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#161 Pardoux

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 23:37

If it becomes an issue, there could be a restriction on how many tokens, if any, could be awarded based on your wins/medal ranking (ie, a silver medal player could only win 5 tokens for losing in final, gold only 2, and crystal medal and up 0....this is just an example)...or you could simply make it to where after 1 player wins the 10 tokens for losing in final round, they have a 'cooldown' period of say 5-10 tourneys before they are eligible to win the tokens as final round loser again (similar to the titan cooldown period after a guild has won the epic outright).   This would prevent token abuse from the 'arena masters' and yet still allow the arena 'noobs' and 'learners' to still get their tokens.

 

So let me ask, if a cooldown period for high-ranking arena players (ie, silver medal and up) were applied to tokens, would this be acceptable?

 

A cool-down would never fly - all it would accomplish is that they'd stop playing until their cool down had expired again. Hang on a moment - yes, that COULD work :) - would they agree to it tho ? - never in a month of sundays LOL.

 

As for your gladiator example and 'real pvp', it's a joke....real gladiators only lost once...ever :P

 

Not actually true ;) - if there was a very good gladiatorial bout and one person was disabled, the victor would ask the emporer for a thumbs up / thumbs down. If he was impressed by the way the losing gladiator fought, he could give the thumbs up and grant mercy :P


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#162 paingwin

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:29

Ok, so how about this for an idea? Since we can not make any headway with either camp, (those for the tokens + rewards, and those against the token idea) I would be behind the token idea IF it worked this way. 

 

First, all arena award items such as gear, resources, and potions are taken out of the arena as rewards for winning. There would be 3 types of arenas.....

 

1.) Those arenas which the prize is gold, no tokens would be won during these arenas.

 

2.) Those arenas which the prize is an arena move, no tokens would be won in these arenas.

 

3.) Token arenas which the prize would be tokens. The tokens gained could be broken down something like this.

         

          a.) 4 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the 2 players that win their first round

                                            2 tokens awarded to the loser of the final, and 4 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 5 tokens total, runner up would get 3, and so on.

 

          b.) 8 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the four players that win their first round

                                           2 tokens awarded to the 2 players that win their second round

                                           2 tokens to the loser in the final, and 7 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 10 tokens total, runner up would get 5 tokens total, and so on.

 

          c.) 16 man tourneys - 1 token to the first 8

                                              2 tokens to the second 4

                                              3 tokens to the final 2

                                              4 to runner up, 9 to winner

winner would gain 15 tokens through the arena, runner up would get 10, and so on.

 

*these numbers are just an example and are free to be tweaked as needed*

 

This would be a compromise on the token system that I could agree to. As I want to see the arena grow in activity since I am hard at work in it currently lol. SEEEEEEE I can be reasonable..........

 

Of course, you would then put all those things like crystal gear, potions, and resources into an "Arena Shop" and they could then in turn be bought with tokens. (still unbound as they are now of course)



#163 gomezkilla

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:16

Ok, so how about this for an idea? Since we can not make any headway with either camp, (those for the tokens + rewards, and those against the token idea) I would be behind the token idea IF it worked this way. 

 

First, all arena award items such as gear, resources, and potions are taken out of the arena as rewards for winning. There would be 3 types of arenas.....

 

1.) Those arenas which the prize is gold, no tokens would be won during these arenas.

 

2.) Those arenas which the prize is an arena move, no tokens would be won in these arenas.

 

3.) Token arenas which the prize would be tokens. The tokens gained could be broken down something like this.

         

          a.) 4 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the 2 players that win their first round

                                            2 tokens awarded to the loser of the final, and 4 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 5 tokens total, runner up would get 3, and so on.

 

          b.) 8 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the four players that win their first round

                                           2 tokens awarded to the 2 players that win their second round

                                           2 tokens to the loser in the final, and 7 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 10 tokens total, runner up would get 5 tokens total, and so on.

