42 replies to this topic

[Anakiro]

Despair, Silence and Templars

Since we addressed a bug in 1.13a regarding silence generating threat we've seen a lot of upset Templars letting us know about the impact it's had on Despair in particular. We wanted to share some things with you about that.

 

Firstly, silence does not effect creatures. It is, at present, a PvP only effect. This is why the threat generation has been removed from it. We do intend to make silence effect creatures eventually, but this involves changing every creature attack in the game.

 

When silence is enabled for creatures it will apply threat again. This will work in the same way that stuns apply threat at present. We will be sure to let you know when we begin adjusting creatures to be susceptible to silence.

 

We've also found an issue with the talent Impalement. Once that's resolved you should see more threat generation from there, though we are looking to improve the Templar's threat generation more than that. 

 

What I would like to ask you all now is what can we do to boost the threat generation again for Templars? We have ideas of our own, but we would also like the community's input. Which abilities would you like to see improved? Perhaps there are abilities you don't see as being very useful as they are and we can try and get them back into your rotation.

 

 

Trappers Atoll Improvements

 

The Plasma Lord

Bear in mind the Plasma Lord is coming, and should be a major draw to the realm.

 

The idea is that, without needing to be in a group, everyone can attack him and then receive rewards no matter how much damage you end up doing. This means we can reward level 45s and level 15s who are participating in the same event.

 

What we'd love to hear are your ideas about what kind of loot you'd like to see dropping from the Plasma Lord. At the moment we're thinking of a mixture of potions, vanity and gear. But we're always open to more suggestions.

 

Reward/Risk Balance

We want people who dare to take the risk of visiting the Atoll to have potentially beneficial rewards. We plan to have higher yield resource nodes which spawn in farmable clusters. These nodes will drop PvP variants of the resources which will drop upon death in Trappers Atoll. The resources will be convertible to normal resources in Eldevin City somewhere.

 

Also the Atoll chests will additionally contain a quantity of PvP Gold, with the same behavior as the resources; drop on death. Again it can be converted into regular gold back in Eldevin.

 

Opinions?

We would love to hear what you guys think about this. We're putting the finishing touches to the area just now, so it's a perfect time to get our attention and let us know what you think!

[ernzor]

All sounds good to me. Just started tanking on my alt today. Probably not the best to give opinion on it yet...

 

Looking forward to Plasma Lord!

Edited by ernzor, 03 June 2014 - 10:35.

[Alteration]

There's been a lot of complaints that inciting cry is bugged.  It grabs aggro for 6 seconds, then resets aggro back to 0, so it does more harm than good especially on healer/templar builds.  

 

There is also a bug with stouthearted, where if you remove armor, and put it back on, the 6% bonus armor is not applied until you relog into the game.  

 

Personally, I stopped playing templar because tremor and impale does not feel "smooth".  They are "instant" casts but take 1-2 seconds to actually cast.  Delay, being stunned, or moving a bit cancels these skills.  Making these smoother will help tank grab initial aggro more consistently, and allow tanks to also cast these skills in the middle of pulling large groups of mobs, to help generate early aggro.  

 

I also think the -25/50 second cooldown and +3/6 second duration on taunt talent as redundant.  I'm sure that the idea is you don't want just any random warrior/assassin/ranger/mage/prophet have 10 sec cd taunt, but this is pretty much required to max for all templars.  I think combining these 2 talents and moving them to 9 or 12 points in templar tree as a requirement would be a good idea.  This would free up talents for templars, prevent everyone from lowering it's cd to 10 seconds, and still be available for hybrid builds.  It would also be great to allow it to be cast on PvP (even if it has no effect), just to trigger the 40% reflect damage for templars wanting to PvP.

 

Furthermore, templar cooldowns are ridiculously long.  Frozen phalanx/blessed shield/empathize.  You'd see runs where the entire team has to pause for 30 seconds after *every* mob group clear to wait for templars cooldowns to refresh.  I'm sure the idea is of course, not to allow these skills to be perma casted, but templars have the least haste of all the classes.  They invest a lot of stats into vitality, and they have no haste talent at all.  Why not lower the cds of these 3 abilities, and also lower their duration by a small amount (to prevent permanent buffing).  

