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My Suggestions for reviving the Bounty Board (And this is quite radical)


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#141 Belaric

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 13:54

after many novels I am simply going to pose a couple of RHETORICAL questions to the OP.

 

1) Will this change bring more players to the game?

 

and

 

2) Who is this change really geared at?

 

 

Keeping in mind these questions are rhetorical, I can honestly not see anything positive coming from the the suggestions offered , therefore I obviously do not support them.

 

A lot of posters think they have all the answers yet they haven't walked in the other parties shoes. Something else to ponder on.

 

I am not going to try to 'debate' the matter either, as it's nothing more than a spherical sharp tugging motion thread now.

This will be my last answer of the morning. Thank you everyone for your patience.

 

I have asked a lot of questions that have not been answered. Unlike my unanswered questions, which I believe have been left unanswered because the truth would undermine the defenders of the status quo, I will answer yours. Rhetorical or not.

 

Will this change bring more players to the game?

 

YES. Because it will slow or halt player loss - increased retention, especially among new players will lead to increase in online numbers. Why will this happen? Because as I have stated - a system that demonstrates actual fair punishment for unprovoked attacks and gold hits will restore player faith in the game. Currently that does not exist, and that is part of why the BB is not used - the population that should be using it, has no faith in it anymore. People who feel they have no recourse in the face of aggression with now have that, and not be forced to either suck up life as a random victim, or leave the game. if fewer people leave, the game numbers go up. Everyone wins - even the PvP players! They get more targets if they are prepared to accept the medicine for their attacks. They can regain those levels -just hit that champ. With a more active BB more PvP players may stay too - something will be there for them to do! Depends on whether they really want to play PvP or just like easy wins over targets who are not ready for them.

 

Who is this change really geared at?

 

An odd question, but I'll take the bait as I have no fear of being honest here in my answers. I could say it is geared at helping the whole game population, and I believe that is true, but if you want me to be specific I will say it is geared at the PvP population who have long enjoyed advantages through counter bounty, and this has translated into advantages/ control of the BB, minimising risk to the PvP community and allowing them freedom of action. This has ironically led their own game into stagnation, if they would but see it. It is totally unbalanced, and that has led the wider population to 1) not participate as it is pointless - they get no benefit, 2) Harass HCS for other forms of protection, as the PvP system itself provides none. This then led to PvP being more marginalised. This situation has not arisen quickly. It should have been noted and addressed years ago. This is my opinion only. You are free to disagree - but no-one has really refuted my arguments in the slightest about how this has come about. If they can - more power to them.

 

You know, I believe I have put myself in the other parties shoes - can the PvP community say the same? I have seen little empathy or consideration for the persons attacked here. cleardawn excepted. I have, time and again demonstrated a willingness to converse and to put Ideas forward that I think will help PvP players play PvP against other players. That I have taken on some sacred cows in the process makes it uncomfortable - fine. PvP shapes the entire game - I have demonstrated that also. I am entitled to my opinions.

 

Interesting that your first and I presume only post is to ask questions, ridicule asking questions and then say you'll not bother debating. Your choice.

 

Have a good day folks. I've spent 2 hours here already. I appreciate the input.


Edited by Belaric, 09 April 2014 - 15:38.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#142 leefylee

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 18:07

Remain civil please. 

 

Why would there be no PvP hits? Nothing in PvP will have changed. People can still hit for gold and under this proposed idea, the Bountied PvPer would lose less levels, something you've all claimed you don't care about. There's actually the potential for LESS punishment here. Everyone seems to be bent out of shape because of no counter bounties, which is ridiculous. The removal of that would allow new players a chance to learn PvP, giving them a taste of it. They wouldn't be very good initially but they'd learn. Then, they might well step into PvP proper.

have you ever pvp'd??  i see by your medals you take part in some aspects of your own game, but i dont see any pvp linked medals there... 

as vas said, why would anyone take the first swing, knowing once they get one the board ( for a pittance of gold,that they stole as thievery rate sux ) and be open to every coward in the game who fancies swing at him with 100 stamina free from retribution...

no counter bounties = dead pvp, not quiet pvp as it is now..



#143 leefylee

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 18:12

heres an idea that will get the BB busy....

how about when i 100 stam people and they lose xp ,I SHOULD GAIN IT



#144 Undjuvion

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 18:23

have you ever pvp'd??  i see by your medals you take part in some aspects of your own game, but i dont see any pvp linked medals there... 

as vas said, why would anyone take the first swing, knowing once they get one the board ( for a pittance of gold,that they stole as thievery rate sux ) and be open to every coward in the game who fancies swing at him with 100 stamina free from retribution...

no counter bounties = dead pvp, not quiet pvp as it is now..

