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Game Update v2.39


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#121 WWWolf

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 19:34

I remember back when few players had Doubler, due to only like the Top 10 players being above level 200. None of the buffs above level 200 existed on the skill tree either.  It wasn't that bad. Seriously.

 

I'm with Belaric. Players should plan ahead, make connections with other players, and learn how to do more things on their own.

 

Players should not be buff vending machines.

 

*grabs Belaric's cane and waves it* Now get off my lawn! :P

Yep, I honestly have to say that EVERY time I was in a situation where I was waiting for buffs, it was my fault for NOT PLANNING AHEAD.  Yes it is frustrating but gets you to form connections with other players (good and bad) and brings a nice aspect of community to the game.



#122 yotwehc

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 19:35

Clever, you used sarcasm, you'll have to teach me one day.

 

Seriously, certain things should be easy, stop being so elitist.  Finding buffs is not fun, it shouldn't be a challenge.

The danger of sarcasm is no one knows when your serious... I have had more then one occasion where people would PM with something like: "Thank you... I think"

Don't do it... don't fall to the dark side...

 

I'm not being elitist... I straddle the fence but in the big picture, my fence is nothing. I have said, I love the low prices and how easy it is to find buffs now. Before this change, it was much harder even WITH FSH to find the buffers but as others have said, we have grown spoiled and i think it's true. Would I genuinely like my sarcastic changes? Heck yeah! Is it good for the game, Heck NO!

 

I will keep playing regardless but making this automated is very detrimental imo. As most on the forums know, I just LOVE pvp (NOT). But I will give them kudos as they are by far the most social in the game. They HAVE to build relationships with buffers as they have to be buffed often. This is one key for levelers to be social and automating is going to hurt a key strength of the game (IMHO)

 

On other MMORPG games, I like to play as a lone wolf... no ties to anyone... just causing trouble... it is near impossible to do that in FS... with automation, it will be easy... don't have to PM anyone anymore. It forced me out of my shell and now look at me... almost as bad as belaric/egami (boom!)



#123 WWWolf

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 19:37

the buff marketplace is a vending machine essentially... :unsure:

Darn thing ate my quarters! Where's my chips?!?

 

But seriously, I have to agree - completely removes almost 100% of the interaction from the Buffing System.



#124 goolsby7

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:05

Let's imagine a situation.

I saw a player I don't like selling buffs/packages for gold.
I use 50FSPs to buy that a LOT of times when the player is offline, he get a LOT of gold on hand, I do a 100 Stamin hit on him and ask for my guildmates do the same, I get my gold back, erase his stamina and still get buffed. All that with the player offline.

The only way to Auto-buff work is if the gold go diretcly to the player bank, and that should not be allowed.

IF the system is kept in place, why not make upgrades that cap out at 25% of buff sale goes to bank. like 5% per upgrade.

 

The future is to have the buffs automaticaly casted. Theres no other way you can talk about a buff market without implementing such thing.

 

The dailly limit is a valid option to limit abuses, altough will also sacrifice players who are really active.

 

Consider making a better search tool for buffs and that will surely benefit online players, who will be able to adjust their offers to the market demand.

the best way to do this in my opinion is more or less like FSH, however, you would have to manually toggle yourself as "actively buffing" to appear online in the search que. have it un-toggle after 5 mins of inactivity?

 

Yep, I honestly have to say that EVERY time I was in a situation where I was waiting for buffs, it was my fault for NOT PLANNING AHEAD.  Yes it is frustrating but gets you to form connections with other players (good and bad) and brings a nice aspect of community to the game.

i agree. i tend to have sudden hunting sprees in the middle of the night for me, which is when a lot of people are off lol. so if i would have to wait and make plans with others for when i would hunt.

"Then, the Friendships were born! using there ultra awesome powers, talking, chating, learning about eachother..."

if anyone catches that kudos XD

 

Darn thing ate my quarters! Where's my chips?!?

 

But seriously, I have to agree - completely removes almost 100% of the interaction from the Buffing System.

aparently you cant quote something quoted XD but i agree with you.


Edited by goolsby7, 16 January 2014 - 20:09.

Gold / Kill peaks at about Level 310 or so - and then drops again twice - once at 1601 (from average 300g / kill with no doubler/mer/th to 250g / kill) and then again at at 1626 (down another 50g / kill to an average of 200g / kill)

 


#125 Jonah Tebaa

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:20

Why not make it a double handshake thing.
Player A asks for package 1 from player B.
Player B accepts to sell player A.
Player A accepts to pay.

