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#101 spyders

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:15

I thought about that but some players would have maybe left a guild and wouldn't have gotten the values from before - also some guilds don't have the adviser structure. So I think it's fairer to just let everyone start accumulating the medals from when they are implemented :)

why they left? this is not fair



#102 Dulcharn

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:50

I thought about that but some players would have maybe left a guild and wouldn't have gotten the values from before - also some guilds don't have the adviser structure. So I think it's fairer to just let everyone start accumulating the medals from when they are implemented :)

 

 

Solution: make advisor structure available to all guilds.

 

At the moment we're getting fake relic capture trades between guilds just for the medal. We're all getting buff bombed for no reason. Guilds are wasting stam creating and joining groups for no purpose and then letting the groups expire.

At least with the current advisor statistics, we would be able to have a race for the medals from the bottom up... We would then also be able to honour the time and stamina spent in the real use of the buffs, purposeful group joins and purposeful relic defense, etc.

 

 

 

 


#103 Tastria

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 13:49

The irony of what this particular forum discussion shows, is that there are, apparently, a LOT of less than honorable people and guilds out there. (I was going to add more here, but I think that pretty much says it all.) 



#104 wil72

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 14:06

Solution: make advisor structure available to all guilds.

 

 

Refund? Yes please :P

 

Cheers.

 

wil72



#105 Shylark57

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 14:59

The irony of what this particular forum discussion shows, is that there are, apparently, a LOT of less than honorable people and guilds out there. (I was going to add more here, but I think that pretty much says it all.) 

Make a Easy exploit and they will Come... Sort of Sad that it is going like this... But not surprised at all.... 



#106 wil72

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 15:16

I feel for the cows at times, I really do. Here's another new addition to the game, one that I personally like, that is getting shot down in flames. Why? Because players are winging their way to high tiers in the new medals in no time and by doing so it is seen as an exploit. So what, who cares, who gives a rats arse. Not me, that's for sure, do they gain any advantage over me by doing so...duh, no. These types of medals were called for by the so called " community ", I've read many threads in the forums asking for similar medals in the past. And hey, guess what, you got a few of them. Great! And the fact that players are using IN GAME MECHANICS to race ahead in obtaining higher tiers in the new medals means nothing to me. It won't devalue my medals when I finally get a few, I'll look on them proudly and no give a stuff how other players view them.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72


Edited by wil72, 22 February 2014 - 15:30.


#107 Belaric

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 15:52

 I mean who attacks a relic knowing they are going to loose? If my stats are too low I just don't attack it.

I liked Uralus' comment for this, not the collaborator thing, which is unfortunate to have happened, but the milk is well and truly spilled (sorry korova!), and it is what it is. As I said before - if folk are having fun and playing the game - who are we to judge? Let the players play, man! No benefit to a medal, just the medal.

 

But that quoted sentence does sum up the weakness of the relic medal - most people will not attack a relic for real unless they are pretty sure they re going to win, and will only lose on a dodge/2% miss, if that, as you'll normally attack with some sort of safety stat.

 

A medal based on time holding relics would have been more appropriate as a measure of actually defending the realm (and harder to  abuse!) - time spent on the walls manning the defences. I wish that had been the route chosen. If HCS anticipated a problem with hit swapping on a medal for successful relic takes, how could you not anticipate the same thing happening with relic defends? Especially in combination with a medal for joining groups?? One guild build up ticks for the defends as the other guild builds up ticks for the group joins required to make the failed attack. Sorry HCS, but I have to..... *facepalm*

 

P.S. I do not want it changed. That would suck for the folk who have spent time playing to get the medal as it stands. Leave it be. Maybe incorporate a new medal in the future... along with the ladder participation medal and the devotion medal - LOL!


Edited by Belaric, 22 February 2014 - 15:56.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#108 wil72

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 16:00



 

 


P.S. I do not want it changed. That would suck for the folk who have spent time playing to get the medal as it stands. Leave it be. Maybe incorporate a new medal in the future... along with the ladder participation medal and the devotion medal - LOL!

 

I say DO change it, just for the comedy factor if nothing else :P

 

Cheers.

 

wil72



#109 Belaric

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 16:12

I say DO change it, just for the comedy factor if nothing else :P

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

LMAO!!

 

I do think this makes it harder for folk to argue not to make changes to game mechanics based on it nerfing a medal.

 

If, as the consensus seems to have been here that all medals can be gained in a less than originally intended fashion, and the achievement matters to the individual involved more than what it means to anyone else, then arguing to preserve the purity of any given medal is on pretty uncertain ground.