 

i agree on that part of it, that is that every swing is 3 levels, does one need that kind of power or is 1 level maybe closer to suitable, effectively itll stop someone hassling you unless its one of the pvpers that has 50k+ fsp but for the average pvper, how many bounties can they sustain before they cant pvp for a few weeks OR need to rebuy new gear each range till they are lvl 1, there is that side especially for a pvper who makes 5 or 10+ hits per day.



#145 Chazz224

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 18:23

I've stated my opinions on this forum already on pages 2 ( at the bottom) - through 4 as to why I don't agree with the Topic ideas. Some have said I've made Hyperbolic suggestions which only means that some people didn't like my examples feeling they meaning greatly exaggerated in not realistic.

 

I have a question for Belaric - in this new system Belaric has argued that this change to PvP and the Bounty Board would entice more people to play the game and encourage PvP in it. <----- This being said in this new system - speaking honestly would you Belaric join the ranks of PvP and steal someone's gold knowing that you will be held accountable and lose three levels?  Be honest with the people here sir - it's clear that you Belaric have no PvP medals and no experience in this field but I wanna know would you take part in this idea of yours?

 

I don't mean you attack someone just once in your lifetime - I mean would you be willing to PvP on a daily basis with this system you are proposing to the community?

 

I suspect your answer to be a very strong No but if so keep in mind it sincerely should be a strong YES if you are so noble should it not?

 

I feel differently than Belaric - I've explained many times how PvP ( in it's current state while lacking at the moment has great potential)  PvP keeps people playing - it keeps them " Active - Online " PvP supports the AH and the Buff Market. <------ I've advocated in prior and previous threads / topics  for expanding these areas of the game. It's my feeling that if everyone was well versed and new how to PvP where they would be able to capitalize here and there with the current system more would take part in this which would lead to a healthy bounty board - also a very active community of people.

 

I don't feel that turning fallen sword into a Sigma Storm will help. I could be wrong about this just as I could be wrong about Belaric willing to join the PvP community. Yes, very unlikely that I am wrong on either account but it's possible. There are numerous threads / topics up at this very minute that support PvP - support the community - ideas that positively help and encourage PvP through out the game, I may not feel this is one or one of the best - however that's just my opinion.

 

So Belaric if you are not willing to join the PvP community now or even with your new idea - my question is why should any of us? I've told you I wouldn't be one of the people you will see there.... Also Belaric if you are unwilling to 100 stam people and go to the bounty board to lose your level what makes you think anyone else would just curious? <---- Does this sound very motivating and positive for the game ? Sounds like we are talking about killing pvp or making it punishable by the max and than hopping more will join due to this idea - but it was and is my belief we've lost more people due to PvP being nerf'd.

 

- Chazz



#146 j3k

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 20:27

I do like the medal idea 


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#147 DomCorvis

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 22:25

have you ever pvp'd??  i see by your medals you take part in some aspects of your own game, but i dont see any pvp linked medals there... 

as vas said, why would anyone take the first swing, knowing once they get one the board ( for a pittance of gold,that they stole as thievery rate sux ) and be open to every coward in the game who fancies swing at him with 100 stamina free from retribution...

no counter bounties = dead pvp, not quiet pvp as it is now..

 

 

No counter bounties means EVERY chump thats over my level will be 100 stamming me. And why? because they have NO fear of being retaliated upon. The theft rates these days SUCK. 8-30% of gold depending on theivery rate(100% if MT kicks in which ask around is VERY rare). So why would i basically give up a guarunteed 3 levels for what....200k gold at most usually? makes no sense. And as pointed ouot...would KILL pvp. But i hate to agree with conspiracy theorists but i am beginning to suspect is what the underlying motive is

 

*edit-this is in regards to Grim's post.
 


Edited by DomCorvis, 09 April 2014 - 22:27.

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#148 cleardawn

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 22:26

have you ever pvp'd??  i see by your medals you take part in some aspects of your own game, but i dont see any pvp linked medals there... 

as vas said, why would anyone take the first swing, knowing once they get one the board ( for a pittance of gold,that they stole as thievery rate sux ) and be open to every coward in the game who fancies swing at him with 100 stamina free from retribution...

no counter bounties = dead pvp, not quiet pvp as it is now..

*puts finger on leefy's lips* grim was thinking up pvp when it was still a twickle in hoofs eye sweets, im not questioning your views just be cool ;)


Edited by cleardawn, 09 April 2014 - 22:27.