Not until player A accepts that he gets buffed and payment is made.

Edited by Jonah Tebaa, 16 January 2014 - 20:20.


#126 cyrus7

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:21

Why not make it a double handshake thing.
Player A asks for package 1 from player B.
Player B accepts to sell player A.
Player A accepts to pay.

Not until player A accepts that he gets buffed and payment is made.

 

Some players would say that's too many steps.  Just like they're already complaining that they have to click Accept to sell.



#127 Jonah Tebaa

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:22

Make expiry 5 minutes too. 10 minutes is too long i think.
Make expiry 5 minutes too. 10 minutes is too long i think.

#128 killafrog

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:38

How would people feel about the buff packages auto buffing if the player has been active in the last ten minutes?

 

I.E. You see the package you want and the buffer has been active in last ten minutes. You hit request and it automatically goes through.

 

To prevent abuse, we can put in a Maximum Stamina Threshold which the buffer can set a limit to before it goes to a simple request again. This would allow them to buff while active without having to allow every request, yet put a maximum amount of Stam used so his/her Stam bank is not completely drained by possible malicious users.

 

I'd say we could possibly put those on auto accept to the top of the list? With it being set to a 10 minute activity level, this stops the function from becoming a purely automated system.

 

Furthermore, we could put a limit on the number of auto sales available per player, per 24 hours. This ought to prevent 'auto-refresh' abuse.

 

Opinions

What about seeing how much stam the buff sellers has left to how much the buff pack cost in stam?


Edited by killafrog, 16 January 2014 - 20:44.


#129 Melissa3

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:39

I love the idea of auto buffing........ from a buyers persepective the buff is applied immediately.  Why do we need to wait for the seller to accept? ....  By placing that package he has given his acceptance already......

 

However what i would like added to the buff marketplace to order buffs I want to know is the buffer full sustain and will the buffs be extended.  We need that information when deciding who to order from.  I think since the buffmarket was introduced some people have been shortcutting us and not bothering with extend.

 

Also if the auto buff feature is not adopted I would like to have access to a list that shows what buffs I have ordered and the time remaining.

 

The way it is currently I have double paid for buffs.



#130 BraveKath

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:39

I have used this system and I did wait 10 minuets     (very long 10 minuets)    I think your suggestions is fair to both side      the seller perhaps  can control   about of stam  and the time  for buffing....   for instant    seller knows he will be afk at a certain time, set the time for buffing to stop when he is afk.    Also  I it would be better to only allow the requester one request at a time.    Request is sent...wait the 3 to 4 minuets....time expired   then system allows for a 2 request.  :)

I get the concern, but there's a flip side.

One problem with this is when you want Buffs A, B & C from Buffer 1 and you want Buffs D, E & F from Buffer 2.

Example Player 1 has Coordinated Attack and SH that you want to buy, but you also want Stalker, TH and Merchant and Player 2 has this, so you may be buying two different buff packages at the same time.  You might also, if the price is right, pay double for some buffs just to be able to get moving and play.
 



#131 yotwehc

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:45

I get the concern, but there's a flip side.

One problem with this is when you want Buffs A, B & C from Buffer 1 and you want Buffs D, E & F from Buffer 2.

Example Player 1 has Coordinated Attack and SH that you want to buy, but you also want Stalker, TH and Merchant and Player 2 has this, so you may be buying two different buff packages at the same time. You might also, if the price is right, pay double for some buffs just to be able to get moving and play.

Yes that is a conundrum. Talking to seller would be an awful 3rd option. Hopefully we don't have to take the desperate measure of communicating. Please make it not so.

#132 BraveKath

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:48

In general I like the new idea ... I have one concern - if a Buffer could have icons for Extend, Sustained & Reinforced by their name.  When I tried to use the Buff Market at first I didn't find one buffer with Extend and Reinforced and I'm not including those who aren't high enough to have the Reinforce buff, and worse still in my mind - several weren't even Sustained.  I've checked again and found more positive results, so that was encouraging.  I warned my guild "buyer beware" with the Buff Market and to ensure they get what they think they're paying for.

In a system where there's the action to "accept", then there's a chance the buffer might switch gear and attain Sustain and extend, and reinforce their buffs, but maybe not.  

