16 replies to this topic

[Tankh]

I'm not sure if this should be posted here or somewhere else but here goes... I am a healer. Have been for a few days and I love it. The problem is the aggro/threat... It's quite impossible for me. I do a dungeon, I let the tanker aggro, I heal the tanker and boom, mobs come right at me. All the time. I actually have repair costs equal to a tanker. Am I just a noob or is this common? Sometimes I just stand there, the tank goes first, passes the mobs and the mobs come straight to me regardless (even if I don't cast anything). Even if I am kind of far. I have the pacifist skill (-25% threat) and it doesn't help much.

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited by Surya, 23 June 2014 - 20:12.

[awollsd]

in all games healing generates a lot of threat it's part of the healers job to manage that threat.

 

I personaly prefer radiance with it I can manipulate threat a lot easier.  tank using empathy on me I can use my highest threat skills then once it's gone can keep HoT's up (like bene, ancestral spirit) and go on to help dps (erupt, blizzard) dropping caulterize if anyone gets below 50% or crimson if the group gets below 70%

 

and with that I can watch the mobs and work on pulling agro if it's an emergency and then pop radiance to throw them back at tank. this baught the team a couple seconds which should be plenty.

 

 

others who don't like to be so interactive opt for the other prophet talent that simply reduces all threat they generate per cast  while yet others use both.

 

 

in the end just choose which style you prefer and watch your casts. if you know something generates a lot of threat don't spam it   I actualy think healer threat generation is one thing they do have about perfect.

[ComradeLewis]

Get Radiance. Whenever you see the mobs all turn on you, hit Radiance, and run through the tank to the other side so that he can re-aggro them.

 

Also, don't cast Rejuvinate or Redemption before the tank starts pulling mobs, that will make the mobs auto aggro you instead. Although it's obvious enough, wait until the tank uses his first aggro skill before healing him.

 

I do get aggro from time to time, but without the above mistakes and knowing when to use Radiance, you should not run into problems, as long as the tank is keeping aggro.

[Echelon]

Is your tank using empathy? It is a vital tool for keeping threat off of healer. Also as awol and comrade has mentioned Radiance is very good to get mobs off you and you can also use frostbite to hold them in place while you run. If you still having problems, ask for smaller pulls and work at it (A little practice and you'll get the hang of it). Being a prophet is a very enjoyable and rewarding class.

[Doja]

The tank-healer relationship is very important in dungeon runs.  Based on your comments and knowing your level, its very likely that your tanker is still rather inexperienced.  If he doesn't have or isn't using the proper skills, the mobs will leave him in a hurry and will go to the highest threat generator, which can very easily be the healer.

 

Every tip given above is correct.  Based on your description it sounds like they leave him the second you start healing, which means he hasn't generated very much threat (and indicates he doesn't use empathy).  In general, a solid order for a tank is: (1) lure the mobs by walking first; (2) cast tremor which stuns them; (3) cast empathy on the healer; (4) use impale [note: in my experience number 3 and 4 are often interchangeable].  If he isn't using a method like that you should ask him to.  During that phase the rest of the party should basically be waiting.  You especially, as the healer, need to try and wait until he uses empathy on you before you start casting.

 

At your level its very likely he doesn't have inciting cry to lure back the mobs if they leave him, so its imperative he doesn't pull too large of groups.  If the group is too large (and hence the battle too long) he will stop producing aggro from empathy when it wears off (it has a long cool down) and may have difficulty regaining control.

Edited by Doja, 24 June 2014 - 03:25.

[awollsd]

I wouldn't change the order of empathy/impale....  the reason being healer starts casting as soon as tremor is cast. so starts generating threat immediately.  empathy being 1.5 seconds late (general cooldown and skill animation/cast time) that can get the healer/party into serious trouble. especialy if tank don't have IC.  even more especialy if the healer is like me and starts his casts as soon as he see's the tank start tremor animation.

 

infact it's possible and often times better if tank has healer targeted while gathering mobs, as soon as gets amount he wants to fight gathered pop empathy and then tremor that allows tank to pre target the healer so he don't have to fumble trying to target during combat. just healer needs make sure to watch and start casting highest threat generators as soon as he see's empathy as it's the tanks greatest threat generator.

