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Is eldevin really a "class-less" game?


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#1 xpwaste

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 14:34

To think about it, it really isn't classless game.

If your ranger, you are stuck to range and can't melee.

If your warrior you can not range only melee.

You know the basic "class" isn't class less.

 

Though you can use more than one talent tree to increase the output of your main class i.e. melee/ranged/tank/heal. But that doesn't mean it is class less, your still stuck with your class, just have options to make it better. If an assassin puts points into melee tree just to increase his DPS or utility he isn't becoming hybrid, or using more than one class. He is there just stuck as melee.

Though if he could combine melee with range that would a pure hybrid/classless.

 

What are your thought guys?


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#2 HuMoR

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 15:47

there are ways to make actual hybrids and they do exist X D sinranger is an example warmage is an example. it can be done and is done. I wouldn't exactly say this is a class-less game though either..they have some freedom...but not nearly enough to define it as classless.


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#3 huhbum

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 16:03

The game is classless in the sense that all skills and talents are available to each character.

 

What defines a 'class' in Eldevin is the name of each talent trees, and the developers/community sticking to those talent tree names to define 'classes' as particular character archetypes. This is where the 'pure class' versus 'hybrid class' discussion comes from: pre-existing ideas of how game mechanics should be organized, versus what can actually be accomplished in the game.

 

So to answer the question: Yes, there are classes in Eldevin, because the community decided there would be. However, there are also classless characters in Eldevin, because the game mechanics make it possible to achieve this.



#4 HuMoR

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 17:03

The game is classless in the sense that all skills and talents are available to each character.

 

What defines a 'class' in Eldevin is the name of each talent trees, and the developers/community sticking to those talent tree names to define 'classes' as particular character archetypes. This is where the 'pure class' versus 'hybrid class' discussion comes from: pre-existing ideas of how game mechanics should be organized, versus what can actually be accomplished in the game.

 

So to answer the question: Yes, there are classes in Eldevin, because the community decided there would be. However, there are also classless characters in Eldevin, because the game mechanics make it possible to achieve this.

The way the game is built is what forces that by the community.

A actual classless game would result in general blending for highest purpose,throwing 2 moves to a similar armored class effect into a different tree doesn't actually make it classless. you are VERY limited in means of the hybrids you can make...as they intentionally crafted their talent trees as such. The hybrids are OP by their own means resulting in the general idea that hybriding is the way to go to hide the limiting factor. Any actual classless MMO you could make a true blend of seperate trees without a limit as to what you could choose to be effective. 

A classless MMORPG wouldnt have these very strict means,while all are accessible by each,you are forced into individuals with minimal in a different for effectiveness to match the games required speed runs.


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#5 Neofito

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 18:15

We have freedom in order to learn any skill from any class, but Eldevin isn't a classless game at all. I will try to be brief in the explanation (disclaimer: all this are jus theories, since I haven't played yet [waiting for hardware support] ).

  • Several talents are based on the kind of armor you equip
  • Each armor type have his bonuses defined for an specific class
  • Requeriments in order to equip an armor/weapons are just your level .
  • The damage done is totally based in the points invested in your main attribute (melee/ranger/sorcery)

For all this the game mechanics forces you to be an specific class with maybe certain support skills from other classes but with not a real impact in your build.

 

On the other hand, not even all the possible combinations are allowed by the design of the game (Basing on the previous affirmation)

  • Some are decent combinations (warrior/sin, sin/warrior, templar/warrior, warrior/templar, mage/prophet, prophet/mage)
  • Some have certain talents interaction, that looks great at a first glance, but I belive that's all: (ranger/sin)
  • The rest, well can be mixed but.........

Under my point of view how could be solved

  • No talents should have armor interactions
  • Requeriments in order to equip an item should be based in player stats (maybe learned skills/talents), no the player level.
  • As has be done with weapons at the moment also armors should have mixed stats. the mixed stats items would have mixed requeriments in order to be equiped.
  • And under my point of view the most important: damage done by skills (Efficiency) not only increased by the player stats(melee, ranger and sorcery) but also by use (the most you use a class skills tree the most damage you do with this skills. This would mean do different skills trees for warriors and sins and also for mages and prophets). Going a bit deeper it could be done even with speciffic skills (at least the high end ones)

Edited by Neofito, 24 July 2014 - 18:15.