Again, I would really like to see if the Buff Market can be programmed to reflect icons by/under the Buffer's name indicating: Sustain, Extend (Level is important for this - in my opinion) and Reinforced.  


Edited by BraveKath, 16 January 2014 - 20:51.


#133 BraveKath

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:32

I will say I'm bummed by the time and energy being put into an aspect of the game that, as far as I was aware, was not broken or in terribly much need of attention. This is being feverishly implemented and upgraded and adjusted day on day. Which means other stuff is being delayed as this system is worked on. A system I don't think we needed.

 

Why not port in the FSH functions and be done? Make it easier to find buffers, and still have people interacting with each other in game.

 

Why make buff selling a semi/automatic function? The solutions do seem to head that way - be it via X amount of stam/day for automatic sales or number of buff sale slots/day a la the marketplace, where you can say "I'm selling SH at 175K" and log out, and when someone wants to buy SH at 175K they click on it and you have the stam deducted. Which is not a bad idea, (and the idea of upgrades to increase 'buff sale slots' may be attractive to HCS) but is very fire and forget, and the seller runs the risk of not getting a buff master bonus, and the buyer no extend or reinforcement. Unless buff selling becomes like composing - you log in every hour and a bit to re-up your BfM, Ex, Rf, buffs, reset your market place offerings, deal with any gold gained and disappear again. Very interactive. And you need to be able to advertise buffs at 175, this 150 and hope fury caster is maxed is just silly. Puts me off using the system from the get go. I want to see what I am buying, not hope I am getting what I want.

 

The current buff packs system is ungainly, though it seems you can make individual buff 'packs' now, thankfully. The hit request and wait 10 minutes is bizarre - why not simply look for buffers the old fashioned way? It will almost certainly be faster, and when you find one online, you'll get a response within 10 minutes, if he or she is there - which if autorefresh were disabled in game, would be pretty obvious. Has all this happened because people were too lazy to find buffers, and wanted the buffs they wanted when they wanted them? Should we have a buff central depot where buffs can be bought from the FS automated wizard's guild and take player interaction out altogether and have buff sales as an HCS gold sink? We can then have a thread arguing over pricing. WTH??? That would make finding buffs easier!

 

(Yes I know it sucks to be in certain time zones. ugh...)

 

 

I do not see much value added to the game by this marketplace as a whole. I do not recall a huge groundswell of opinion that buff sales were problematic and needed fixed. (Did I miss that? Were there threads where people were saying they could NEVER find buffs, or that there were windows in the day that they could never find a buffer due to their timezone? I don't recall seeing it. But maybe I did not pay attention.) I do see it being useful in a game that is less active, where buff sales become harder to find. Sadface. But realisticface also.

 

I liked the idea of doing away with autorefresh, that way benefits old way and new in terms of buff sales.

 

Rant done. All this energy expended over something that was not fundamentally broken is frustrating. Change ladder hits already. Add new levels to the arena. Too late now, but you get my point.

 

I hope we get a workable system at the end of this that is not susceptible to any form of abuse. Once it is installed, I'll probably use it...

 

 

P.S. I have no idea of any unintended bad consequences that would occur as a result of removing autorefresh from the game. I'm sure a few exist.

Belaric, as usual, has made a lot of valid points.

A couple points I want to comment on because on one point I strongly agree and I think for the first time I have a point where I don't agree.

1) "Old-Fashioned" 1:1 communication and buying -- Agree - I think many of us have made many great acquaintances and many friends through the buying and selling of buffs and expanded our familiarity with fellow players.  This game is weird - it is the most social game I know and many of the bonds formed are quite strong and keep many of us coming back and finding ways to keep engaged in the game because of the friends we have here.  When we take away a vehicle for people making connections - especially with new players, then I think we could loose something very important.  So guess I would encourage folks to take an extra step and still say "Thank you" and look for opportunities for dialogue - let's not all become a robot.

2) I have used FSH "Find Buff" a lot but so often just weeding through a list of folks that aren't really online, don't want to use their stam, are willing to sell buffs for a high price and not even reinforce them. A number of evenings I've spent over 45 minutes looking for buffs, and on one particularly dark and dreary night as my potions evaporated it was over an hour and found no one was really online or with stam or desire to buff  for over an hour, so this Buff Market does seem like a blessing to avoid those times. 
 