 

          c.) 16 man tourneys - 1 token to the first 8

                                              2 tokens to the second 4

                                              3 tokens to the final 2

                                              4 to runner up, 9 to winner

winner would gain 15 tokens through the arena, runner up would get 10, and so on.

 

*these numbers are just an example and are free to be tweaked as needed*

 

This would be a compromise on the token system that I could agree to. As I want to see the arena grow in activity since I am hard at work in it currently lol. SEEEEEEE I can be reasonable..........

 

Of course, you would then put all those things like crystal gear, potions, and resources into an "Arena Shop" and they could then in turn be bought with tokens. (still unbound as they are now of course)

I'd go with that system. Still not sure if passing the first round should be awarded a token though..



#164 shindrak

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:31

Ok, so how about this for an idea? Since we can not make any headway with either camp, (those for the tokens + rewards, and those against the token idea) I would be behind the token idea IF it worked this way. 

 

First, all arena award items such as gear, resources, and potions are taken out of the arena as rewards for winning. There would be 3 types of arenas.....

 

1.) Those arenas which the prize is gold, no tokens would be won during these arenas.

 

2.) Those arenas which the prize is an arena move, no tokens would be won in these arenas.

 

3.) Token arenas which the prize would be tokens. The tokens gained could be broken down something like this.

         

          a.) 4 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the 2 players that win their first round

                                            2 tokens awarded to the loser of the final, and 4 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 5 tokens total, runner up would get 3, and so on.

 

          b.) 8 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the four players that win their first round

                                           2 tokens awarded to the 2 players that win their second round

                                           2 tokens to the loser in the final, and 7 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 10 tokens total, runner up would get 5 tokens total, and so on.

 

          c.) 16 man tourneys - 1 token to the first 8

                                              2 tokens to the second 4

                                              3 tokens to the final 2

                                              4 to runner up, 9 to winner

winner would gain 15 tokens through the arena, runner up would get 10, and so on.

 

*these numbers are just an example and are free to be tweaked as needed*

 

This would be a compromise on the token system that I could agree to. As I want to see the arena grow in activity since I am hard at work in it currently lol. SEEEEEEE I can be reasonable..........

 

Of course, you would then put all those things like crystal gear, potions, and resources into an "Arena Shop" and they could then in turn be bought with tokens. (still unbound as they are now of course)

Now  i can agree with you :) "splitting arena into tiers idea"I'm so against it! noobs will never get better without fighting the champs ;)

also i like that there's no more need to rotate arena items..etc its all will be available in arena token's shop with variety cost from 5 and up, quest items and resources cost must be dependent on how many recipe requires the "Quest Items and "Resources Extracts"

 

Potions cost depends on skill level like 10 tokens for every 100 level

ie BM pot  lvl 300 it will cost 30 token..

 

...After all lets hope HC's do the rest of job.



#165 raist007

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:24

Pardoux you obviously missed what I was saying about a cooldown period....I meant that if you won 10 tokens as final round loser, then you would have to enter  5-10 tourneys being non-eligible to win tokens (NOT based on a period of time).  Once those next 5-10 tourneys have completed, only THEN would players be eligible to win the final round tokens again. 

 

That being said, I believe Paingwin has found a very good compromise for the suggestions out there for improving the arena.  I would love to see this implemented.  The only other possible tweak I would recommend would be to make a flat entry fee for the token arena tourneys.  Since arena tokens would essentially become the new 'currency' for buying prizes, it would only make sense that the potential price for obtaining tokens become standardized.  Perhaps a flat fee for the tourneys with no decay - something like 10k for 16-man tourneys, 20k for 8-man tourneys, and 40k for 4-man tourneys.  Just a thought =)



#166 paingwin

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 18:02

Pardoux you obviously missed what I was saying about a cooldown period....I meant that if you won 10 tokens as final round loser, then you would have to enter  5-10 tourneys being non-eligible to win tokens (NOT based on a period of time).  Once those next 5-10 tourneys have completed, only THEN would players be eligible to win the final round tokens again. 

