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#1 Alphamale

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 20:31

Hello,

 

 

I've been trying out alot of diffrent dungeon setups and for every dungeon I come to same conclusion...

Warriors are by far the best dps followed by 2 ranger and 1 warrior group as that way you have great aoe and decent single target damage... I personally don't mind running with mages or assassins. But It kinda pisses me of that in every point of view they're worthless compared to Rangers/warriors.

 

Every tank who ran a significant amount of RG/BT/ARG/ASV will aggree with me when i say that every warrior in the team makes the run faster... We came to a point where the massive single target damage an assassin generates no longer weights upto the AOE dps of Rangers but mainly warriors...

 

Atm bringing a mage is slowing your runs down with a few mins because their AOE is nearly to unexisting 'again compared to warriors'. Why don't you make the single target damage of sins 20% higher? (The abilities but let bleeds no longer ignore armor, this way they don't become even more OP in pvpp and they're able to add upto some dungeons. Because atm there is no advantage to bringing an assassin or a mage.

 

Also why not improve the dragon breath of mages? It's not like it's a real pvp spell... Atm I think it's safe to say that Johndaymon's dps as a mage is a beast and therefor i see him as probly the best pve mage... Why would the best pve mage do less aoe then any mediocre ranger? 

 

Btw atm the impale boost helps alot in dungeons with keeping aggro (but tank still has room for improvement before becoming op)

 

Why not add a bit of love to the 2 previously named classes? Atm assassins and mages have no benefits for dungeon runs, which is why they're often left out of dungeon runs... A warrior/ranger completes his set alot faster than assassins/mages because they just don't get asked for dungeons as often.

 

 

And don't nerf warriors or rangers as that'll piss them off, And nerfing is never a solution.

 

 

EDIT: Maybe some ideas from mages/sins self? As they'll have a better idea of what they're lacking/needing.


Edited by Alphamale, 20 June 2014 - 20:34.

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#2 HuMoR

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 21:07

I pointed this out before,Mages have become the least played class in the game for end content even more templars then mages. The class lacks in aoe and single target. 

By general AOE they are ranked 4th in AOe dmg 
By single target DPS they are ranked 4th also. Even a single target dps built tank does more damage.


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#3 Susej

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 21:37

Yep mage needs a bit of love 

 

Maybe simply increasing incinerate powwer woudl be good.

 

Well played is a awesome pvpclass, but in pvp mage can get easily kicked as a 8 secs jolt can simply kill.

 

 

So resuming mage gets less aoe, less armor, less range then a ranger, and less single target n pvp ignite and boiling bllood are very good but BB as a huge casting time, and to make scald talent usefull make it make bb last 2/4 secs longer(maybe 650% seems alot right) , and for some reason it has a armor check, why would it bleeds dont?

 

Dragonbreath could easily b 8 secs.

 

In pve a mage when killing mobs(big pulls) needs to starlight-miasma-erupt-dragonbreath-blizzard... and he will only see db again is 45ish secs with 3 full geared warriors no group of mobs survives 45 seconds why should not a mage do the same and the preparation to kill starlight has a huge casting time as well, make it a +50% instead of 30 with that cast time

 

finnally fissure talent is a bit underwhelming.

 

I am not a mage but mages need  abit of love.


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#4 Kijjum

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 21:48

I disagree, mage imo has good dps, and if i'm wrong they make up for it with the ability to heal.



#5 ernzor

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 21:50

assassin here reporting in.

 

We (sins) have had alot of nerfs so please do not start nerfing other classes as I dont really want them to go through that.

 

At the moment sins do have the best single target DPS with their bleeds/DoT taken into consideration, but like alpha said, for quick dungeon runs, the majority of the time is spent grinding through the mobs so a group of strong aoe is much preferred.

 

Warsins can also get a huge amount of DPS now (fully geared 45s hitting 2k) so that an assassins bleeds are barely even missed during boss fights.

 

Not all sins spec into Shock Trauma even though it is our most valuable group talent (also good for solo play and pvp too but thats beside the point) it can make us desirable in a small way as 2 warriors/warsins can then do extra damage, but the 3rd aoe dps would be better.

 

To make sins more valuable to a team I would do the following.

 

Give us slightly more AoE. Give us a talent (deep in tree) to increase our bloodbath from 3 targets to all in range. Dont make us a too strong AoE class like warrior but give us something useful to help out in all those grinding moments during dungeons.

 

Do your "quality of life" changes you mentioned. Currently a heavy armor sin is much better. You guys created medium sin armor but not many people wear it becuase of the disadvantage. Why not give med armor sins something that makes them desirable for team play. Something like a damage boost would be nice, but to make us desirable that would have to be quite large. A dodge bonus would be nice too and has been discussed previously.

 

To make us more desirable in a group setting I think giving us a bleed bonus (more lacerated stacks) to build up on bosses would be a good idea. So if the talent was a 3 point talent maybe an extra 1/3 point in skill do 3/5 stacks of lacerated. This would only really affect boss fights as it will take a while to build up those bleeds. Also in pvp the only thing alive after 5 stacks (current limit) is an unkillable heal/tank so giving us a weapon to kill them might be a good idea too.

 

So, a dodge bonus, DPS bonus or bleed bonus through med armor could all be good, depends which way you want to go there. Dodge for survivablility, DPS for more damage (similar to heavy armor currently) or more bleeds for more desirability in boss fights, and a solution to heal/tanks in pvp... Or a combination of all 3 :) lol

 

Typed more but it got lost on a page refresh to see responses before mine... Will type it out again sometime soon...


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#6 ernzor

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 21:52

I disagree, mage imo has good dps, and if i'm wrong they make up for it with the ability to heal.

Agreed, a mages off heal is a good thing to have in a tough situation. But as it stands, a tank who knows his healer can heal will pick up 3 warriors/warsins first, then rangers then settle for sins/mages, lol


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#7 HuMoR

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 22:32

From someone who has played a mage and prophet I can tell you...a prophet can deal more dps then a mage at the moment,and this should never be the case ever. when a offensive class falls  behind a support class..there is bad balance. Mage classes are a very bad class from pve stand point,as stated for pvp they are decent-good (mostly due to plasma) off heals in pvp are a joke for a mage and in pve their off heals arent needed as groups have prophets...so that cant truly be taken into consideration. A pure dps templar can deal more single target damage then a mage with double almost triple the survivability..and mages are i'd say at the bottom of the spectrum of everything as of right now. (people can feel free to disagree but the population speaks for itself when the support classes that are undesired are even more popular then a class highly desirable just never played.)

1) bump the incin dmg up to about 175%
2) reduce the dragon breath cd to at minimal about....45 seconds just to make them moderatly close to a ranger but not close to a warrior.
3)make frostbite a range cast,not close cast(this will also help future content such as fulmination)


Edited by HuMoR, 20 June 2014 - 22:36.

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#8 Susej

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 23:17

assassin here reporting in.

 

Wouldnt you also like spires to be more usefull again?

 

 

1) bump the incin dmg up to about 175%
2) reduce the dragon breath cd to at minimal about....45 seconds just to make them moderatly close to a ranger but not close to a warrior.
3)make frostbite a range cast,not close cast(this will also help future content such as fulmination)

1) maybe add to incinerate 15%/30% dps to the talent Blazing Embers, as well as the dot that gets affected by armor

 

2) Or make DB last 1/2 secs longer or make talent apocalipse add spell damage to both ignite and DB.

 

3) frostbite being ranged would actually be toooo overpowered that is the best thing a ranger has for PVP this would make mage a bit to easy to play in PVP.

 

 

 

I disagree, mage imo has good dps, and if i'm wrong they make up for it with the ability to heal.

Cauterize has 60secs cooldown they wear light armor and have not much hp

 

healing in a pve point of view to the mage bears disavantages as he will steal aggro of the tank if its deep into the fight good otherwise without emp he can die. mostly a mage can cauterize himself if he gets in a aoe( he is a ranged unit so does not happen much) or he gets hit by another mage/ranger, or healing another dps or the healer himself, but healers have to be able to heal please refer to the 12 commandment "thy dps shall avoid aggro"

http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65500


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#9 ernzor

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 01:09

Wouldnt you also like spires to be more usefull again?

Well that is another topic entirely, this topci I thought was going into making sins/mages more group desirable. Spires in and of itself is pretty useless in group settings since every group setup is a stationary one and spires requires movement. You could say that you could use spires while tank is pulling movign targets, but then you just take control and die. Only time it is useful in group settings is with a boss that moves around but then not much.

 

However, that being said, I think we are at a good point with spires now after they last updated it. It is very useful for solo play and pvp and I wouldnt change the damage/time/CD on it at all. The only thing I would change on it is apply the Soul Fire HoH to spires damage like it was originally.

 

Back to topic.

 

I think down the line we could have some combo talents where a warrior and an assassin say could combine two talents cast almost simultaneously to do more dmg or something, sort of like how Shock Trauma works now, but build a few more specific ones into the game for classes to work together with. That way if you build a full warrior team you wouldnt get these benefits, but building teams with combos of ranger/sin warrior/sin sin/mage warrior/ranger ranger/mage etc combo attacks could be very useful and beneficial to a good team setup.


Edited by ernzor, 21 June 2014 - 01:10.

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#10 HuMoR

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 01:30

Wouldnt you also like spires to be more usefull again?

 

 

1) maybe add to incinerate 15%/30% dps to the talent Blazing Embers, as well as the dot that gets affected by armor

 

2) Or make DB last 1/2 secs longer or make talent apocalipse add spell damage to both ignite and DB.

 

3) frostbite being ranged would actually be toooo overpowered that is the best thing a ranger has for PVP this would make mage a bit to easy to play in PVP.

 

 

 

Cauterize has 60secs cooldown they wear light armor and have not much hp

 

healing in a pve point of view to the mage bears disavantages as he will steal aggro of the tank if its deep into the fight good otherwise without emp he can die. mostly a mage can cauterize himself if he gets in a aoe( he is a ranged unit so does not happen much) or he gets hit by another mage/ranger, or healing another dps or the healer himself, but healers have to be able to heal please refer to the 12 commandment "thy dps shall avoid aggro"

http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65500

the extra from blazing embers seems good
however the 1 or 2 extra hits from db lasting is a bit useless.

I don't think frostbite being a ranged thing is too op...as it puts them at par with rangers and semi close to warriors,same effect as creeping vines. 
Ranger with decent armor and a shield with more survivability can have a ranged stun/snare
But too op if a mage with long cooldowns with low armor and survivability and less instant casts..Idk lol. and mages have very few things to use also...erupt,plasma,incin,basic(rarely)ignite,BB(rarely)redemption/  Evenom,hemo,blood fang,black fang,creeping vines,crystal blast,storm,basic,righteous defense,redemption,vindicate.

Saying DB gets used often would be a bit ridiculous as the attack is a cone and can easily be avoided....and storm is a entire area that hits more actual ground zone then db.


Edited by HuMoR, 21 June 2014 - 01:34.

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#11 xpwaste

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:06

And when i said assassins/tanks/prophets needed aoe abilities you all put the "there be limitation for being one class it's advantages and disadvantages" to my face.

 

http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65368


Edited by xpwaste, 21 June 2014 - 05:07.

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#12 Susej

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:12

And when i said assassins/tanks/prophets needed aoe abilities you all put the "there be limitation for being one class it's advantages and disadvantages" to my face.

 

http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65368

I did not and i gave my suggestion as well.


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#13 HuMoR

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:32

And when i said assassins/tanks/prophets needed aoe abilities you all put the "there be limitation for being one class it's advantages and disadvantages" to my face.

 

http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65368

lol X D i did no such thing.


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#14 Irradiated

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 14:47

(strictly from PvE viewpoint)

Ideally, each class tree has its own specialty.

templar/prophet, obvious

warrior, AOE

assassin, single target especially useful against bosses (like that extra bleed idea above)

ranger, mixed.  Not quite the AOE of warrior or single target of assassin, but close in both

mage, utility.  Respectable dps with extra heals and short term ~tanking~.

 

This requires a major overhaul of the mage talents.  Especially a deep talent that improves plasma shield and armor when in groups.  They could save a team from wiping when mistakes happen (and they do happen even in strong groups).  But they especially come into their own when (if?) we see 10-person raids and/or more complex instances where off-heals/tanking offers a larger contribution.  In this case, the mage could easily become the most sought after class (after tank and prophet, of course).


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#15 HuMoR

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 15:08

Mages need a giant overhaul,the entire class doesn't even match the class description anymore tbh.


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#16 xpwaste

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 04:57

I did not and i gave my suggestion as well.

 

lol X D i did no such thing.

was referring to the people who are game experts and said that. :)


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#17 xpwaste

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 04:58

My point is.

 

Every class should be able to go in 2 ways.

1. Single target DPS

2. Multiple target DPS.

 

when every class can be made in both ways equally, then all can go and mix match them to get the perfect combination of both worlds.


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#18 EJK

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 10:48

Do not buff incinerate directly, as newbies won't use essence then, like someone said, please put the buff on a talent instead.

IMO blizzard is one of the most useless abilities a mage got. When I quest and got 3 mobs at same level as I am, I use plasma shield and blizzard, which results in all mobs being at 2/3 of their life, if I use plasma shield and essence I can kill 2 of them in the same time. 

This might not be accurate, but still, I think blizzard is useless. 

I usually don't use overload, because it hits on too many targets, who easily kills me.

Envenom hits same amount as BB? and Envenom is instant cast! 

I'm not a expert in talents and combat at all, but I have to use cautherize way too often as a mage. 

Mage is usually meant for killing meleers, which means, mages should have high dps, but low health?

Shouldn't mage be a class with high dps, but low armor, low health, high mana costs and long channel times? 

 

The opinion of a lvl 19 glass-cannon mage.

 

Edit: For the class combos, I recommend BB to hit higher if bleeds active.


Edited by EJK, 22 June 2014 - 10:50.

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