particularly over the last few months, the overwhelming amount of feedback being requested seems to be in regard to PvP/GvG.

It bears pointing out that most of the Fallen Sword population take part in neither activity. They simply have no vested interest in the discussion. While I like the idea of the developer chats recently, there's simply nothing I would want to try to contribute. *shrugs*


You're missing the point ;) - the point is, even in those examples where the cows request contributions, too often it's ignored and/or leaves far more questions unanswered than answered.

This isn't about player contribution to the forums, this is all about the cows being far more active here and doing a more thorough job .. in policing, in following up threads they start, in following up on threads where they promise action and in encouraging good ideas that are posted on here (yes, in amongst the detritus, there ARE good ideas that all too often fall by the wayside - ignored)

#13 cyrus7

cyrus7

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,562 posts
  • Badge
  • United States of America

Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:54

Wot ? - No more comments ? - thought this would get more player attention...

It's an old subject, players are tired of going on about it for the most part.

Yep that's pretty much it. We tried, we've had multiple threads of multiple pages, and all ended the same way: either responded to with "we're keeping it this way" or just ignored. That's why I didn't reply to this thread originally; I'm just out of energy. I don't even read much on the forum anymore due to all the noise.

#14 lordthade

lordthade

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 529 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 16:00

Well, in my experiences with other games and comparing to this I think the Cows are incredibly involved and--except on weekends-- usually pretty easy to reach.

Mods would be nice.

A sort of ban-hammer for a select few players when the multis come out on the weekends would be nice, as well.

Frankly, given what these threads generally degenerate into, I'm amazed the Cows even try to respond to some o' the threads. When they ASK for input, they respond. After about 5 or 6 pages of people responding to each other and less frequently to the purpose of the thread, I suspect they largely give up stirring the pot. I don't have a problem with that. Could they implement faster? I don't know. I'm not a coder/developer-type. I imagine they have meetings and propose some of the feedback and we're not privy to the conversations but THEIR priority list is not OUR priority list. :wink:

#15 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:54

Well, in my experiences with other games and comparing to this I think the Cows are incredibly involved and--except on weekends-- usually pretty easy to reach.

Mods would be nice.

A sort of ban-hammer for a select few players when the multis come out on the weekends would be nice, as well.

Frankly, given what these threads generally degenerate into, I'm amazed the Cows even try to respond to some o' the threads. When they ASK for input, they respond (SOMETIMES). After about 5 or 6 pages of people responding to each other and less frequently to the purpose of the thread, I suspect they largely give up stirring the pot. I don't have a problem with that. Could they implement faster? I don't know. I'm not a coder/developer-type. I imagine they have meetings and propose some of the feedback and we're not privy to the conversations but THEIR priority list is not OUR priority list. :wink:


Corrected for you ;)

The whole point of this thread is, at the risk of repeating myself, for them to be FAR MORE active on the forums, keeping a tighter rein on things so that things like you mention above aren't allowed to happen. That way, the whole forum experience would be better for them AND for us.

But, it's a pretty sad indictment that a thread pointing out forum issues to the cow (as perceived by myself and, it seems, a few others) falls into the very same hole that I say a lot of other threads fall into - that of lack of cow involvement.

But, I suppose, at the end of the day, it's their game, to do with as they wish - and only they know if the revenue streams are up or down on 12 months ago. Personally tho, I'm betting they're way down, because of the frequency now of special offers and they have to be further sweetened now by uber-potions to make folk part with their hard-earned money.

#16 lordthade

lordthade

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 529 posts

Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:59

I disagree.

For instance... why the HECK would they respond to this thread? They can't win.

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Just my opinion.

#17 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:06

I disagree.

For instance... why the HECK would they respond to this thread? They can't win.

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Just my opinion.


There is no win here - other than them being more involved - then everyone wins.

But perceive it as you will - 'tis your right here, just as it is anyone elses :)

#18 Zukira

Zukira

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,991 posts
  • Badge
  • United States of America

Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:35

Ok here is a for instance. And bear in mind, I was a player mod when they had players moderating.


Suppose, a player moderator decides that you have been warned enough and there is no other option but to ban you from the forum until the Cows can deal with you.

You'd be a little pissed, but then it is only the forum right?

Wrong.

