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Composing - In Detail (Revision 1.2)


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Poll: Composing Poll (458 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think we should go ahead and add revision 1.2 of Composing should be added to the game?

  1. Yes (392 votes [85.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 85.59%

  2. No (66 votes [14.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.41%

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#241 paingwin

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:13

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HEY NOW!!! Don't be dissin the DeVito!!!!!!



#242 Savanc

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:35

For what it is worth.

 

I have been buying a "few" items (not that my backpack is large; they are mostly in my mailbox and AH).

I bought these items and not others because they give the most fragments per FSP. These items are mostly Legendary, but there are also Crystalline, SE and Unique items among them.

 

The number of items are:

  • Level 1-99: 75
  • Level 100-399: 108
  • Level 400-899: 41
  • Level 900-1599: 0
  • Level 1600+: 0

 

Level 1600+ items were always too expensive to buy compared to how many fragments they give. They apparently have a greater value on the AH than what I am willing to pay per fragment.

 

I did pick up 5 level 900-1599 items, and they are 3 solar items and 2 celestial items which I luckily got on the AH. They have more value than what I would normally pay for the fragments, so I will be better off selling them. Then I can use the FSP from them to buy level 1-899 items to turn into fragments. So I listed them as 0 level 900-1599 because I won't turn the level 900-1599 items into fragments.

 

The level 400-899 items are mostly unforged items, or in the case of unique items they are mostly forged. The unforged items give 3 fragments so I bought them for low FSP prices or gold. They do not have the best ratio of fragments per FSP but they are somewhat ok.

 

The level 100-399 items are most plentiful. A lot of players were selling them as junk; even forged items. The most fragments per FSP is to be gained here as well as in the level 1-99 range. There are also a lot of unforged items in this range that give 2 fragments and are being sold for gold so these are a good option too.

 

The level 1-99 items are being sold a lot as well. You can pick up quite a few forged items for a really low price. Unforged items seem to be less interesting because they give 1 fragment, but on the other hand they are really cheap so they still have a very good fragments per gold ratio.


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#243 watagashi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:46

I really should add that I have talked with many people about this and many who dont go on forum. There is a big issue with gear, the amount available and drop rates or more to the point how many common rare etc there are at different level areas. I feel this also needs a look at as well as other parts of the idea I just dont feel are ready for game. Many agree with me it doesnt seem like a needed thing to add more for levels but that is only a small part of it. Other things such as problems some have that they earned a buff with levels but others can create it this way are another part. There are a few things that really should be honed more before a release. I really hope instead of a update today we can involve everyone (cuz like it or not many players just dont do forums but are still players with a legit opinion) and maybe take it to the game with in game polls, another revision and perhaps a few tweaks.

This idea is worth saving, its a great addition the game needed but I just dont think its ready now as it is. 

 

One last thing and maybe I missed it which would be a real big deal too,,,, many people think you cant fragment a piece of gear YOU CANT EQUIP

not meaning potions quest items or stuff you cannot use as equipment but that if you are a 999 you cant fragment 1k gear! If this is so its really broken the unfair extra thing but if not clearly most of the game has no idea whats comming out here.



#244 BigGrim

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:06

I really should add that I have talked with many people about this and many who dont go on forum.

 

Many agree with me it doesn't seem like a needed thing to add more for levels but that is only a small part of it.

 

Then tell them to get on the forum! It's here for them to give feedback and if they don't use it then how the devil do they expect things to go how they wish?

 

We cannot simply take your word for it that many players don't like it, nor are we telepathic, able to simply pluck their objection to the idea from their minds.

 

The forum is here for constructive feedback. Use it!



#245 watagashi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:08

I am encouraging it but many just dont do forum and many think it will go to in game poll first too (no explination how they will know what to vote on but still) yea I wish more would come out on this here.

 

Also I think you floor a lot of people asking for our feedback,, we are used to admin (in other places) just putting things out there then fixing the mistakes! I think a lot of people dont understand that you do read these posts and suggestions on stuff.

 

EDIT,, man if you could be a fly on the wall for guild chat all night! Seems like this

 

nearly 100% for the idea after a few things are fixed

about 50-50 for the extra frags, oddly enough its also split by level that way the high levs give a great argument that they dont have as many drops, as many common rare etc in all areas and yea they earned levels and things that go with it, the other half are lower ones who dont like the thought of one player getting 5 for a common item while they get 1 (numbers varied so this was written to encompass the whole)

BIG time resistance by people who got that buff level to others under them having it.