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#6 HuMoR

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 18:33

 

We have freedom in order to learn any skill from any class, but Eldevin isn't a classless game at all. I will try to be brief in the explanation (disclaimer: all this are jus theories, since I haven't played yet [waiting for hardware support] ).

  • Several talents are based on the kind of armor you equip
  • Each armor type have his bonuses defined for an specific class
  • Requeriments in order to equip an armor/weapons are just your level .
  • The damage done is totally based in the points invested in your main attribute (melee/ranger/sorcery)

For all this the game mechanics forces you to be an specific class with maybe certain support skills from other classes but with not a real impact in your build.

 

On the other hand, not even all the possible combinations are allowed by the design of the game (Basing on the previous affirmation)

  • Some are decent combinations (warrior/sin, sin/warrior, templar/warrior, warrior/templar, mage/prophet, prophet/mage)
  • Some have certain talents interaction, that looks great at a first glance, but I belive that's all: (ranger/sin)
  • The rest, well can be mixed but.........

Under my point of view how could be solved

  • No talents should have armor interactions
  • Requeriments in order to equip an item should be based in player stats (maybe learned skills/talents), no the player level.
  • As has be done with weapons at the moment also armors should have mixed stats. the mixed stats items would have mixed requeriments in order to be equiped.
  • And under my point of view the most important: damage done by skills (Efficiency) not only increased by the player stats(melee, ranger and sorcery) but also by use (the most you use a class skills tree the most damage you do with this skills. This would mean do different skills trees for warriors and sins and also for mages and prophets). Going a bit deeper it could be done even with speciffic skills (at least the high end ones)

 

yeah..i was gonna get back and say all that but had to go,so posted a brief general response to why it isnt really classless.


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#7 Tsali

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 18:59

This isn't a classless game!  I play it and I got lots of class!  Check out the hat!  How can you say I ain't classy?


Edited by Tsali, 24 July 2014 - 19:15.


#8 xpwaste

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:42

It is not classless.An medium Armour guy can't be tank.a heavy Armour guy can't b prophet. Your bound the the limitations of your main class. And with the current system people tend to confuse between what are hybrids and what are pure. I would like that these limitations are either removed or the game is made completely a class restricted game. Now many of you won't agree with me on the "strict class restricted thing" But it would solve a huge balancing problems that is being cuased due to the current system. 

OR remove the limitations that exist now. It is not classless game. You are bound to a main class. What neofito said is a perfect explanation of my discussion. Would love to know how the devs feel about the current system though and if there are/is going to be some work done on the current system. Or they like it as it is and are going to leave it that way.


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#9 ernzor

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:59

It is not classless.An medium Armour guy can't be tank.a heavy Armour guy can't b prophet.

A heavy armor guy can be a sin though... Thats just wrong... Yuck


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#10 Rolantis

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:07

Me and Echelon was discussing this when the servers went down.  The only hybrid class is probably the Prophet/Tank.  The rest are just a boost to their main class.  Such as Sin/Warrior uses heavy for more attack power.  Ranger/Sin more ranged power from dual-wielding.   Oh yeah I've seen a medium armor tank his/her name is Medi3vil.


Edited by Rolantis, 25 July 2014 - 05:16.


#11 gui

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:50

It's not classless at all. They give you that illusion but if you try anything like it you'll end up with a worse build 99% of the time. 



#12 Narciss

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:15

It is not classless.An medium Armour guy can't be tank.a heavy

 

A heavy armor guy can be a sin though... Thats just wrong... Yuck

 

And medium armor guy can actually be a tank

 

Me and Echelon was discussing this when the servers went down.  The only hybrid class is probably the Prophet/Tank.  The rest are just a boost to their main class.  Such as Sin/Warrior uses heavy for more attack power.  Ranger/Sin more ranged power from dual-wielding.   Oh yeah I've seen a medium armor tank his/her name is Medi3vil.

 

Ranger tank is a viable build, no one take seriously that direction as of now. Relatively easy if he use heavy armor. However if that build use medium-ranged armor one, he/she needs a high-end++ armory for asv.