 

Look at the chequered history of the dominance medal, pre and post ladder as an example. (My faulty memory recalls it being famously traded for in terms of rating pre ladder, and being sneered at as an achievement.) Or ask Shardoom as he watches his achievement with the Chest medal get diluted by the increased number and frequency of chest spawns. Or anyone who bought the gigantic gold stash and held it for a week to get the hoarder medal etc.

 

Can we pick and choose which medals matter?


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#110 Belaric

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 16:33

GUILD ADVISOR

 

While I'm on a roll... it just occurred to me that not using the guild advisor stats and backdating the medals is odd.

 

What sort of guild does not have the advisor? It is one of the first structures anyone buys - is there a guild without it in the game - that is not solo? Those stats are almost universal, and these are guild medals.

 

The medals were not backdated because people who had left guilds would not get credit? I can see the argument that it is fairer... but this morning I'm liking it less. As it is a whole lot of not very fair to a large population in the game that has stuck with their guild.

 

That population who are, you know, good guildies and have stayed the course get no credit. Guild hoppers get the benefit of a clean slate. Which population is more guild orientated, I ask? Awesome.

 

And yes I know people have been with guilds for years, and then left to start their own guilds, or gone on tours etc. etc. These are all personal choices however. I understand why the clean slate - I'm just grumpy and don't like it this morning.

 

Anyone in a guild has guild advisor stats. They are damn near universal in guilds. Yes people who have moved around would not get the benefit of their efforts in previous guilds (that data is lost forever I assume), but this implementation tells folk who were loyal and can look at their stats and see what medals they could/would/should qualify for if the medals were backdated - tough cheese, that guild effort doesn't count.

 

I fell out of bed the wrong side this morning.


Edited by Belaric, 22 February 2014 - 16:36.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#111 Egami

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 17:45

I disagree on Guild Advisor being used. I understand the "outrage" but could really care less. Hoof's explanation was logical.

 

I had over 51k skills cast before these medals were implemented. Guess what? I haven't done mass buffing to get the medal. I'll get it in time...

 

It puts everyone on the same level. I don't care.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love my medals. I work hard for all of them. Some of them I will probably never get. Some of them I doubt at this point it is even possible for me to get, lol.

 

As many have said all throughout this thread... some of these are "easy" to get. My response is simply: "And?"

 

As far as I'm concerned, all FS Players are free to do with their stam what they see fit. These are not so different than the Smasher medal.

 

A large majority of FS as usual has this completely "me, me" attitude which has always been quite annoying to me.

 

I will get my Guild Booster medal the exact same way I got my 51k+ skills cast in our Guild Advisor before this medal came out. Why should I care if a lot of people happily wasted stam to get theirs? Why should I attempt to force other FS Players to be the same as me? I won't... in fact, I refuse to.

 

That said, I'll repeat the constructive part. Personally, I'd like to see these medals highlighted via the Guild Log. Since I realize that some people might not like that GL addition, perhaps it could be made a Guild Preference to have it included or not.

 

In any case... thanks again to HCS for the hard work. I can say that, from what I've seen... it's had a positive impact on activity no matter what that activity is being applied to, lol.

 

Prosperous smacking everybody! (o0



#112 RebornJedi

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 18:18

GUILD ADVISOR

this is why i think it was a great idea why these guild medals (really only guild bolster and team player) aren't retroactive using guild advisor stats  -  your guild advisor stats are saved forever in any guild you have been in.. so i could say, just jump back into an old home and bam! have a ruby guild bolster/team player.. thats pretty cheap. you shouldn't be able to join a guild and get a medal instantly just because of your previous adventures there. 

 

plus guild treasurer and defender of the realm i can't see being even possible to be retroactive so i'm glad they made all of them start fresh..


Edited by RebornJedi, 22 February 2014 - 18:19.

 


#113 Belaric

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 18:20

I disagree on Guild Advisor being used. I understand the "outrage" but could really care less. Hoof's explanation was logical.

I'm not outraged, just grumpy. Need my second cup of tea.

 

Scenario: If the medals had been introduced with backdated stats for guild advisor people would have accepted that - and liked their shiny new medals.

 

Others would probably have come in and complained that they just left a guild and lost out. Or had been in 2-4 guilds and contributed lots and were getting no credit.

 

And it is quite likely they would be told - tough luck - you chose to leave that/those guilds. These medals are rewarding guild effort - your efforts in your current guild are being rewarded, same as everyone else.

 

Just sayin'.