And worrys that too many buffs in pots will kill buffing (didnt think of that b4 either)

even a few who think cost isnt enough compared to level and a couple worrys too many buffs included too.

I been telling them all to come here but apparently I got nominated to speak for them :P



#246 BigGrim

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:25

Apparently I got nominated to speak for them :P

 

I'm afraid that does not work Bud. We need them to come speak their piece. Like I said, we cannot just take anyone's word that they speak for the silent multitude.



#247 watagashi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:31

LOL I get nominated for a lot of stuff for some reason, I told everyone I felt it neded work and for everyone who had a issue they didnt like and even those who like it no matter how it works to come here and let you know :)



#248 Thorsark

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:47

Really looking forward to seeing the decomposing implemented as Phase 1. Thank you.



#249 morderme

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:48

My backpack is overflowing too.. lol :)

 

 

 

Seems like June 18th is their goal to get the breaking down part added to the game,

 

 

 

 

though, this is a little more realistic.  :P

Yea to the 18th.  After the XP Event, I have a lot of items from Quests that I am holding onto to use in Composing.  Open the Composing doors and let the composing begin!



#250 Thorsark

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 14:24

Yea to the 18th.  After the XP Event, I have a lot of items from Quests that I am holding onto to use in Composing.  Open the Composing doors and let the composing begin!

I think a lot of us are there, I am just trying to be patient and let the Cows work so that I can start breaking stuff :D



#251 Lumbricus

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 14:47

After I've read some posts I feel the big issue with the "Composing" idea seems to be that some feel that composing might lead to neutralize the "selling buffs" aspect of the game because now low level players get access to high level buffs.

On that issue I want to throw in three things to consider:

1.) Those potions are (guild) bound

2.) Most players oganized in guilds don't really have to buy buffs (even high level buffs) because they get them for free from their fellow (higher level) guild mates

3.) In my opinion the composing is meant to be used to get some value some time of otherwise useless items. I think before you start complaining about that this will ruin the "selling buffs" aspect you should try to answer the question about "How often will I be able to actually compose a decent potion of buffs available for players at 1000+ Levels?".

As an example let's see how many fragments are needed for a potion that gives Lvl175 Smashing Hammer and Lvl 175 Coordinated Attack with a duration of 90 minutes:

If I understand the calculation correct you have

- a total of 350 Lvls =  18 Common Fragments *3 (Duration)= 54 Common Fragments

- 299 lvls above Lvl 50 = 15 Rare Fragments * 3 (Duration)= 45 Rare Fragments

- 224 lvl above Lvl 125 = 11 Unique Fragments * 3 (Duration)= 33 Unique Fragments

- 31500 Gold

 

Again my question: How often do you think a player below lvl 1200 and with stamina in the range of 5K-10K will be able to compose this potion/buffs at the already available lvl 175  if he doesn't use the auction house (and spends FSP/gold to get the Fragments - especially the unique ones) simply by levelling up and decomposing the items he gets while doing so? And then ask yourself how often would he be able to compose that potion at a Lvl >175?

My guess would be quite possibly not every simple hunt - maybe not even every other hunt - at least not at lvl175.

I think it might still be cheaper for a player below Lvl 1200 to actually go and buy those buffs from a player if he really needs it every hunt at lvl 175 and does not have the opppertunity to get it for free from a guild mate.

And if he produces this potion at a lower level or at a shorter duration then the buffs available from a player that sells them becomes - rightfully - better.

 

Another issue that came up was that "High Lvl players get more fragments out of their items"

- Well, as Savanc already posted somewhere above, IF you buy them, the best item/fragment ratio/FSP or gold lies within the lvls1-399 items - so maybe there is even a possibility for lower lvl players to profit by selling the items they get.

- If you also want to get more fragments out of the items you find wouldn't it be a good motivation to lvl up?

 

Well, this is my input on this toppic and I hope that we soon get the opportunity to break down our unused items and once in a while use them fragments for a nice little potion.



#252 evilbry

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 15:45

I been telling them all to come here but apparently I got nominated to speak for them :P

I hope you, and they realise the implications of this.

 

IF the numbers of which you refer to are as high as you indicate, the fact that there is one person speaking on their behalf, has in essence been the deciding factor in this thread gathering the numbers HCS sought for implementation.



#253 raist007

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:28


 

I hope you, and they realise the implications of this.

 

IF the numbers of which you refer to are as high as you indicate, the fact that there is one person speaking on their behalf, has in essence been the deciding factor in this thread gathering the numbers HCS sought for implementation.