Player mods because of how the game is coded/linked to the forum and the limited access a moderator had to tools -really- did not want to have to ban ever. Why? Because if we had to ban you on the forum you would not be able to access the game either until an HCS staff member could deal with the situation.

Bad enough right? Now imagine if you were selling stuff or buying stuff on the AH, had a big bunch of stuff or just one or two really expensive items in your mailbox when this happened. If it took more than the time on your mailbox .... you lost those items.... because a PLAYER - who just happened to be a moderator too, had to ban you on the forum. Livid right? Sure make sense to be.

Now, factor in that we 'donate' to get those fsp that you might have spent on items that just got flushed down the tubes because of the situation - you can equate those digital bits of code to real money. Now you're really pissed right? I mean seeing red in some cases. You're seeing red, you're mad as all hell. You want your stuff back NOW! So you go off on the cows, on mods, on the game.

Now, since it could impact your game play, hcs's bank account, etc etc it causes an issue. One that by doing away with mods they solved.


Now here's something to chew on:

What if one of us player mods had been hacked or had gotten it into our heads that we were just going to go postal as it were and wreck a bunch of havoc? We knew the potential for banning players that we had right at our fingertips. What if we decided to hunt and search through the forum for that one post by anyone we ever took even the slightest dislike to and clicked that ban button?

Boils down to at least for general moderation, that the risk vs the benefits just wasn't there if you think about all those things.

When it comes down to cases, other than the once in a blue moon instance where someone is posting porn or scams things can be ok. If you use mod summon things get taken care of semi-timely and generally if someone who knows about how to use the ignore function on the forum is around they can post what to do to block yourself from seeing the offensive stuff. Although it would be nice to not need a bunch of threads necro-bumped or just junk threads being made to bury offensive or scam content in the time between reporting a problem on the forum and it being handled.

I -do- think the suggestions section should not have been merged with general. Frankly that has led to no end of issues with stuff getting buried that shouldn't be. People complained that only when they 'accidentially' posted a suggestion in general did it get any attention though. So, the sections are merged now. Seen any improvement? I don't think so. Personally I think ideas get lost much easier now.

zukira.gif

|| signature rotates, artists varied ||

Fan my art on Facebook  || Deviant Art || Chat on Irc

 

When in doubt, lean to the side of mercy.

                                                                               - Cevantes


#19 DragonLord

DragonLord

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts
  • Australia

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:09

Zukira,

I take your points and accept them (to a point) - and mods, for me, was a scenario that was better than nothing, but not ideal. Are there problems with mods, yes - but then the cows would have ideally vetted them properly and would trust their judgment (and posted a clear, concise set of forum rules). Then, if someone crossed those rules and still crossed them after being warned by a mod, then, I have to say, any loss they suffered would be their own fault.

My preference would be though, as I've stated in my first point of my original post, for them just to be far more active - then the need for player mods would evaporate into the mist.

The problem is tho, that they aren't active enough (especially over the weekends) and threads degenerate into "my doodah is bigger than your doodah" all too easily. Around 12 months ago (I think it was) Hoof mentioned something about having support 24/7, 7 days a week - that didn't materialise. If it had have, we'd not be in this situation I feel.

The whole premise of my post was to try and get the cows more involved on the forums - so that they can run them more tightly, take care of the problems that arise in a timely manner and encourage players to participate again - something that a lot no longer do, because of the (perceived?) lack of interest/involvement from the cows. I think everyone agrees on getting the cows more involved - even if they don't agree on the problems I see here.

If they were more active and kept a tighter rein on it then threads would be more regulated, off-topic posts removed (or relocated), trolling & necro posting limited/stopped, and everything would be, IMO, much more user-friendly.

#20 fs_siredwen

fs_siredwen
  • Guests

Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:40

You all are right the cows started up sigma storm 2 and then dropped all of use that that play on it to come back here to make the game better here , But of what i have seen the new ideas are being put on areas that most players do not do ie: the caves and the battle areana or pvp. i have seen a lot of good players leave the game for all the junk as they seen put in the game for what was called a gold sinking item


Just my thoughts and what i was told by players that are now inactive


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Font:
Arial | Calibri | Lucida Console | Verdana
 
Font Size:
9px | 10px | 11px | 12px | 10pt | 12pt
 
Color: