How is saying something isn't entirely inaccurate anywhere near the same as thing as saying it is the best option?
You're not making any sense now. I'm quite busy and not interesting in strawman arguments.
Posted 30 March 2012 - 23:54
How is saying something isn't entirely inaccurate anywhere near the same as thing as saying it is the best option?
Posted 30 March 2012 - 23:55
Yes I believe you are. It has always been the same song and verse. Levelers crying b/c lost xp. Pvpers crying b/c hands are cuffed on who we can hit.
I think if you choose to level, there should be an option. when you choose this option it allow 0 xp to be taken from you in lost PvP combat, BUT you only gain 1/4 of the gold you normally did when hunting.
And the same for PvP.. there should be an option that when chosen will allow you to hit anyone, anylevel BUT if you are hitting outside of the +/- 10 level range you only take 1/4 of the gold you would normally take.
So if you are content with the way hunting/pvp is now, you have the choice for it to stay the same, if you want more the safety net (for levelers) or a free hand (for pvpers) it is an option you can choose much like the PvP ladder.
Damn good idea Bill
I'm not sure I'm understanding that idea correctly?
You propose a non pvp player gives up 3/4 of his/her gold to remain safe from a pvp player. While on the other hand a pvp player +/- 10 level range would remain unchanged. He/she would also be able to hit any level he/she chose but at a reduced amount?
So the non-pvp player gives up gold.
The pvp player gives up nothing from how things currently stand but gives up a portion of the gold from his massively expanded hitting range?
I've been drinking a lot of coffee and killing stuff on my PS3 today so my brain isn't 100%, that can't be what you meant?
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:00
How is saying something isn't entirely inaccurate anywhere near the same as thing as saying it is the best option?
You're not making any sense now. I'm quite busy and not interesting in strawman arguments.
Considering levelers are the ones that care the most about XP and are the ones most likely to have gold on hand I'd say PvPers vs. Levelers isn't that inaccurate.
Because you assume people who level up don't do anything else and therefore the 'label' leveller fits just fine?
I thought the non pvp participants were meant to be the prejudiced ones? O.o
And I had an idea. How about instead of completely catering to levelers you give some time for a real compromise. How about make the Smasher medal only count on 100 stams on players online? Then the excuses about not being able to defend are gone.
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:01
People seem to forget that this is a GAME.
Comparing PvP or any aspect of a GAME to Real life is like, as Einstein put it, judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree.
were you actually reading THIS page of the debate?
we have kinda moved away from that, sorry mate

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:11
Yes, I have been reading right up to this page and yes, it still applies. People are acting like it is the end of the world and like it is Do or Die and of real life importance but it isn't. Someone gets invested enough emotionally in something and they lose perspective.
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:14
Hold on, I'm trying to decide whether this statement is worth a well thought out response.
Of course, if it explains adequately why the terms, pvp'er vs leveller are a better fit than pvp player vs non pvp player, I'd be happy to here it. At least then I'd understand?
How is saying something isn't entirely inaccurate anywhere near the same as thing as saying it is the best option?
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Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:18
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:19
As mentioned earlier, PvP is the only aspect of this game where one player comes away having suffered loss where they have not specifically chosen to enter into that risk. Therefore to describe the factions here as PvPers and Non PvPers is the most accurate statement that can be achieved and to dispute it is simply frivolous at best and flaming at worst
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:23
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:25
Yes I believe you are. It has always been the same song and verse. Levelers crying b/c lost xp. Pvpers crying b/c hands are cuffed on who we can hit.
I thought at that time it was open season on anyone with enough gold. At that time though levelers would deal out the justice that PvPers are wanting them to try and do now. I dont believe that the levelers were the ones being deleveled out of pvp range. Levelers hands are effectively tied as it sits now. They go to the BB to take 5 from a player, then the players guild feels that he has been wrongly deleveled. Bounties are placed and x number of levelers have lost 5. Its a vicious cycle that levelers know that they will never win. so they dont try.