[Doja]

I wouldn't change the order of empathy/impale....  the reason being healer starts casting as soon as tremor is cast. so starts generating threat immediately.  empathy being 1.5 seconds late (general cooldown and skill animation/cast time) that can get the healer/party into serious trouble. especialy if tank don't have IC.  even more especialy if the healer is like me and starts his casts as soon as he see's the tank start tremor animation.

 

That's a good point awol and that's usually the order I do it (which is why I listed in in that order to begin with).  But then this goes back to the healer/tanker being in sync.  The healer doesn't have to start casting upon tremor if the tank is taking little damage from the mobs.  Outside of empathy, impale is the primary threat generator.  Therefore, to cast impale first allows it to be cast again sooner.  The tank will still get 20 seconds worth of threat from empathy.  If he doesn't need the heals right away, it seems he can generate maximum threat by casting impale first so he can cast it again sooner.  This seems to work well in TR, but then again, TR is easy for me to tank.  In a level 45 dungeon I always go empathy before impale because those mobs hurt and I need those heals! 

[Alteration]

If you don't get emp... well just don't heal him.  That will teach him to emp you next time

 

Seriously though, if you have not been emped yet, just use revitalize, that will rarely pull threat off tremor/impale, even if you spam it continuously.  It does decent heals, enough to keep your tank up (full geared, with heal talents, it hits 5k+ crits heals), and it does a lot less threat than heal over times (rejuvenate/redemption with deliverance/dogma) and aoe heals (CC/dark prayer/benediction).  Then follow up with cauterize after you get emped (if needed).  If there really is no choice but to cauterize before emp, immediately follow with redemption on yourself and snowfall.  If tank still cannot pull threat by this time, then probably it's a wipe =/

 

If even a single monster starts attacking you, cast radiance.  It's also a good idea to keep casting radiance every time the skill is up, it puts you lower and lower on the threat list and can save you if tank loses aggro in long fights (especially when the boss stuns/sleeps your tank often).  

Edited by Alteration, 24 June 2014 - 04:27.

[awollsd]

aye for a new healer popping radiance over and over would be ok or if your a lazy healer haha..  but I wouldn't suggest it as I said above good healers are great at threat management and can use their threat to save the party that's why I don't get or ever really suggest getting pacify (that's the passive threat reduction right?)

[Alteration]

aye for a new healer popping radiance over and over would be ok or if your a lazy healer haha..  but I wouldn't suggest it as I said above good healers are great at threat management and can use their threat to save the party that's why I don't get or ever really suggest getting pacify (that's the passive threat reduction right?)

Radiance lowers your total threat, it doesn't affect the threat of newly cast skills.  You can pop radiance in the middle of empathy, and your next CC will still deal full aggro (or at least that's how I understood the description anyway).  That's why it is so much better than pacify.  You can freely manipulate your threat both to help tank out, and to lower yours below dps' even.  

[awollsd]

that is correct but what i was meaning is i like to keeg my threat just at the threshold of pulling agro so if tank/other members do get into trouble i can easily pull agro myself and buy the tank a few seconds to recoup.  if spamming radiance then my total threat would be too low to do this   and i'm sure i'm not the only healer that does this after all healers are the best suited for it.

[Alteration]

I see what you mean.  How gallant of you, to protect dps like that  Myself, I believe keeping myself alive is top priority haha.  In the first place, the reason I went healer was because it was the cheapest class to play in terms of repair ^^  But also because if a dps die, they can just resurrect him.  But if a healer dies, it's a high chance of wipe.  

 

From what I see, most healers just use radiance once per fight.  And auto-die if they ever pull aggro.  But then, that is with ASV or RG/BT with tanks who pull 4 groups at a time.  Been a long time since I ran TR or lower.  TR or lower, or RG/BT with just 1 or maybe 2 mob group pulls, what you said is definitely possible.  With snowfall, you can temporarily tank.  

[Susej]

BRO 

 

SO ppl talk a lot so resuming

 

1 - unless youre playing with a hybrid tank dont heal much if you dont have EMPATHY ON depending on your build cast red/reju(i know many dont like reju but i do as it gives me freddom to dps as well) some tanks like to do emp later some like to do earlier, if you dont have emp waaaaait until you can for a good cauterize by  then a tank should already have the mobs a bit more secured,

 

2 - depending on tanks( the ones that waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait alot to cast emp) i sometimes start dpsing before healing or cast snowstorm and ancestral spirit ( depending on the difficulty of the dungeon). or ancestral and force of nature and do damage

 

3- Snowstorm, Ancestral spirit and force of nature cause ZERO treat, if tanks have emp in their rotation for later(this is quite often though imo i would tremor impale and emp with every pull) just drop spirit and cast either snow or force this will give  extra durability to the tank and time to cast emp on you( though you will have to be at least level 36 to have snow)

 

4- Radiance is the best spell you have in dungeons tank has a long cd on emp and depending on tank everytime you heal you generate buckloads of treat, so you know your tank cd is 40-60 seconds(example) time so account to that and cast radiance after 20 seconds(example)  of emp ending if you have been healing a lot.

 

5-Blind causes very little treat and should be in any healer rotation(some might disagree)

 

6-Cause damage ok in this i know quite alot of healers that disagree but the more you damage the less time mobs will be alive and less youll need to heal.( in my case fully buffed my build allows +1600 dps wich aint bad  for a prophet if you account for my 51%(56% with obe) crit youll still cause less damage then a dps so youre free of being that targeted while dpsing)

 

EDIT:7- if dpss are noobs and attack before tank starts to gather aggro LET THEM DIE cause if you heal them you are next.

 

EDIT: 8- ask dps to form a chain dont go around running to try and chain them as you might get toppled/stunned by aoe make them move their asses they already have the easiest job in a dungeon.(MAAAANY goooood dps out there do this as an instinct and i thank you all for that)

Edited by Susej, 24 June 2014 - 08:50.

[awollsd]

*curious* do you really like force of nature? i haven't tried it for a long long time but i remember not caring for it/not thinking it was worth the point for me.

[Susej]

*curious* do you really like force of nature? i haven't tried it for a long long time but i remember not caring for it/not thinking it was worth the point for me.

I kinda do when i cast force of nature i get op for 15 seconds not that is needed i only use it to dps, i cast spirit and then force of nature and the spirit can actually heal the tank for 15 sec like a level 45 healer(jk) and i just sit here dpsing.

 

I also use it when there is another healer in the party to make heals smother for them.

 

its usefull when tanks like to pull 3-5 groups or there are aoe mobs it can make pulls easier for 15 secs as a critical cc with force is quite enourmous on the first targets.

 

Its not a necessary talent for a prophet it can help, i am specced in al possible dps increased talents(purification/Master of the Arcane) so i like to use that dps redemption/rejuvenate/spirit/benediction help me have my freedom and with force that freedom is increased fo 15secs( i wish it lasted 30 seconds )

 

EDIT: I didnt like the tooltip but i wanted to test it and since then i never removed it,  it can also help in PVP since healz in pvp get nerfed, for 15 secs you get to heal alot more

 

EDIT2: Also good for pvp when i see a red dot in ta coming after me i cast spirit/FN/(by here i am stunned and silenced) red/reju and start trying to survive/kill

 

Edit3: its stackable so if by any reason it would be necessary 2 healers would have the greatest heal with 2 fn 

Edited by Susej, 24 June 2014 - 18:17.

[awollsd]

ah, see i cant bene, spirit, erupt, blizzard blizzard, CC, DP, CC  then repeat. not needing etra heal. always thought the extra heal would make me pull more and i like to minimize my use of radiance  the general cooldown slows my other

[Cult]

I usually use FoN as an emergency thing. Like if warriors get struck in mobs aoe while doing their dps talents, or with the octopus and lvl 34 undergeared dps at to3. Or when running with lower experienced groups.. Or insane big pulls when crit cc isnt enough.

In pvp it helps alot. And with my favorite tank, I use it the same way as susej does.

Dont know where to put that point in any other talent, Except dps increasing talents from mage tree..

I never really use radiance, Except if a dps makes an mistake..Like attacking before tank. I could Let them die, but usually Fn-dp-radiance and the tank takes it from me.

Edited by Cult, 25 June 2014 - 14:43.