 

Riiighhhtttt....and this isn't aimed at you evilbry, but.if you look at how many people (ie, EOC and/or PVP players) stepped up to defend against changing the xp for getting deleveled/releveling on champions, there is NO way people are being too lazy to speak up here about composing.  People will speak for what they believe will affect themselves and those they care about...period.  So all this about one person being the voice for many is pure crap imho.  Just calling it what it is =) 

 

What I would love is for someone to give me a LEGITIMATE reason why composing should NOT be implemented as suggested.  People complain about low level players being able to make pots for buffs they haven't 'earned' by leveling - what?!  Seriously, that's your argument? Then, why not stop all pot making and buff-selling, because the players haven't 'earned' those buff levels either. 

 

Here's a fact: composing is NOT going to be something everyone will be doing everyday for every hunt (or pvp, titan hunt, etc).  Items, Fragments, time, and gold (and other factors) will limit the process.  AND because no one can compose ALL the time, there will still be a need for buying buffs and regular/invented pots....and besides, if you don't like the idea of composing, then DON'T COMPOSE!  Some people don't like PVP or hunting titans....does anyone 'force' them to do it?  Does their lack of participation 'break' the game in any way?  Of course not, although having more people getting involved in more aspects of the game is definitely a good thing =)

 

So far, all the negative responses/comments to composing are mute points and none convincing nor truly valid when looking at the overall game mechanics.  So once more I will sit and await a legitmate reason for why composing should NOT be implemented.......I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a LONG time - lol

 

Raist007

 

 

 

Anyways, I will await



#254 wil72

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 18:07

Riiighhhtttt....and this isn't aimed at you evilbry, but.if you look at how many people (ie, EOC and/or PVP players) stepped up to defend against changing the xp for getting deleveled/releveling on champions, there is NO way people are being too lazy to speak up here about composing.  People will speak for what they believe will affect themselves and those they care about...period.  So all this about one person being the voice for many is pure crap imho.  Just calling it what it is =) 

 

What I would love is for someone to give me a LEGITIMATE reason why composing should NOT be implemented as suggested.  People complain about low level players being able to make pots for buffs they haven't 'earned' by leveling - what?!  Seriously, that's your argument? Then, why not stop all pot making and buff-selling, because the players haven't 'earned' those buff levels either. 

 

Here's a fact: composing is NOT going to be something everyone will be doing everyday for every hunt (or pvp, titan hunt, etc).  Items, Fragments, time, and gold (and other factors) will limit the process.  AND because no one can compose ALL the time, there will still be a need for buying buffs and regular/invented pots....and besides, if you don't like the idea of composing, then DON'T COMPOSE!  Some people don't like PVP or hunting titans....does anyone 'force' them to do it?  Does their lack of participation 'break' the game in any way?  Of course not, although having more people getting involved in more aspects of the game is definitely a good thing =)

 

So far, all the negative responses/comments to composing are mute points and none convincing nor truly valid when looking at the overall game mechanics.  So once more I will sit and await a legitmate reason for why composing should NOT be implemented.......I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a LONG time - lol

 

Raist007

 

 

 

Anyways, I will await

 

Your facts are bogus mate, explain to me, and please make it a legitimate answer, as to why a player can't have a " Composed " pot for every hunt?

 

Smashing Hammer lvl 175, requirements 9 Common frags, 7 Rare frags, 3 Unique Frags and a handful of gold for 30 minutes duration. Easily obtained by ALL those above Level 50. Plus the Composing page can hold as many Fragments from any type of gear that a player wants to. I think it would be odd to actually see someone hunting no matter their level without a Smashing Hammer buff.

 

I've already stated in this thread why I do not believe Composing should be implemented in its current form. Find the post. Whether you regard it as a " legitimate "  reason or not I couldny care less. You mate are not the person I was trying to convince. The cows have that honour.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72



#255 yotwehc

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 18:39

I would suggest the cows start with some harmless pots and see how it goes. Or do a limited time for some of the stronger pots just to get a feel and the wave of complaints to come. But just my opinion.

#256 dowuones

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 19:22

I would suggest the cows start with some harmless pots and see how it goes. Or do a limited time for some of the stronger pots just to get a feel and the wave of complaints to come. But just my opinion.

i really hope so



#257 dragon1234

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 19:53

I hope that HCS realize that the concern about the fact that lower level player can invent higher level buff is valid. Also, there would be no need to even have buffs that you can buff yourself with because the pots would have already taken care of your buffing needs. 