Back then it wasnt a big deal to lose a couple levels, you would just get it back on the next hunt. I believe that is how PvPers look at it now too. Now there are too many high level characters and people dont want to lose the time they have invested in them. Easy work or hard work it is still their time that is invested
I think if you choose to level, there should be an option. when you choose this option it allow 0 xp to be taken from you in lost PvP combat, BUT you only gain 1/4 of the gold you normally did when hunting.
No, XP must be lost. Why would anyone give up that much gold
why MUST XP be lost? there is no reason for it
It needs XP loss because hardly anyone will bounty for just losing gold. I know for a fact that I wouldn't. The point of all of this is to add new directions to the game. XP loss encourages the BB and wont kill anyone.
And the same for PvP.. there should be an option that when chosen will allow you to hit anyone, anylevel BUT if you are hitting outside of the +/- 10 level range you only take 1/4 of the gold you would normally take.
I like the idea of expanding the level ranges and reducing the amount of gold and XP taken, but only up t a limited range. Say +/- 20 and after that its not possible to hit them. It would be a sliding scale +/- 10 normal +/- 12 drops 2% +/- 14 drops another 2% and so on.
So if you are content with the way hunting/pvp is now, you have the choice for it to stay the same, if you want more the safety net (for levelers) or a free hand (for pvpers) it is an option you can choose much like the PvP ladder.
Damn good idea Bill
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:39
Really, Cows? Really??? We have a bounty medal. We have a dominance medal (which can only be obtained on the PvP ladder)... Now you introduce something that a LOT of us have been waiting for, only to take it away because a few people complain about getting hit?? ...............................This is a PvP based game! They have the option of buying PvP protection, if they don't want to get hit! ...................................
Posted 31 March 2012 - 00:52
As mentioned earlier, PvP is the only aspect of this game where one player comes away having suffered loss where they have not specifically chosen to enter into that risk. Therefore to describe the factions here as PvPers and Non PvPers is the most accurate statement that can be achieved and to dispute it is simply frivolous at best and flaming at worst
Actually you did choose to enter that risk the second you clicked sign up. And I never said it was better to say levelers vs. PvPers than PvPers vs. Non-PvPers. Please stop putting words in my mouth, it makes you look ignorant.
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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:08
As mentioned earlier, PvP is the only aspect of this game where one player comes away having suffered loss where they have not specifically chosen to enter into that risk. Therefore to describe the factions here as PvPers and Non PvPers is the most accurate statement that can be achieved and to dispute it is simply frivolous at best and flaming at worst
Actually you did choose to enter that risk the second you clicked sign up. And I never said it was better to say levelers vs. PvPers than PvPers vs. Non-PvPers. Please stop putting words in my mouth, it makes you look ignorant.
Actually its your ignorance that you highlight here. It was you that decided to contest unnecessarily and without any considered foundation what was a well considered and clearly expressed point of view.
I never "contested" it. I simply said that it wasn't completely inaccurate to say it differently. Which it wasn't.
As to your comments regarding my entry, I suggest you read more carefully, as you show your ignorance once more. I clearly stated that PVP is the only aspect of the game where one player has not specifically chosen to enter into that risk. A PvP attack and its effects is the result of the actions of the attacking player only, and whilst everybody is aware and agrees to be involved in the PvP system when they start playing the game, the defending player did not choose to enter into that particular combat, rather, they were forced to.
Yeah. I've only had 4 years to figure out this game, I have no idea what I'm talking about. :roll:
And no you made no inclination that you specifically meant a certain combat, you said, and I quote "PvP is the only aspect of this game where one player comes away having suffered loss where they have not specifically chosen to enter into that risk". That to me reads as saying it is the only aspect where players haven't specifically chosen to take part. But in reality they did. It's like joining a football league (American) and saying you just want to catch and throw, but not get tackled. If you're gonna play, it's all or nothing. Actually strike that, you do have the option, it's called PvP protection. It is bad enough they went against their word and put it in, now people want an even better win button.