 

Another ability that is a waste of space in the templar tree is bloodbath.  For the amount of talents you can invest in it, it only hits 3 enemies.  Either make it into a full single target dps, or full aoe ability.  If you want to keep the talents for bloodbath in all 3 melee dps trees, I suggest 2 points in templar (bloodbath steals 3% of all damage done), 2 points in warrior (bloodbath deals 15/30% more damage), 2 points in assassin (bloodbath cd reduced by 2/4 seconds), all requiring 9 minimum talent points in their respective trees, with a unique effect where if you invest all 6 points (need at least 11 in templar + warrior + assassin for this), bloodbath will become a full aoe damage abiltiy.  

 

As for disables (stun/snare/slow/silence), I still think these should have an effect on bosses.  Then boss fights can be created with more strategies available (boss randomly aggros, and has to be snared for a few seconds, boss will cast a nasty spell and has to be silenced, etc), and survival is not left up to just the templar and prophet; dps will have a role to play too (like the quartanox fight, which is a good addition).  To prevent permastunning/slowing/etc, increase the cooldowns of disables for all classes by giving players a buff, similar to how potions work now.  Communication between party members, timing in fights, and paying attention to what is going on will become more important then, putting the life into currently stale boss fights.

 

 

As for PvP, there should be a separate talent and attribute set available for players to choose between PvE and PvP.  Currently, there are many players who refuse to even step foot in Trappers just because they are using a PvE build, and don't want to waste 500 ep to respec, and respec back again.  

Edited by Alteration, 03 June 2014 - 11:09.

[Dave]

Looks like trappers is gona be busy even on oceanic, sounds handy for me gathering stuff for craft/gath dailys

[HuMoR]

Introduce new World boss vanity-World boss vanity only obtainable by getting a marked legendary chest.(obtain a marked vanity chest by defeating the world boss with 10 or less people) and give these chests a little bit more cash or w/e rewards in the coin bags then the normal legendary chests. Make the odds for the WB vanity items rare then the current Rarity of items from normal Legendary chests. So instead of like 12% chance...how about 2% chance? (make these Vanity items bind on pickup) =If idea is chosen etc,I could share some ideas for what might be cool in regards to corresponding world boss vanity's that people might like?(keeps WB relevant other then the norm and makes it more worth it to attempt the bosses and more rewarding for using smaller teams.)



Weapon vanity crafting-Requiring not only quests and slaying to be done but also aiding skillers.  
hoping this would actually be a 45+ content to make end game a bigger goal. Unique weapon vanities,that require a scroll to learn how to make them,but also require you to slay end game bosses,and quest to obtain them and require relevant materials to the level and rare materials.
(do a quest or quest series to open up a locked area,in the locked area can be a new boss or such that has the ability to drop the scroll that requires randomized materials for it to be crafted. then requiring a skiller or yourself to gather those materials to make said weapon vanity to be able to use.) 
-Requires higher leveled materials,but not higher level crafting/gathering from yourself to make them.
^Doesn't force people to craft if they simply choose not to
^Still helps out skillers who choose not to do end game contents or etc and they can make money
^Allows for these unique weapon vanities To be just that, UNIQUE by being bind on pick up.(once the item is crafted it is Automatically bound to whoever made it!)

Example: Flaming brute mace, lvl 32 one handed mace vanity
Requires  100-1000 Iron bars, 20-50 flakes, 20 fine sharpening stones,scroll(substitutes remnants) 10-30 pure iron ore.

Only used higher tier of current capped to make a example, Would like these scaled up to 45+ if it were chosen and released.  So instead of iron,choose whichever will be the new higher tier gathering materials.

 1) new talents implemented for each class. 2) possibly more threat added to already in game ability/talents. 3) more ability ideas for each set class (45). 4) asking for more moves to get extra random effects or even gear or set bonuses for extra effects. EX: templar heavy set receive 5-10% extra threat(fabled maybe 15-20%) , or vindicate when specced gives additional 5,10,15 % threat to any enemies effected by vindicate ability and also when fully capped make vindicate apply to all enemies within maybe a 5 yard radius. 

Edited by HuMoR, 03 June 2014 - 10:55.

[Medi3vil]

About Templars threat suggestions: tremor generates high threat, and yes inciting cry need fix.

[Andromeda]

There's been a lot of complaints that inciting cry is bugged.  It grabs aggro for 6 seconds, then resets aggro back to 0, so it does more harm than good especially on healer/templar builds.  

 

Personally, I stopped playing templar because tremor and impale does not feel "smooth".  They are "instant" casts but take 1-2 seconds to actually cast.  Delay, being stunned, or moving a bit cancels these skills.

 

I also think the -25/50 second cooldown and +3/6 second duration on taunt talent as redundant.  I'm sure that the idea is you don't want just any random warrior/assassin/ranger/mage/prophet have 10 sec cd taunt, but this is pretty much required to max for all templars.  I think combining these 2 talents and moving them to 9 or 12 points in templar tree as a requirement would be a good idea.  This would free up talents for templars, prevent everyone from lowering it's cd to 10 seconds, and still be available for hybrid builds.  It would also be great to allow it to be cast on PvP (even if it has no effect), just to trigger the 40% reflect damage for templars wanting to PvP.

 

Furthermore, templar cooldowns are ridiculously long.  Frozen phalanx/blessed shield/empathize.  You'd see runs where the entire team has to pause for 30 seconds after *every* mob group clear to wait for templars cooldowns to refresh.  I'm sure the idea is of course, not to allow these skills to be perma casted, but templars have the least haste of all the classes.  They invest a lot of stats into vitality, and they have no haste talent at all.  Why not lower the cds of these 3 abilities, and also lower their duration by a small amount (to prevent permanent buffing).  

 

Another ability that is a waste of space in the templar tree is bloodbath.  For the amount of talents you can invest in it, it only hits 3 enemies.  Either make it into a full single target dps, or full aoe ability.  If you want to keep the talents for bloodbath in all 3 melee dps trees, I suggest 2 points in templar (bloodbath steals 3% of all damage done), 2 points in warrior (bloodbath deals 15/30% more damage), 2 points in assassin (bloodbath cd reduced by 2/4 seconds), all requiring 9 minimum talent points in their respective trees, with a unique effect where if you invest all 6 points (need at least 11 in templar + warrior + assassin for this), bloodbath will become a full aoe damage abiltiy.  

 

As for disables (stun/snare/slow/silence), I still think these should have an effect on bosses.  Then boss fights can be created with more strategies available (boss randomly aggros, and has to be snared for a few seconds, boss will cast a nasty spell and has to be silenced, etc).  To prevent permastunning/slowing/etc, increase the cooldowns of disables for all classes by giving players a buff, similar to how potions work now.  Communication between party members, timing in fights, and paying attention to what is going on will become more important then, putting life into boss fights.

 

 

As for PvP, there should be a separate talent and attribute set available for players to choose between PvE and PvP.  Currently, there are many players who refuse to even step foot in Trappers just because they are using a PvE build, and don't want to waste 500 ep to respec, and respec back again.

 +1

Edited by Andromeda, 03 June 2014 - 11:06.

[Andromeda]

2 more areas ripe for improvement (after Trapper's Atoll) are Arena and ToC.  There is virtually no one doing them these days.  Definitely needs some improvements there. I honestly want the ToC before wherein it dropped gems. Honestly, the amount of glimmering gems the previous ToC dropped was exaggerated, the current RG/BT drops so much more of them, and they did not destroy the economy.  In fact, there is a large deficit of gems compared to the demand right now.  

Edited by Andromeda, 03 June 2014 - 11:24.

[Alphamale]

I think the easiest "temporary" fixes would be to increase to Threath generated trough Empathy.

And also when using the Talent "Defensive stance" You also have an increased threath generation of 100% You could rise this to 110-115% (Without changing it in the talent text even)

 

So that Tanks will keep aggro easier. And this are some easy fixes which can be done quiet fast (I guess)

Because I got a feeling alot is going to be changed or add some dps to shields also. Not that much maybe like 100ish dps on lvl 45 shields. This would already help alot with aggro generation without making shields generate loads of dps.

 

Also making bloodbath a hit all or a high threath skill wouldn't be wise as their are alot of warrior who're using it in their rotation. I'm not sure wether i want them to use another great threath skill. I feel as for the current boosting of aggro you'd probly be better of making impale stronger (as it requires shield and will be mainly used by templar anyway)

 

I personally feel that a templar has enough defensive abilities for the CDs i personally don't mind them as they're now. 

 

The only spell which could have lower cd might be Empathy maybe when people spend points in the "I feel your pain" Talent instead of the passing damage to me. I think it could be better to instead lowering Empathy CD by 5/10 secs instead of the 10/20 damage receiving (As I don't empathy to take their damage but to gain their threath, feels kinda useless to me to get the damage as if your healer is taking damage you already fucked up as a tank. 

 

This beeing said. I kinda want to invite fable to share his light on this as he is one of the best tanks around and might have some ideas to improve Templars. Also Dasan the drunken ninja and Huhbum should comment. As they're up there also. (And they have diffrent tank builds than the rather pure builds of Fable and myself)

 

Aaaah btw if you're going to improve templars. Do improve them but don't make them generate to much threath either. I enjoy a challenge I just don't want to be doing 90% of dungeon work with healer. As I said before it'll require lots of testing/advice from multiple tanks to get to a point of improving templars without having to endure a nerf later. Because of them beeing boosted to much.

 

 

/Glenn

Edited by Bieeeest, 03 June 2014 - 11:35.

[xpwaste]

 

 

 These nodes will drop PvP variants of the resources which will drop upon death in Trappers Atoll. The resources will be convertible to normal resources in Eldevin City somewhere.

Suggestion:

 

use these pvp resources to make items like small/medium/large bag which are used by all people and become a more valuable aspect of gathering in trappers.

• no vanity drops.
• Rare chance of droping upgradable tokens.
• 100[can be any amount but shuold be a tough amount , the higher the upgrade , more tokens be needed for it] upgradable tokens= Ability to upgrade non dungeon sets/weapons. 
• pvp resources and tokens tradeable. crafters would love to upgrade their crafted weapons and sets , as many crafters i know always wanted equips atleast equal to the dungeons sets
• upgraded weapons/sets bind on equip

 

As for templar suggestion, when i used to tank and got my 45 set there were 3 things i wanted.

• Fix of cry
• more threat generated from tremor.
• Talent in the last row of templar tree to reduce speed of durability loss by 10%

Edited by xpwaste, 03 June 2014 - 12:34.

[Neon]

Well you're giving us the option to give feedback on this so I guess I will go ahead.

 

I don't think I'll make a comment on the silence and Templar stuff, class balance is very easy to pin point and adjust. Like you've said for a basic start find the most useless ability and buff it.

 

The plasma lord, I don't like the idea of equal rewards. If this is going to be a pvp boss that needs more than one person to kill it should not have open world loot for anyone who is present for the death so long as they've put a hit in.

 

However if you are planning on scaling loot chance or the loot quality with damage dealt or threat generated then I'd agree it would be a decent idea. Basically you're rewarded for the more effort you put in.

 

As for the drops, no vanity. That is what the market is for, special events etc. To be honest I think that if this boss dropped some kind of rare material that would be used in making the best weapons in the game at a very rare rate then that would be good. (I don't class fabled weapons as that, you released them in a very bad way for the "best weapons in the game").

 

Other decent loot would be gear, but potential upgrades. You need to actually start looking at itemization and drops in the game. Everything is worthless in Eldevin, all you need is an instance set and some crafted weapons. Heroic drops and all other gear drops may as well not even be in the game, they have no use.

 

I'd suggest taking some time on this, I'd be happy to map out a great itemization system if it was going to go to use.

 

Risk/Reward Okay I really don't agree with what you've suggested here so far. Eldevin NEEDS an item, gold or gear sink if it is ever going to have a decent item system. You know games with auction houses, trading, communities revolving around trading? So many players are there for items and profit, don't miss out on that kind of player attraction.

 

Anyway, I really hope that players will lose stuff on death. This also needs some thought. Theres always the basic idea of paying to enter trappers atoll and if you die you lose your deposit, thats not very good though. 

 

The best system would involve the following:

 

- Tons of items and potential upgrades to choose from in-game

- Everything becomes unbound (with a few exceptions, quest items .. etc)

- Items drop on death (some exceptions)

- Other factors that I can't think of, off the top of my head due to my time writing this.

 

Edit:

 

Trappers atoll risk/reward

 

As stated in a previous thread you should be able to gain the best exp/hr or resource gain/hr in this open world pvp area. You are exchanging the potential loss of materials (or whatever the penalty will be) when dieing for the extra exp gain or resource gain.

 

Consider taking time to expand the map, I mean if you really don't have the time right now keep it how it is and leave a notice "under construction". If you want this place to be active (which it is potentially one of the best features of this game)  then it needs to be huge with lots to offer to all levels of all players. In turn it needs to be rewarding for players who venture in with their best items to kill those who are just trying to get their professions up or gather some resources. 

Edited by Neon, 03 June 2014 - 13:00.

[xXxMomoxXx]

Maybe drop some Elixirs / Draft / Food in boss?

But more buffs than normal foods , SPECIAL SORC FOOD/POT !

 

@What we'd love to hear are your ideas about what kind of loot you'd like to see dropping from the Plasma Lord. At the moment we're thinking of a mixture of potions, vanity and gear. But we're always open to more suggestions.

 

Ah I mean Atoll Boss

Edited by MomoY, 03 June 2014 - 13:03.

[sdcrichy]

threat for tanks.  

 

  if you fix the impale and cry talents then maybe make a higher lvl talent with more threat might work. if you make more threat with the lower end talents then that's still helping the templer/healer builds even more and kill the full templers off.

[Kinfa1987]

I'm glad that you remove Despair tread generation as it's not templar thing tho...
- Templars dont need anything improved or nerfed as they are good as long you do good build....

- No Cooldown's time reducing is needed to - as you can use haste from warrior build, Melee in Atributte points and Haste wepons (potion to)
- If you cycle your skils corectly u will not loose arggo at any time
    - Taunt, Cry, Impale and Emphtay are enough for Templars to be able to Tank
  
So HCS you did good removing Despair tread same as makeing Ignite skill not generating tread unless the is some points in Sorcery...

New WB is good and i like the Vanity droping idea, You should consider Emotes to

Good job HCS

[xpwaste]

New WB is good and i like the Vanity droping idea, You should consider Emotes to

Good job HCS

Vanity and emotes are micro transaction bought thing, that help the game run.

They should not add such things as drops. We already have 3-4 emotes for free, if you want more roleplay, go buy that stuff!

 

And this comes from a f2p player, just so you know.

[Alteration]

I'm glad that you remove Despair tread generation as it's not templar thing tho...
- Templars dont need anything improved or nerfed as they are good as long you do good build....

- No Cooldown's time reducing is needed to - as you can use haste from warrior build, Melee in Atributte points and Haste wepons (potion to)
- If you cycle your skils corectly u will not loose arggo at any time
    - Taunt, Cry, Impale and Emphtay are enough for Templars to be able to Tank
  
So HCS you did good removing Despair tread same as makeing Ignite skill not generating tread unless the is some points in Sorcery...
 

But Kinfa,

 

1. You do lose aggro (against warsins and prophets in ASV)

2. And with 13 into warrior just for the haste, you're templar build is unable to tank more than 1 mob group at a time (or rather, you can't pull more than 1 mob group at a time because you have no defensive buffs)

Edited by Alteration, 03 June 2014 - 13:02.

[Kinfa1987]

Imagine Tank go stand in front of 20 mobs cast a skill and dance the whole time...

_ where is the fun of that ?
_ Best thing is when u cast Tremor, Impale, Emphaty and cry and then using damage abilities while wateing for cry CD and just watching team HP and expecting that no one die before you cast Cry again,  then healer must CC to heal team to not just spaming Dogma to Tank, Rangers pull arggo with high tread abilities and must run to tank so he can take arggo again.

Well that makes dungen interesting not just spaming heals and spaming Tank abilities all the time without any risk..

More risk in dungon make dungon more interesting to play.
Make it to easy and all fun is gone.

_ This is just mine opinion on playing a game

[HappyDays]

Kinfa you epic troll.  Also I will go pick out a nice team for you to tank if you wish and let you run arg. let's see how smug you are then

Edited by HappyDays, 03 June 2014 - 13:24.

[Kinfa1987]

I'm not warrior im still Tank

[HappyDays]

So you up for it. a run in arg with a high dps crew . also how many times I am curious have you ran asv and arg ?