#149 Ryebred

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 22:33

If this goes through - can we add ability to bounty to GvG as well?  I think that the top PvP guild in game (based on the suggestions here) - should be the toughest bunch ever - 3 levels per hit x 25 per participant would certainly demonstrate that toughness - I mean you are forcing GvG down the throats of bunnies, and innocents just trying to enjoy their "leveling" game - repair costs are annoying too -think we should separate the men from the boys + give everyone something to think about before pressing that attack button from anywhere. (other then the honorable & untouchable bounty hunters of course) The list specifies Top PvP guild -it should represent this right? 


Edited by Ryebred, 09 April 2014 - 22:45.


#150 Ryebred

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 23:23

While we are discussing great ideas -can we increase the artificial intelligence in game; so the mobs attack the players + make a few safe spots with high rents to add more gold sink & challenge.  I mean those poor hordes of PvE creatures have no chance in the face of the buffed up peer player in FS - wouldn't it not be great & cool to allow these hordes to attack any player constantly on sight - instead sitting as idle bunnies?  Would require people wishing to relic defend or sit on virtual level maps to stay buffed & geared to stand against them..or stay at the high rent Protection Plaza..where occupancy has it's limits, and vast costs ;) + those costs scale based on demand of players wanting to stay the night...100 rooms, and auction to get one.   I'm into fair play - just want things to get as hairy for everyone all around. 


Edited by Ryebred, 09 April 2014 - 23:33.


#151 DomCorvis

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 23:36

While we are discussing great ideas -can we increase the artificial intelligence in game; so the mobs attack the players + make a few safe spots with high rents to add more gold sink & challenge.  I mean those poor hordes of PvE creatures have no chance in the face of the buffed up peer player in FS - wouldn't it not be great & cool to allow these hordes to attack any player constantly on sight - instead sitting as idle bunnies?  Would require people wishing to relic defend or sit on virtual level maps to stay buffed & geared to stand against them..or stay at the high rent Protection Plaza..where occupancy has it's limits, and vast costs ;) + those costs scale based on demand of players wanting to stay the night...100 rooms, and auction to get one.   I'm into fair play - just want things to get as hairy for everyone all around. 

 

 

This is probably the best idea in the whole thread!!!


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#152 Chazz224

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 23:38

While we are discussing great ideas -can we increase the artificial intelligence in game; so the mobs attack the players + make a few safe spots with high rents to add more gold sink & challenge.  I mean those poor hordes of PvE creatures have no chance in the face of the buffed up peer player in FS - wouldn't it not be great & cool to allow these hordes to attack any player constantly on sight - instead sitting as idle bunnies?  Would require people wishing to relic defend or sit on virtual level maps to stay buffed & geared to stand against them..or stay at the high rent Protection Plaza..where occupancy has it's limits, and vast costs ;) + those costs scale based on demand of players wanting to stay the night...100 rooms, and auction to get one.   I'm into fair play - just want things to get as hairy for everyone all around. 

This idea has some promising intrigue - and I could really see this idea being implemented - but to be fair do the mobs / creatures  have to 100 stam you? Or can we purpose their are a variety of different amounts of stam used ?

Like if I sit on a champion or one appears on the square that should 100 stam me for sure or a titan - but a normal mob can that be limited to only using 50 stam per hr while offline ? Seems very fair to me.

 

- Chazz



#153 vastilos

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 00:16

I'm certainly up for it, yes. I've asked Hoofmaster to look into that with me.

 

Grim, I think you misunderstood me. I meant that Master Thief be set to activate 50% of the time and if Master Thief doesn't activate, then Thievery takes 50% of gold on hand.



#154 Pardoux

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:49

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Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#155 Stoneman

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:13

To return the game to the activity it had, I vote to return the game to its roots -- what it once was.  Follow the thread of changes and the players' agendas for those changes and we find ourselves where we are now.   You had it right HCS.  Return to what worked. 



#156 BigGrim

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:58

have you ever pvp'd??  i see by your medals you take part in some aspects of your own game, but i dont see any pvp linked medals there... 

 

Yeah, I have a little but generally, I don't have much time to play the game. I always attack back when attacked in PvP. 

 

I do want to write up a Quest for the early levels of the game explaining that this is a PvP game/world and that they have to be prepared. I'd most likely want to link it to Chazz's excellent PvP Tutorial thread.



#157 Mzzery

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:10

I seriously don't have time to read the whole thread.. lol.. sorry if I reply to something that's already been addressed, but I'm curious and want to know some things. 

 

I am very much against these suggested changes, and some of the additional changes suggested in the thread. 