 

That being said, I believe Paingwin has found a very good compromise for the suggestions out there for improving the arena.  I would love to see this implemented.  The only other possible tweak I would recommend would be to make a flat entry fee for the token arena tourneys.  Since arena tokens would essentially become the new 'currency' for buying prizes, it would only make sense that the potential price for obtaining tokens become standardized.  Perhaps a flat fee for the tourneys with no decay - something like 10k for 16-man tourneys, 20k for 8-man tourneys, and 40k for 4-man tourneys.  Just a thought =)

i would flip your idea, 16 man tourneys should be more expensive lol



#167 raist007

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 18:19

Yeah, I kinda did have the numbers switched up in my head :P  So make the cost of the tourney based on the number of tokens that will be distributed out.  SO, if in your example a 16-man tourney would pay out a total of 41 tokens, 8-man tourney would pay 21 tokens, and 4-man tourney would pay out 10 tokens.  If 1 token = 20k gold, then the following would apply:

 

4-man tourney:  50k entry fee

8-man tourney: ~52.5k entry fee

16-man toruney: ~51.5k entry fee

 

Hmmmm, ok, so doing the math this way basically ALL token arenas would cost ~50k to join.  Guess it's a matter of do you want a potential easier win to get closer to next medal and snag some tokens along the way, or spend the same money and maybe not get the win, but still get 2-3 times the number of tokens you would have by spending same amount on 4-man tourney.   I just know if something doesn't happen with the entry fees BEFORE tokens get implemented (OR the fees are standardized ALONG with the implementation of token tourneys), then the system will become VERY abused from the decay that's in place on entry fees.  If the rewards are getting standardized to a token value, then so should the entry fees.



#168 jdlaw

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 18:40

I like This idea But i would like to add one thing you could buy stamina for your upgrades for example 20 tokens for 50 stam



#169 paingwin

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:56

I like This idea But i would like to add one thing you could buy stamina for your upgrades for example 20 tokens for 50 stam

absolutely not, as there is no stamina needed to play in the arena. Being able to buy stamina should be left completely and solely as a FSP/gold upgrade option.



#170 paingwin

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:02

Yeah, I kinda did have the numbers switched up in my head :P  So make the cost of the tourney based on the number of tokens that will be distributed out.  SO, if in your example a 16-man tourney would pay out a total of 41 tokens, 8-man tourney would pay 21 tokens, and 4-man tourney would pay out 10 tokens.  If 1 token = 20k gold, then the following would apply:

 

4-man tourney:  50k entry fee

8-man tourney: ~52.5k entry fee

16-man toruney: ~51.5k entry fee

 

Hmmmm, ok, so doing the math this way basically ALL token arenas would cost ~50k to join.  Guess it's a matter of do you want a potential easier win to get closer to next medal and snag some tokens along the way, or spend the same money and maybe not get the win, but still get 2-3 times the number of tokens you would have by spending same amount on 4-man tourney.   I just know if something doesn't happen with the entry fees BEFORE tokens get implemented (OR the fees are standardized ALONG with the implementation of token tourneys), then the system will become VERY abused from the decay that's in place on entry fees.  If the rewards are getting standardized to a token value, then so should the entry fees.

or, you could just make it even simpler and say........

 

4 man tourneys - 25000 entry

8 man tourneys - 50000 entry

16 man tourneys - 75000 entry

 

you dont have to affix a standard cost per token in gold. The players themselves will do that pretty much the same way as FSP in the marketplace. These arenas would be the same as gold arenas where there is NO, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, decay in entry fees. at least that is my opinion on the whole thing.



#171 paingwin

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:17

Ok, so how about this for an idea? Since we can not make any headway with either camp, (those for the tokens + rewards, and those against the token idea) I would be behind the token idea IF it worked this way. 

 

First, all arena award items such as gear, resources, and potions are taken out of the arena as rewards for winning. There would be 3 types of arenas.....

 

1.) Those arenas which the prize is gold, no tokens would be won during these arenas.