I did not state that anyone had not agreed to participate in PvP, just that its mechanics are different from every other action that one may undertake within the game and as such sets itself aside along with those that embrace it above all other facets of the game.
And Arena has completely different mechanics than other aspects of the game. I fail to see the relevance in this. If the mechanics weren't different, than what would be the point of adding it?
I'm more than happy to discuss and debate as long as you bring something constructive to the table, though right now i'm tired and off to bed and will review the topic again in the morning I think, nite all!
Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:10
Now you introduce something that a LOT of us have been waiting for, only to take it away because a few people complain about getting hit?? !
Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:13
So it's the victim's fault for making themselves too attractive? I have another example for you then, going by this rationale if a girl makes herself look pretty and then goes out partying, it's fair game to assault her, because she shouldn't have made herself such an attractive target?
There has already been a post removed from this topic by someone comparing pvp to rape. I'll say the same thing now that I did before. As a rape survivor, I find it horrific and disgusting that anyone would have the audacity to compare such a brutal and horrible real life act to anything done in a game. This is a game. Not real life, no harm is done to anyone personally. It is just a game. Big difference. And something alot of you would benefit from realizing.
I'm a pvp player. I don't usually hit for gold. But I darn sure hit to defend my friends, my guild, and whatever reason fits the situation at the time. In real life, I'm a nurse. I take care of sick and dying people and give my all to giving back to the community. So because I hit in a game, I'm a bully, a thug, a jerk, and whatever else name calling you people feel fits? Step back for a minute and really think about the things you are saying. Seriously.
You were aware of PvP when you signed up. Any complaints about not wanting to be forced into are moot. End of story.
And I had an idea. How about instead of completely catering to levelers you give some time for a real compromise. How about make the Smasher medal only count on 100 stams on players online? Then the excuses about not being able to defend are gone. May have been suggested before, I really don't want to read through 16 pages.
And please stop with the comments on PvP being amoral and selfish. My god get over yourselves, its a game. :roll:
Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:18
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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:22
And I had an idea. How about instead of completely catering to levelers you give some time for a real compromise. How about make the Smasher medal only count on 100 stams on players online? Then the excuses about not being able to defend are gone. May have been suggested before, I really don't want to read through 16 pages.
And please stop with the comments on PvP being amoral and selfish. My god get over yourselves, its a game. :roll:
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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:24
We've been listening to everyone's feedback regarding the PvP Smasher Medal / Top Rated and as such have changed it from normal PvP attacks to PvP Ladder and Bounty attacks only.
We realize that not everyone is interested in PvP and we feel this will make the medal more about PvP for those who are interested in it and not affect players who aren't.
Hoof, just my thoughts here and i am sure others have said this but you linked the medal to 2 parts of the game that already have medal rewards. now i am not saying that hits on the ladder or on the BB shouldn't count on this medal but putting this medal into play and linking it to only these 2 things is kind of a double pay out in my personal opinion. My thought would have been to leave it as it was for 1 or 2 weeks and then see where it all stands. at that point the people that only wanted bronze would have it and things would have died down a bit and you could see where it was going to stand a little more long term (at least a little better chance of that anyway) Personally when it first started i initially thought something was wrong as it seemed to easy and fast to get and maybe there in lies the matter. perhaps the numbers for it should have been left higher requiring more work to attain so the people that only wanted it just to have another medal, rather than earn something that has been missing, would not have jumped so fast (if that makes sense to anyone but me lol) Ether way, anytime something new comes out everyone rushes to do it and it is madness for at least a couple days and then it settles and soon only the people that truly care about it are going for it. just something to consider.
As well as this, we've also tweaked the target for the current Global Quest so that each tier will now require 1.5 million kills instead of 2 million as we feel this target is more achievable!
This is fair enough to be sure. it helps encourage people if they feel the numbers are achievable
Finally, we've also been discussing the developer chats and due to the number of users having problems connecting to IRC, we have decided to host the next developer chat within the game so more players will be able to join in! We'll post on the news once we have decided when the next chat will be scheduled.