 

New medals are always welcome. In game activity is always welcome - it is good to see people burning up the charts and getting these new medals - it shows they are involved and active in the game - those huge medal pages are a good thing - it shows active, participating players. I am very happy about that. the honour/dishonour thing - I'm going to get the deposit medal pretty fast, and not because my guild's gold balance is going up hugely - I am gaming that medal, I cannot fault others for gaming the others. I have stated my preference on the relic medal - hopefully a new medal along duration lines can be designed in future.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#114 Belaric

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 18:27

this is why i think it was a great idea why these guild medals (really only guild bolster and team player) aren't retroactive using guild advisor stats  -  your guild advisor stats are saved forever in any guild you have been in.. so i could say, just jump back into an old home and bam! have a ruby guild bolster/team player.. thats pretty cheap. you shouldn't be able to join a guild and get a medal instantly just because of your previous adventures there. 

 

plus guild treasurer and defender of the realm i can't see being even possible to be retroactive so i'm glad they made all of them start fresh..

I disagree on jumping back and it being cheap. I did not know your stats were kept in old guild's advisor, interesting. If that is the case then you could have all your activity across all guilds added up and backdated. No problem for people who have helped multiple guilds!

 

Your plus points.... I do kind of agree. If the number of deposits is not recorded anywhere then it would have to start afresh. The defender of the realm, well I just do not like the design of it, as stated elsewhere.

 

What medals have been backdated previously? Any? If there is no precedent I should just let it go. If there is....

 

EDIT: The guild loyalty medals were back dated as I recall! Ho ho!! I got like bronze and silver and gold and maybe even crystal all at once! I stand to be corrected, of course.

 

So why not back date bolster and group join - especially if the data is there for people across any guild they have been in? Deposits and defence as entirely new beasts can be just that.


Edited by Belaric, 22 February 2014 - 19:48.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#115 BraveKath

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 20:00

The wisdom of what do I care what the other guy does to manipulate to a medal with no value other than bling is not lost on me, so I appreciate the views of others on that, and that with some sleep and I am of the same mine - who gives a rat's .....  Still think it's putszy, but then again I earned my Dom & Smasher medal going up hill both ways through the snow *shakes her cane*, and I'll earn these (or not) in the same manner - call me old fashioned or silly - that's fine, both are probably true.

..... ANYWAY ....

Guild Advisor being used for Medals to me is logical and fair, and encourages guild loyalty if you want it.  And yes, Rebornjedi is right -- guild advisor stats are saved, thus when I returned to the Highway the Advisor stats reflect my past contributions as well as my current.  The guild manage page xp contributed only reflects current, not the prior and current values.

 I'm thinking along the lines of Top 10 concept: Top 10 in all the various categories, which then mirrors other medals in the game and duration holding that Top 10 position will then earn advancement from Bronze to Crystal.

Should it be like Guild Loyalty - leave the guild, lose it? Possibly.  It might be cool, though not sure how this could be programmed to have the medal be faded or changed in some visible manner when you left a guild, thus you would retain it, but it would be obvious that you earned that medal in a prior guild and you could earn it again, and then have that "replace" the old medal?  That may be a programming nightmare - not sure, or you just amass more medals.  

Guild loyalty is a good thing; however, I think it can be over-rated and sometimes a player's game is sparked by moving around a bit and seeing how other guilds work and getting to know more players: keeps things lively and I'm glad that I roamed around a bit myself before coming back home to The Highway, as no place like home.

Alternatively to the medals not being with you permanently - There could be a medal for earning 2 or 3 of the medals and if you do that, that medal stays with you regardless of guild movement, and they could grow incrementally, just like the others.

Just some thoughts.  Hope one and all enjoy the weekend.
 


Edited by BraveKath, 22 February 2014 - 20:02.


#116 bloody18

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 20:38

Myself and my guild are having a lot of fun working on these medals!  Great thing about them ..you can do them or not do them :) As for me and my family we will do them :)


Edited by bloody18, 22 February 2014 - 20:45.


#117 Egami

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 21:14

@my fellow overly-wordy poster... no worries... coffee didn't help me and my last frigging post was, I openly admit, way too grumpy, lmao.

 

I agree on the analysis... but on the other side of things (and outside subjective questions of honorable or dishonorable medal acquisitions) Well, I guess the question would be: what would be the point?

 

That said, from your #113 post, I don't think we really disagree. For everybody, including Belaric, that has no idea what I'm talking about: Guild Advisor.

 

Everybody with experience know that Guild Advisor is 100% inefficient. It has some pluses depending on how you want to use it, but I'd wholly argue against using it for practically anything, lol. Trust me, using my depos for the Guild states nothing with respect to how much of my own gold I've actually donated. To summarize, it's simply there if Guilds want to use it for something. I personally like that the stats are saved, but it in no-way-whatsoever defines what a player does for their Guild.

 

That all said. I am 100% against it being used for anything else. It's an internal Guild thingie and, like Hoof said, not everybody uses it and I fully understand why it's a waste to get. That said, I am also 100% against it being "free".

