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Wisdom -> Damage, with skill bonuses?


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#1 gothador_damolas

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 14:15

Assuming I only cast on a 50% cast-chance, what formula can I use to determine how much damage I will do with any given Wisdom-level?
Also, where and how will Worldly, Worldly+, Worldly++, Mana Surge, Mana Surge+, Overcharge, etc, affect the end damage? Additionally, where and how will a Vial-bonus affect the end damage, i.e. the bonus from a MMB or a VBD, and what about the ‘Turn Undead’ skill?

So does anyone know a formula for all that?

Basically, I’m looking for a formula where my ‘Wisdom’ is the changeable input-value, and where the ‘End Damage’ is the output-value.

Something like … “((((Wisdom * z) * Worldly++) + ((Wisdom * z) * Mana Surge * y)) * Vial Bonus) = End Damage” … (obviously this is just a random pile of words and symbols jumbled together for the purposes of the example! :P)


I figure it's about time I find out... :)

#2 gothador_ackptuoi

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 09:19

The gothador tracker does damage calcs well enough.


But then apply the 50% cast rate :)



And then take into account mana surge... and resistances.


*sigh* I just say that mana surge+ drops the res by half if not enchanted armour, and the cast% as any % should work.

#3 lasciel

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 09:25

*sigh* I just say that mana surge+ drops the res by half if not enchanted armour, and the cast% as any % should work.


wth? no it doesn't. mana surge / mana surge+ = mage equivalent of lucky strike...ergo resistances are negated completely on a mana surge. mana surge+ just increases the chances of doing it.

#4 Skallagrime

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 14:56

i think ack means that since mana surge is not a 100 % chance he's figuring it for 50 %, ie half the time = full dmg, half not then add the 2 and divide by 2

but to answer the question

MP useable = MP
Mage = Wisdom + 8 =MP
Unsub/miner=.75*Wisdom =MP
Warrior= .5*wisdom =MP

Worldly/+/++ = WR = (1.06/1.2/1.46)
Vial Modifier = (% /100)+1 = V
Turn = 1.1+ (.05/.1/.15/.2/.25), if no turn skill, leave out or multiply by 1 for placeholder
*see overcharge discussion below
Creature Resistance = %/100 = CR


DMG per ap (divided by 2 references the fact that its 50% casting, you will do double the dmg per "real" cast but this shows true dpap)

No mana surge
((((MP*7.5*WR*V*Turn)/2)*29)/20)*CR

Mana surge (assumptive of 25 % instance rate
(((((MP*7.5*WR*V*Turn)/2)*29)/20)*CR*3+((((MP*7.5*WR*V*Turn)/2)*29)/20))/4

Mana surge + (assumptive of a 50 % instance rate)
(((((MP*7.5*WR*V*Turn)/2)*29)/20)*CR+((((MP*7.5*WR*V*Turn)/2)*29)/20))/2




that help?

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#5 gothador_damolas

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 12:59

Thanks Skallagrim. I figured you might know an answer! :P :D

#6 gothador_ackptuoi

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 13:54

*sigh* I just say that mana surge+ drops the res by half if not enchanted armour, and the cast% as any % should work.


wth? no it doesn't. mana surge / mana surge+ = mage equivalent of lucky strike...ergo resistances are negated completely on a mana surge. mana surge+ just increases the chances of doing it.


(Like Skallagrim said)...

I come at the calculations from a statistics/probability point of view (long run averages ie n=>infinity sort of thing) rather than algebra... mana surge+ means 50% of your attacks do full damage and the other 50% are reduced by the res. Average that out to 100% of attacks reduced by half the res to get a long run average damage per successful attack.

#7 gothador_ackptuoi

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 14:00

Overcharge is the multiply times 19, divide by 10 and assumes maxed overcharge skill


Let me see... Megacharge maxed gives 6% chance of Overcharge... (55 * .1 + .5 for Overcharge rune)

That would be (94*1+6*10)/100 = 154/100 = 1.54?? not 19/10?

Is there something I have missed?

[I ain't before tried figuring overcharge/deathblow into things... left it as bonus to make kills easier]

#8 Skallagrime

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 14:19

yeah i should correct that one was off an old calc (minghta been for my greenies, i really dont remember, it just stuck in my memory) and i was freehanding it

assuming no skillful its closer to 5 % (besides i like lowballing numbers cause i'm pessimistic about the rng)


1instance per 20 casts successful, what the rough calc is assuming then chopping in half to get truer dpap so should be 29/20

essentially find out the instance rate (I) then add 9(O) and thats what you multiply by to find out what your average dmg increase from overcharge would be

O/I= N

yes you're right but the way you're going about it is more complicated than it needs to be

for 6 % instance think this way

100/6 = 16.666

so
16.66+9 = 25.66

so 25.66/16.66 = 1.54

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#9 gothador_ackptuoi

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 14:52

My way ain't so complicated... it's what you used for Mana surge effect :)

will try and rewrite it...

(Assuming event a and not event a work out as numeric values)

n% of event a and (100-n)% chance of not a

n / 100 * a + (100-n)/100 * !a = Average

This case a is overcharge giving 10 * x damage
Not a is normal attack giving 1 * x damage

6/100 * 10 x + 94/100 * 1 x = 0.6 x + 0.94 x = 1.54 x

Just realised that means Maxed Mega-Overcharge works out as *roughly* a 54% damage increase...

#10 gothador_ackptuoi

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 14:57

Oh and don't be pessimistic about the RNG... it is perfectly** random.







**provided you live forever.





:mrgreen:

#11 Skallagrime

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 07:34

My way ain't so complicated... it's what you used for Mana surge effect :)

will try and rewrite it...

(Assuming event a and not event a work out as numeric values)

n% of event a and (100-n)% chance of not a

n / 100 * a + (100-n)/100 * !a = Average

This case a is overcharge giving 10 * x damage
Not a is normal attack giving 1 * x damage

6/100 * 10 x + 94/100 * 1 x = 0.6 x + 0.94 x = 1.54 x

Just realised that means Maxed Mega-Overcharge works out as *roughly* a 54% damage increase...


yes I personaly understand what you're doing, but to the average person

you've got 2 choices, an overcharge or not an overcharge why not just work out what the lesser rate is as opposed to adding in the inverse which is "normal"?

essentially i'm basing it off of how "easy" it would be to see and interpret it in a spreadsheet format whereas you're adding an extra cell or 5, i had to use that format for mana surge because resistance changes per the creature, whereas well, MOST people dont change their overcharge %age between kills :-P

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#12 Khara

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 18:00

What you actually also need to take into account is that an overcharge has a lot more effect for High-HP critters. An Overcharge on the last hit of a multi-cast won't do any good whatsoever...

#13 gothador_ackptuoi

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 22:40

What you actually also need to take into account is that an overcharge has a lot more effect for High-HP critters. An Overcharge on the last hit of a multi-cast won't do any good whatsoever...


Agreed that an overcharge on the last cast does little for killing the creature.
However it does affect the average damage calculated for the cast spell.

I come at the calculations from a statistics/probability point of view (long run averages ie n=>infinity sort of thing) rather than algebra...


In full detail, for this case, the n approaches infinity type thing means casting an infinite number of spells at a creature with an infinite number of hp and determining the average. Same as treating each cast as an independent event.


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