Edited by Narciss, 25 July 2014 - 12:22.


#13 HuMoR

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:23

And medium armor guy can actually be a tank

if you can really call it a tank..med armored tank lacks defense,lacks aggro gains,lacks dps,lacks in pull,lacks in life,armor etc...no gains from this just loss. 

You are very limited within what you can do and what is said to be able to be done. A classless MMO you wouldn't suffer from giant boundaries that limit your fighting style to your armor style.


Edited by HuMoR, 25 July 2014 - 12:26.

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#14 Narciss

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:31

if you can really call i a tank..med armored tank lacks defense,lacks aggro gains,lacks dps,lacks in pull,lacks in life,armor etc...no gains from this just loss. 

You are very limited within what you can do and what is said to be able to be done. A classless MMO you wouldn't suffer from giant boundaries that limit your fighting style to your armor style.

 

He can have "high" crit and +12% haste build. For RG/BT, there shouldnt be any problem, if armor buff is active, as compared to normal tank he will lose only <6% defense (melee/range/sorc), more precisely around \approx 100 armor + 3x1% from stouthart. Once medium armor is buffed, this could be an interesting build.

 

Moreover, with an appropriate build, this tank can have around 40%++ haste (fully buffed), it signify that his active skill can be used more often. Normal tank without haste in weapon will have only around 20% haste max.


Edited by Narciss, 25 July 2014 - 12:45.


#15 HuMoR

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:54

He can have "high" crit and +12% haste build. For RG/BT, there shouldnt be any problem, if armor buff is active, as compared to normal tank he will lose only <6% defense (melee/range/sorc), more precisely around \approx 100 armor + 3x1% from stouthart. Once medium armor is buffed, this could be an interesting build.

 

Moreover, with an appropriate build, this tank can have around 40%++ haste (fully buffed), it signify that his active skill can be used more often. Normal tank without haste in weapon will have only around 20% haste max.

I healed for medi as a med armor tank X D even capped out you easily notice the difference,med armor tanks drop like flies. haste is irrelevant when they cant live long enough to use it. 


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#16 Narciss

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 13:04

I healed for medi as a med armor tank X D even capped out you easily notice the difference,med armor tanks drop like flies. haste is irrelevant when they cant live long enough to use it. 

 

Indeed, that 6% less defense (if buffed) made a noticeable difference right now.



#17 xpwaste

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 15:26

A heavy armor guy can be a sin though... Thats just wrong... Yuck

That's not wrong, it should be encouraged. He is just increasing the DPS boost. what's wrong is that The limitation comes on medium Armour that warrior tree need heavy Armour to get gains. That restricts you to go in warrior tree.

 

 

And as for other "hybrid" you guys are talking about , they are not viable at all. 

Only

1. war/sin

2. Mage/prophet

Are the viable builds and they are not even hybrids as people are using them for the sole purpose of doing one thing[either dps or healing or pvp survivability.]


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#18 Brenzlo Xate

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 17:41

Well I do think that it's not a class-less game. However it does provide more flexibility in building your character, though I'm new to the game I've played a lot of other mmorpg's before Eldevin. I haven't gone through the process of experimenting with builds yet as I've only been putting points in my Sorcery attribute ever since I began, and with the new hybrid gears it broadens character building further IMO.  :unsure:


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#19 xpwaste

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 19:20

Well I do think that it's not a class-less game. However it does provide more flexibility in building your character, though I'm new to the game I've played a lot of other mmorpg's before Eldevin. I haven't gone through the process of experimenting with builds yet as I've only been putting points in my Sorcery attribute ever since I began, and with the new hybrid gears it broadens character building further IMO.  :unsure:

Only weapons have been hybridized [lol didn't think that was even a word!] and they are going to be nerfed soon.

No matter what you won't see a guy tank in light armour.

or a guy healing in heavy armour. You just can't. Your stuck to your main class.

 

I do not suggest you stop playing Eldevin, but class less examples are:

rift.

or tera.. i think tera has that too i might be wrong?


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#20 Dasan

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 21:27

 

No matter what you won't see a guy tank in light armour.

 

Tank in light armor works good actually i tested it and it wasnt lacking in defense.




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