Hoof? THANK YOU! now i cant wait for the next Dev chat. if it is at a time that i can possibly free up you can bet i will be there with bells on!
~ The Fallen Sword Team
Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:29
Now you introduce something that a LOT of us have been waiting for, only to take it away because a few people complain about getting hit?? !
It was a lot more then "a few people". In the poll asking if the smasher medal should stay, %58 said NO. that's a not really a majority, but it's a LOT more then "a few people".
Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:34
So it's the victim's fault for making themselves too attractive? I have another example for you then, going by this rationale if a girl makes herself look pretty and then goes out partying, it's fair game to assault her, because she shouldn't have made herself such an attractive target?
There has already been a post removed from this topic by someone comparing pvp to rape. I'll say the same thing now that I did before. As a rape survivor, I find it horrific and disgusting that anyone would have the audacity to compare such a brutal and horrible real life act to anything done in a game. This is a game. Not real life, no harm is done to anyone personally. It is just a game. Big difference. And something alot of you would benefit from realizing.
I'm a pvp player. I don't usually hit for gold. But I darn sure hit to defend my friends, my guild, and whatever reason fits the situation at the time. In real life, I'm a nurse. I take care of sick and dying people and give my all to giving back to the community. So because I hit in a game, I'm a bully, a thug, a jerk, and whatever else name calling you people feel fits? Step back for a minute and really think about the things you are saying. Seriously.You were aware of PvP when you signed up. Any complaints about not wanting to be forced into are moot. End of story.
And I had an idea. How about instead of completely catering to levelers you give some time for a real compromise. How about make the Smasher medal only count on 100 stams on players online? Then the excuses about not being able to defend are gone. May have been suggested before, I really don't want to read through 16 pages.
And please stop with the comments on PvP being amoral and selfish. My god get over yourselves, its a game. :roll:
I've spent the past hour reading every single page of this. This is ridiculous. Seriously guys..
One: Labeling people as PvPers, levelers, etc is stupid. No one is strictly anything. We all play every aspect of the game, even if you don't realize it.
I've dabbled in everything & I mean, EVERYTHING.
I got my butt kicked by BaiLong in Titan Hunting. (I miss him.)
I learned how to do the Arena from Command14 & Ukyo.
I learned how to SE hunt from my dear friends at The Retreat.
I learned how to Chest Hunt from Shardoom's Guide.. (One more till the medal!)
I tried the 100-149 PvP Ladder in October for a full month. Along, with bounty boards. (74% to Silver!)
I'll even add some PvP was taught to me by some members of ODP. They took five from me, but were respectful enough to give me advice on gear and buffs.
I've leveled from 67 to 401 since July of last year, but you know what annoys me the most?
Two days ago, I strayed from the norm. I had full stamina, saw the new medal.. Wanted to have some fun.. So, I PvPed. I was the 8th person to get the medal that night.
You know what happened?
I got bountied, I got 5 taken from me, but you know what I did? I respected the true PvPers for being passionate about defending their allies.
You know what I got in return?
RESPECT.
They all respected me, because I didn't complain.. I didn't whine. Ohmygod, this is a game for christ's sake! Sit back and enjoy it. You lose some XP, you know what happens? You get higher goals, you want to do more. You bring life to the boards, you make allies, you have your friends defend you.
I'm sick of hearing people say "Oh, I can't afford PvP Protection or XP Locks, UNFAIR, they gang up on us and make us lose five!" You know what? Fight back. Fight for your honor, your glory and everything this game stands for. This game has personas that are complexly derived by your actions.. I mean, if you rob someone in a game.. Are you not a rogue? If you kill monsters in a game, are you not a champion? It's all part of the game. It's what makes it fun! If we all just did one thing on this game.. It might as well be called Point & Click, not Fallensword.
So, suck it up.. Live with it. It'll happen & will happen again. This is the past knocking, get a reality check.
/End Rant.
Also, Rebtex's idea is amazing & Calista's post made me cry a little. She's right, you shouldn't judge people.
Thank you.
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