 

2.) Those arenas which the prize is an arena move, no tokens would be won in these arenas.

 

3.) Token arenas which the prize would be tokens. The tokens gained could be broken down something like this.

         

          a.) 4 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the 2 players that win their first round

                                            2 tokens awarded to the loser of the final, and 4 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 5 tokens total, runner up would get 3, and so on.

 

          b.) 8 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the four players that win their first round

                                           2 tokens awarded to the 2 players that win their second round

                                           2 tokens to the loser in the final, and 7 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 10 tokens total, runner up would get 5 tokens total, and so on.

 

          c.) 16 man tourneys - 1 token to the first 8

                                              2 tokens to the second 4

                                              3 tokens to the final 2

                                              4 to runner up, 9 to winner

winner would gain 15 tokens through the arena, runner up would get 10, and so on.

 

*these numbers are just an example and are free to be tweaked as needed*

 

This would be a compromise on the token system that I could agree to. As I want to see the arena grow in activity since I am hard at work in it currently lol. SEEEEEEE I can be reasonable..........

 

Of course, you would then put all those things like crystal gear, potions, and resources into an "Arena Shop" and they could then in turn be bought with tokens. (still unbound as they are now of course)

 

 

Now  i can agree with you :) "splitting arena into tiers idea"I'm so against it! noobs will never get better without fighting the champs ;)

also i like that there's no more need to rotate arena items..etc its all will be available in arena token's shop with variety cost from 5 and up, quest items and resources cost must be dependent on how many recipe requires the "Quest Items and "Resources Extracts"

 

Potions cost depends on skill level like 10 tokens for every 100 level

ie BM pot  lvl 300 it will cost 30 token..

 

...After all lets hope HC's do the rest of job.

This is just my compromise idea on the tokens part. I do however like the idea of a "no fee, no rewards, no medal ticks" area in the arena so ALL players can test out gear and set ups against people. It would allow those players out there that don't have riches and wealth to test gear set ups against others to see if they can make adjustments and such to maybe get a few wins in.

 

If the "no fee" arena area isn't acceptable, I had this idea while at work today.....

 

Special section (Auction house) potions, an arena section that ALL those potions are the reward. Entry fee for each arena would be the "average" base price of those potions in the AH. This area would be for people that DO NOT have a bronze medal, and wins in this area would not count towards the medal. Just a place for noobs without a lot of resources to test their setups out for minimal entry fee and a small reward...........

 

As for the "Arena Shop", I would still say rotate the prizes in the shop. 4 sets of items, set to be rotated every 2 months. This would keep some of those items from plummeting in value. One of the most valuable arena items right now that i know of is the Fire Stone of Bothild, if everyone starts buying them to sell just because they can that item is going to drop in value. rotate them out that way items retain some kind of value. The whole idea of potions costing 10 tokens per level is fine, as long as the AH potions are taken out and put into the new area i talked about. If not then the FI1k pots would cost like 100 tokens and would be completely pointless to put in the "Arena Store" LMAO.



#172 Pardoux

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:18

absolutely not, as there is no stamina needed to play in the arena. Being able to buy stamina should be left completely and solely as a FSP/gold upgrade option.

 

+1


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#173 tuvok77

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 13:06

i like this idea.. would opt in more often then



#174 paingwin

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 17:54

i like this idea.. would opt in more often then

this is for the arena not the ladder.......



#175 gomezkilla

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 00:33

i like this idea.. would opt in more often then

 

this is for the arena not the ladder.......

Opt in. Join. I've heard it both ways.



#176 Pardoux

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:40

 

3.) Token arenas which the prize would be tokens. The tokens gained could be broken down something like this.

         

          a.) 4 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the 2 players that win their first round

                                            2 tokens awarded to the loser of the final, and 4 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 5 tokens total, runner up would get 3, and so on.

 

          b.) 8 man tourneys - 1 token awarded to the four players that win their first round

                                           2 tokens awarded to the 2 players that win their second round

                                           2 tokens to the loser in the final, and 7 awarded to the winner.

winner would accumulate 10 tokens total, runner up would get 5 tokens total, and so on.