When you're not a high level player and don't have all the buffs you need to hunt, you are dependent on others and I've met great people looking for and buying buffs, but I've also almost quit the game in frustration on several occasions when I couldn't play because I couldn't find the buffs I needed.  I remember quite a few lost GvG's for this reason and I've learned my lesson - I now don't buff myself and drink my potions before I've secured all the buffs I need from others, as I know it can be a waste of game money to do so.

So while in the end we may not make the interpersonal connections we once did through automation, we will likely keep the frustration level for those lacking all the buffs they may need or want and enable them to play ... speaking as one of those without all the buffs :)

But again, on the whole Belaric, as usual, makes marvelous points and I hope we'll all take them into consideration and make our efforts to not become robots,  step around the automation and make human connections.



#134 Kedyn

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:33

If you complain about sustain, reinforced and extend - just imagine that they only need to buff you with level 150 buffs and not 175. 

 

I haven't been a fan of the way this market was introduced - I feel it was rushed and now, we're trying to fix the system with bandaids. I still say that the automation method of this should be eliminated and people should still have to accept. As for putting the onus on the requesting player, I say that should be nixxed as well. If someone requests 3 buffs, and already had 2 of them on them from another source, then take 1/3 the payment. If, as a seller, you're selling 2 buffs for 1 FSP or 4 buffs for 2 FSP, then receiving a portion of that based on the buffs you gave them would be fine. 

 

Again - I'm a proponent of instant buffs from automation like suggested - it eliminates a great deal of chatting (yes even if it's only please and thank you). I understand that some players are in bad timezones to request buffs, but implement a buff market like the potion bazaar based on the cost of the stamina. Most buff sellers today buff below cost of stamina, so if you put a buff market at cost of stamina, then it's not going to hurt anyone's chances of selling buffs. Also, it would be a great way to sink some more gold in the game. 



#135 Matetuer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:54

I didnt read all the post, but IMO, it should be auto-accepted. Now players sell very cheap buffs package, but never accept the requests, so you wait, wait wait...



#136 cyrus7

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:56

Now players sell very cheap buffs package, but never accept the requests, so you wait, wait wait...

The cheaper they sell, the less incentive they have to sit and wait for requests.

 

cheap or fast: pick one



#137 pedroevan

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:29

IMO the buff package should be sold at the moment the buyer bought it, which means the seller is responsible for the prices and the stamina usage available, I don't see the point of waiting the seller to accept your request, I mean he/she put the buff package in display, make it instant and the seller can even cast buffs offline, again , it's the sellers responsibility, maybe make it instant and add a on/off button the seller can use?


Edited by pedroevan, 16 January 2014 - 22:29.


#138 Belaric

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:51

2) I have used FSH "Find Buff" a lot but so often just weeding through a list of folks that aren't really online, don't want to use their stam, are willing to sell buffs for a high price and not even reinforce them. A number of evenings I've spent over 45 minutes looking for buffs, and on one particularly dark and dreary night as my potions evaporated it was over an hour and found no one was really online or with stam or desire to buff  for over an hour, so this Buff Market does seem like a blessing to avoid those times. 
 
When you're not a high level player and don't have all the buffs you need to hunt, you are dependent on others and I've met great people looking for and buying buffs, but I've also almost quit the game in frustration on several occasions when I couldn't play because I couldn't find the buffs I needed.  I remember quite a few lost GvG's for this reason and I've learned my lesson - I now don't buff myself and drink my potions before I've secured all the buffs I need from others, as I know it can be a waste of game money to do so.

So while in the end we may not make the interpersonal connections we once did through automation, we will likely keep the frustration level for those lacking all the buffs they may need or want and enable them to play ... speaking as one of those without all the buffs :)
 

 

I see your point - waiting an hour as your potions dried up must have been most frustrating. This makes that 10 minute thing seem not so bad! LOL! (That 10 minute wait, if it remains, should be reduced)

 

Is part of you looking for folk again the autorefresh thing/problem where people look online but aren't? Does that need to be looked at? I don't use it, so am utterly unaware of its benefits.

 

I do think 175 buffs , or at least Fury Caster status should be clearly indicated, in addition to Sustain, Extend, Reinforce. Getting a 150 buff when you expect a 175 would not be a stellar experience. Especially if payment is automatically deducted when you receive the buff. Adding indicators for level of Fury Caster and Sustain available to the seller, and icons as suggested for Extend and Reinforce, if active on a seller, would rock.