 

One really simple solution would be to implement something like doubler. For every 100(200?) level that a person is below the recommended level of the buff, the number of needed frag would be multiplied by 2x, 3x, 4x etc. This mean that while you can invent any buff, the cost of inventing those buffs that are higher level would be so enormous that you wouldn't want to do it. 

 

So if say a lv 600 want to invent the SH pot from above, they would need 63 common frag, 49 rare frag and 21 unique faq. This would boil down to about 50 or so fights(if you are really lucky) or buying 50 or so items from the market for that one potion. Not to mention that the potion will only last 30 min instead of regular buff lasting 180 min or so. 

 

Or you guys can do it by a tier system that is already in place in the buff tree, for every skill that is in a tier that is above you, multipliers are put into effect. For example, if you are lv 1000 and you want to invent SH, its 2x, but if you want to invent shield wall its 4x. 


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#258 raist007

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 20:08

Your facts are bogus mate, explain to me, and please make it a legitimate answer, as to why a player can't have a " Composed " pot for every hunt?

 

Smashing Hammer lvl 175, requirements 9 Common frags, 7 Rare frags, 3 Unique Frags and a handful of gold for 30 minutes duration. Easily obtained by ALL those above Level 50 in the game. Plus the Composing page can hold as many Fragments from any type of gear that a player wants to. I think it would be odd to actually see someone hunting no matter their level without a Smashing Hammer buff.

 

I've already stated in this thread why I do not believe Composing should be implemented in its current form. Find the post. Whether you regard it as a " legitimate "  reason or not I couldny care less. You mate are not the person I was trying to convince. The cows have that honour.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Please tell me what is 'bogus' about each individual player 'choosing' whether or not to compose?  Sure, every player could conceivably make a composing potion of smashing hammer for every hunt.  First, what's the problem with that; and second,  they still need other buffs to hunt with - my point was that you aren't going to be able to compose every buff you want for every hunt.  So there will still be a marketplace for selling buffs and invented pots.  Plus, you know some people are going to be too lazy or confused or simply not want to compose and will still pay the 1fsp or whatever for the SH buff on occasion.  Point being: this is NOT a game breaker plus it gives players more things to do in the game. 

 

In any case, only the equipment breakdown is being implemented at this time.  The actual buffs that will be available may still be subject to change.  My post wasn't intended to change your mind either, but I was supporting hoof's response to grendeldog in that if there are ALL these players against composing, then why are they not showing up to say no.  Because the EOC peeps sure showed up to gun down the proposal to change the ridiculous xp gain they receive from sitting on maps after they've been deleveled and hitting champions.  I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that poll, only that for the people who cared about it and didn't want their gameplay to be adversely affected, they voted in large numbers and the idea was gunned down.  With composing we have many who DO want it implemented. 

 

I think the cows are doing this right - first allowing the breakdown of items so people can get fragments.  Later, I will trust the cows to do the right thing for actually introducing the pot composing aspect. Lastly, no different than any other aspect of this game (or any other for that matter), there will be tweaks made to composing.  I myself don't necessarily agree with ALL of the proposed composing buffs/levels, BUT that doesn't mean the feature should be completely thrown out or not implemented at all.



#259 Thorsark

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 21:16

I would suggest the cows start with some harmless pots and see how it goes. Or do a limited time for some of the stronger pots just to get a feel and the wave of complaints to come. But just my opinion.

They're starting with pure decomposing/breakdown of items, before they get ANY pots up. Smooth, gradual approach.



#260 Savanc

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 21:56

They're starting with pure decomposing/breakdown of items, before they get ANY pots up. Smooth, gradual approach.

That's right.

With a little luck the ability to break down items will be implemented tomorrow.


Gathering  Crystal Cutting 49 | Farming 49 | Fishing 49 | Foraging 49 | Forestry 49 | Prospecting 49 | Skinning 49
Crafting  Alchemy 49 | Armorsmithing 49 | Cooking 49 | Jewelry 49 | Leatherworking 49 | Tailoring 49 | Weaponsmithing 49
First person to have maxed them cool.png

Characters (all level 49)
Prophet    
Savanc       Savavita              Savavimala               Mage          Savanhildur    Savashengli    Savahathor
Warrior  
Savy           Savanikomachos   Savafionnchadh       Assassin   Savalina         Savajahangir
Ranger      Savakainda  Savatakoda         Savaraxka               Templar   Savastanislav  Savasegolene



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