 

          c.) 16 man tourneys - 1 token to the first 8

                                              2 tokens to the second 4

                                              3 tokens to the final 2

                                              4 to runner up, 9 to winner

winner would gain 15 tokens through the arena, runner up would get 10, and so on.

 

*these numbers are just an example and are free to be tweaked as needed*

 

Hang on a minute here ...

 

In your 16 man tournament example, passing the first round gets 1 token, passing the 2nd round gets 2, getting to the final gets 3, losing finalist gets 4 and winner gets 9??

 

AM I THE ONLY ONE seeing something wrong here ? :)

 

1. Getting to the final gets 3 tokens IN ADDITION to winning/losing final which gets another 9 / 4 tokens ? - If they're in the final, they should JUST get the 4 or 9 ...

 

2. The tokens for tournament progression SHOULD NOT be cumulative ? 

 

If you win the tournament, you get 9 in total

If you lose the tournament, you get 4 in total

If you get to the semi final and lose, you get 2 in total

If you get to 2nd round and then lose, you get 1 in total.

 

(This is not me endorsing tokens, btw, just pointing out a flaw ... )


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#177 paingwin

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:15

Hang on a minute here ...
 
In your 16 man tournament example, passing the first round gets 1 token, passing the 2nd round gets 2, getting to the final gets 3, losing finalist gets 4 and winner gets 9??
 
AM I THE ONLY ONE seeing something wrong here ? :)
 
1. Getting to the final gets 3 tokens IN ADDITION to winning/losing final which gets another 9 / 4 tokens ? - If they're in the final, they should JUST get the 4 or 9 ...
 
2. The tokens for tournament progression SHOULD NOT be cumulative ? 
 
If you win the tournament, you get 9 in total
If you lose the tournament, you get 4 in total
If you get to the semi final and lose, you get 2 in total
If you get to 2nd round and then lose, you get 1 in total.
 
(This is not me endorsing tokens, btw, just pointing out a flaw ... )


And as i said my good sir, those numbers were just there as an example and could be tweaked and changed as needed or necessary. Just used them so i could get my idea out there.

#178 paingwin

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:46

bump COWS. 



#179 Dulcharn

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:05

It's a bad idea to be awarded tokens for passing first round.

It's in the finals where the awards should go to.

I could agree to the idea of only receiving tokens as the tournament reward, with which you buy the prizes.

 

Logic follows:

It's harder to get through 3 rounds than it is to get through 2 rounds.

 

4-man tourney: 1 token for the winner, 0 for the runner up

8-man tourney: 2 tokens for the winner, 1 for the runner up

16-man tourney: 4 tokens for the winner, 2 for the runner up

 

The entry fee of the tourneys could be 25,000 gold, flat rate.

The gold tourneys would stay as they are, except, as requested in other threads, have the 1M reward tourneys return to the arena.



#180 paingwin

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:22

It's a bad idea to be awarded tokens for passing first round.

It's in the finals where the awards should go to.

I could agree to the idea of only receiving tokens as the tournament reward, with which you buy the prizes.

 

Logic follows:

It's harder to get through 3 rounds than it is to get through 2 rounds.

 

4-man tourney: 1 token for the winner, 0 for the runner up

8-man tourney: 2 tokens for the winner, 1 for the runner up

16-man tourney: 4 tokens for the winner, 2 for the runner up

 

The entry fee of the tourneys could be 25,000 gold, flat rate.

The gold tourneys would stay as they are, except, as requested in other threads, have the 1M reward tourneys return to the arena.

but the idea of the tokens is to INCREASE arena participation is it not? If that is the idea of the tokens, then awarding the same people with tokens that are winning in the arena now would be counter productive if you ask me. If the winner and runner up are the only ones to win tokens then you might as well keep the arena as it is now. Adding token awards for each round would increase the number of people trying to get them. Which i am sure was the original purpose for the idea of the tokens in the first place.




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