 

If the system can help players find buffs faster and exchange services quickly, openly and fairly, then cool. It does not seem like we are quite there yet. I fail to understand the need for packs. People have constantly shifting needs, as buffs run out and need to be replaced, if nothing else. The ability to sell buffs individually, or buy them from a sellers list individually, seems the best way to me to go. Commonly requested packs can then be created as discount vehicles. So it would be as now with FSH - click on the ones you want from a sellers list of available buffs, have the price added up for you, or click on a pre created pack and buy it. The pack does not buff on you if you already have any of the included buffs active. You should be capable of managing that much!!

 

The buff marketplace could then simply become a list of players who are online and willing to buff. Click on player name, go to their buff list, choose which ones you want. Click buy - buffs are bought, payment made. IF both players are online and the seller has their sell buffs option checked, this can be automatic with no wait involved This is assuming indicators for FC, Sus, Ex and Rf are available.

 

Or have the search sortable by buff and price - look for AL, see all online sellers ranked in order of price by level of buff, 175 at the top, etc. etc. Like the old Fallen Empire (?? was it theirs?? Sorry if misnamed!) database, but active. Only the sellers who are online will show upon the list. Active database management, baby! It is kind of like that now, but you have to click on the seller to see how recently he/she was on, and what their enhancements are,if they have  the buffs you want active, and then you can't back search to the menu - you get the white screen and hit resend message, or at least I do, and that is a pain. So some streamlining there would be nice.

 

Having it tied to actively online players avoids the problems of gold accumulating to be stolen, or stamina being drained when not desired. However, if there are timezone blackspots - and I'd like data on those please - this system would do nothing for them.

 

From what I have read it did not seem like BG and Hoof really wanted to allow people to sell offline. Depends how far they want to blur that goalpost, if it becomes within X minutes of last activity etc. then the timezone issue would remain.

 

 

THAT is when a feature to allow offline selling could be useful! Imagine it like the FSP marketplace - it could be implemented where buffs can be sold one at a time, stam allowing, on an open marketplace where the seller sets the price and disappears. The number of slots a player could have could be added to the game, say 5 to start, with an upgrade to buy more slots to sell more buffs when offline. A player choosing to sell buffs offline therefore knows how much stam he is going to burn (indeed, cannot post the buffs if he does not have enough stam) and has to accept the risk of having a bunch of buffs sell, and be gold rich and possibly hit when offline, which is true of potion merchants etc. now. I would have a certain number of slots to sell buffs, and would use them in market stacks for each particular buff. So you could go into this market and look at all the AL buffs, or all the SH buffs, and see which one you wanted. They would be displayed like the FSP market - most expensive at the top, with 175 buffs at the top of the listing. If there were none there, then you are SOL, find an active buffer.

 

I know folk have already suggested stuff very similar to this. I heartily apologise for regurgitating your ideas!

 

I give away a buff pack to certain qualifying players. (Under 300, at max stam) Would the new system have a charity corner?? LOL!

 

I said for the longest time I'd avoid this thread until it was done. Failed.


Edited by Belaric, 16 January 2014 - 22:58.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#139 BraveKath

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:21

To those that complain about Auto-Refresh - I strongly disagree and don't want to see auto-refresh denied here.  For me, it would probably be a nail in the coffin of reasons not to play.  Why?

1) Keeping up with my guildmates and their posts.  I can do whatever I'm doing and set auto refresh to check here easily with a glance.

2) For the Ladder and GvG defense being able to set up for self buff when I'm away from the computer really helps and makes playing the ladder more feasible.

3) Why do we have to regulate everything if we don't use it?  This game has marvelous folks, but one problem that seems rampant is that if someone doesn't use a feature then well no one should.  I'm not talking about cheats - titan scripts and stuff of that nature, but just things that really don't hurt anyone - like auto-refresh and just make it easier and nicer for other people, and if you don't use the feature - fine - a little more live and let live would do us all a world of good.

 



#140 RebornJedi

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:24

To those that complain about Auto-Refresh - I strongly disagree and don't want to see auto-refresh denied here.  For me, it would probably be a nail in the coffin of reasons not to play.  Why?

2) For the Ladder and GvG defense being able to set up for self buff when I'm away from the computer really helps and makes playing the ladder more feasible.

 

hmm that sounds a bit like cheating...


Edited by RebornJedi, 16 January 2014 - 23:24.

 



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