 

THE POINT: I would argue that absolutely any update on anything NOT use past data.

 

What's great about the current medals update is that it puts everybody on the same level. Like Belaric said, I could have got a free Diamond medal with the Guild Booster... but who the heck cares? Lots of people are burning stam to get theirs... that's great to me. Even though I have my ideas about how it should be earned.

 

However, I think it's better for the game that even us oldies have to work for the credit. I would argue that ALL new medals have to start from zero. It seems to me to be the only fair starting point. And deep down, I hardly think people could disagree with this lowly guild guy that is myself and has 51k+ skills cast on Guildies... that anything would have changed on my past behavior or that it somehow negatively affects me.

 

As a Guild member, I don't need a medal to know what I or my Guildies (past and present) have done for the Guild. Just like I don't need a Guild Advisor.

 

I love these new medals because they help teamwork. I don't care if they are easy to "abuse". If people want to use their stam or energy to "abuse" the system and get them. IT HURTS NO ONE AND GIVES NO UNFAIR ADVANTAGE TO ANYONE. A shiny medal (or lack thereof) isn't going to make me think you are a better player.

 

What I'm going to see is a reason to think about what you can do and how you can help your Guild. That to me, is a positive. (o0



#118 Egami

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 21:25

All that said... BK's suggestion did seem curious to me...

 

While I fully believe that these Guild medals shouldn't be transferable, I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of "Guild Status" medal to reward players that get Guild medals and actually is transferable.

 

In other words, you get the X guild medal in one guild and get a "Guild Status" point. Those could stay with you no matter where you go.

 

It might be an interesting idea for those doing "tours" and also give some credit to those who needed to change guilds. Sounds like a good idea to me... thoughts?



#119 tharzill

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 21:50

GUILD ADVISOR

 

While I'm on a roll... it just occurred to me that not using the guild advisor stats and backdating the medals is odd.

 

What sort of guild does not have the advisor? It is one of the first structures anyone buys - is there a guild without it in the game - that is not solo? Those stats are almost universal, and these are guild medals.

Yep! There s actually at least one guild without it. Old Buggrs. I know. I am a member.  :D 

 

The medals were not backdated because people who had left guilds would not get credit? I can see the argument that it is fairer... but this morning I'm liking it less. As it is a whole lot of not very fair to a large population in the game that has stuck with their guild.

 

That population who are, you know, good guildies and have stayed the course get no credit. Guild hoppers get the benefit of a clean slate. Which population is more guild orientated, I ask? Awesome.

 

And yes I know people have been with guilds for years, and then left to start their own guilds, or gone on tours etc. etc. These are all personal choices however. I understand why the clean slate - I'm just grumpy and don't like it this morning.

 

Anyone in a guild has guild advisor stats. They are damn near universal in guilds. Yes people who have moved around would not get the benefit of their efforts in previous guilds (that data is lost forever I assume), but this implementation tells folk who were loyal and can look at their stats and see what medals they could/would/should qualify for if the medals were backdated - tough cheese, that guild effort doesn't count.

 

I fell out of bed the wrong side this morning.



#120 Belaric

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 21:59

Well Egami, we can disagree - I see no issue with using old info for medal implementation, if it is clear, as the buff's cast and group joins would be. That we have had a backdated (guild loyalty, I believe) medal in the past shows it has been done, albeit with simpler info.

 

HCS gave their reasoning for going their way. I am cool with that, but feel it is still my right to question it. I do not think the relic medal is a winner in terms of it implementation, but if they did implement it and the group join medal with the intention of helping separate guilds co-operate to gain medals for their members then tip of the hat, job done. I do not judge those that have done it - they are, as I have said many times now - playing the game, and it is meant to be fun - if folk are enjoying themselves, having fun and harming no-one, as is the case here, then great.

 

I also feel it is fair to voice sadness that those who have done sterling work for years are not recognised. I do not see another 5 years in this game, to be honest, so I do not see me matching my previous levels of activity in-guild. I may be happily wrong. I shall start again with my accumulation of guild buffs and group joins. Them's the rules.

 

I too, as can be seen from my posts above, am happy at the game activity represented in those medals. I have no issue with folk playing the game and having fun.

 

As a general philosophical point this makes me less inclined to listen to any arguments about the game that invoke "it ruins X medal" from now on, as most folk on here seem agreed that how (the method employed) people gain these medals is not entirely the point, it is more that the medals are being gained - how that is done can matter to the individual alone as a matter of personal pride in accomplishment.

 

Got to go... wife wants help with grouting.....


Edited by Belaric, 22 February 2014 - 22:00.

Good-bye and hello, as always.



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