 

"If you play and hit now you supposedly risk 5 for every hit and are good with that. In this system you'd have more risk of losing levels, but more people would bounty and more people would bounty hunt -rather than a dead BB you might get one to actually play on. "

 

What do you base that opinion on? To bounty hunt (successfully I might add), you need a LOT of gear. I don't see why this would make people want to invest in 100+ items so they could start bounty hunting. I'd be real interested in hearing what you base this on, since I like knowing how people think :)

 

In my system you lose a bit more XP, and you get your game back, the BB arises as players will Bh who otherwise would never give it a shot. new blood 

 

I disagree. More people might bounty hunt, but there wouldn't be very many bounties to compete for.

 

And why lose 3 instead of 5? 

 

And why try to make people that don't like to pvp start pvping?  It's not the lack of pvpers that keeps the BB dead. Back when I started bounty hunting, there were usually 6+ pages of bounties to clear, at all times. Back then, the ladder wasn't opt-in, so it was more active pvp going on, people didn't ONLY get hit for gold. (on a side-note: I don't think ladder hits should be bountyable, since the ladder IS opt-in, but that's off topic here.)

 

And yeah, why try to make more people pvp? In my experience, a lot of the levellers in the game already think there's too many of us ;) 

 

 

 

"would be if the victim suceeds in ONE attempt WITHIN a ~24~ hour period after being attacked(victorious over their attacker WITH EXCEMPTION of themselves being bountied) they have their xp returned, they get ALL their gold back(which would stay in a loading zone till it was decided who it goes to) and a tick towards a new "honour" medal, would be in my view the best change and although this would be disagreed with heavily that if they fail in winning against the attacker THEN they can opt to post a bounty .... THIS would promote pvp to some or at least the various personalities i picture as willing to participate who probably never would smile.png"

 

... and this part would also kill off pvp very effetively. I know it might sound like a good idea, but let me say this... 

 

If I attack someone for gold, and have to wait 24 hours to get it, AND risk not getting it at all, why would I even bother? My buffs and the stamina I spent buffing up and attacking would have gone down the drain. If I did succeed getting the gold after those 24 hours, I myself would in effect become someone else's target for a gold hit, unless I was online and able to hide the gold. Should I be punished because someone wasn't smart enough to hide their gold? This would be a death sentence to pvp.

 

I appreciate the time people take to consider the bounty board and pvp, but I don't agree at all with these suggestions.

 

If you think about it this way, you might understand a bit better why we pvp:

 

Any game you play where you risk losing nothing, will start to bore you eventually. If you know you will win no matter what you do, what makes you strive to become better at it? What makes you invest time and perhaps money into a game? For me, a game needs a bit of challenge, but I don't wanna jump through 300 different hurdles to MAYBE get what I want. It's all about math really. If I smack someone and get their gold, I am happy. If they can bounty me and take 5, they get happy. On the other hand, if I risk less (just 3 levels instead of 5), why would someone bother bountying me? They'd get less happy. If I had to sit online 24 hours after a gold hit, I might never ever sleep, since I might want to gold hit during those 24 hours too... and have to wait longer... and then find even more targets... and wait another 24 hours... I have a life outside of FS, so I'd never gold-hit again.

 

This whole thing is very frustrating to me. I know one thing that would put some activity back on the BB, and that would be to remove the opt-in on the ladder, and make every single player a target again for ladder-hits. That too has it's problems though, since it's been a while now since it was implemented. A lot of people would get very upset if it was removed. 

 

It's not an easy thing to balance, but I know for sure that the things suggested in this thread WERE implemented, it would make me just up and find something else to do, some other game to play, something with more "game" in it than would be left in FS. 

 

Just my 2 cents :)


Edited by Mzzery, 10 April 2014 - 12:16.


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#158 Mzzery

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:21

... I forgot to add this:

There's not really a lack of pvpers in FS... there is a lack of REASONS to pvp though. Making it easier to get more gold when you smack someone would be a good insentive to pvp.

 

Also.... deflect shouldn't activate on the bounty board. 

 

NOW I'm done. lol :)



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#159 BigGrim

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:36

Having spoken with Hoofmaster, we're seriously reconsidering the PvP Ladder system. We're looking to review it, possibly removing it and replacing it with the original PvP system. We think that might help. I personally think the ladder watered PvP down.

#160 Davros81

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 13:16

What ruined the ladder was the opt in system, which ironically was suggested by a pvper and championed by the very people who now think it ruined it... The ladder with no opt in was fine revert it to that form and you're a winner.


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