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Need VS Greed


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#21 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:23

I think you guys are missing the point I am trying to make. I don't think it is okay to roll need on every single piece of loot that drops. What I am saying is roll need on the loot that will improve your character's stats or attributes from what they are currently wearing.

 

There is absolutely nothing flawed about a system that has a need function to allow you to NEED on bound set items or items which are for your character specific. If everyone needs on everything, then this would not happen and that my friend would be a flawed system.

 

Thank you for reading my posts, understanding what I said and then contributing your opinion.


Edited by Berlo, 14 August 2014 - 07:24.


#22 zargon

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:38

Yes I understood that you want to defend your position on needing flakes, rems and gems after being yelled at. Some people have little patience. It's just how it is. Sorry, you wrote a lot and carried this pretty far and I may have missed one comment there. No reason to be sarcastic about it. We are trying to help here. But if you are already hardset on knowing what's best, then not much else I can say. Many of us have played this for a year or more and have all adapted well to the system. I see nothing at all wrong with it.

 

If we increase the items we need on, then eventually people will need on stuff by mistake. "Oh sorry dude, I didn't mean to need on the gear piece for your class"

 

My very first response spelled it out exactly how this community works with the need, greed and pass system. It's pretty straight forward and works. Why need on items which everyone wants when we can all choose the common GREED for those types of items and not cause a NEED mess ?


Edited by zargon, 14 August 2014 - 07:58.


#23 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:05

My very first response spelled it out exactly how this community works with the need, greed and pass system. It's pretty straight forward and works. Why need on items which everyone wants when we can all choose the common GREED for those types of items and not cause a NEED mess ?

 

Let me put it into perspective for you with two scenarios.

 

First Scenario (current community standard)

A piece of loot drops and it is an Elemental Flake. Every single person in the group wants this so they all roll GREED except, one person decides to wait and roll need at the last minute, therefore overtaking the greed rolls and receives the loot. This is a flawed system because it gives room for error and people can take the loot last minute if they don't follow the community standard.

 

Second Scenario (the way I think it should be)

A piece of loot drops and it is an Elemental Flake. Every single person in the group wants this so they all roll NEED. The system rolls and someone receives the loot fairly based on the rolls. There is no room for error and no way that someone can take the loot last minute.



#24 Medi3vil

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:12

my friend, just one thing: "This is eldevin" 
 
zargon already told you, need to pieces of armor or something previously discussed and agreed with the group. To all other full greed. 
 
well if you like "good",  and if you do not like, "good" too xD 
 
note: im drunk xD


#25 zargon

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:13

People who pull a stunt like that will find is very hard to get into groups. Nobody will group with you if you need on flakes, rems and gems. You notice how pissed off people got at you ? Keep doing that and see how playing the game solo from now on will feel like. The community all knows this and will not group with you if you do that. (I am referring the the general you now and not you specific)



#26 Gnipe

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:13

And you zargon, should watch this whole system without your community goggles and think about new players.

 

There are lots of players who have played mmos (over 10years, but time really doesn't matter here) with same kind of need/greed/pass system and standard have been need if you need. In most of those games needing item that you can't use is not even possible.

 

There really isn't anything more frustrating that getting yelled/kicked etc. for something that you keep as standard policy and you don't want bad for anyone.



#27 zargon

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:16

I was yelled at when I first started. I didn't know either and someone told me as I am doing now. I think about the community and how they play because I am part of this community. As for you getting yelled at and kicked, that is wrong if it's your first time you and did not know.


Edited by zargon, 14 August 2014 - 08:19.


#28 Xian

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:18

Hi Berlo,

 

I think you are right in that everyone should just need on flakes and rems as they need it.  However, in a dungeon there will be more items you will have to greed than need.  So when you are at a point when you are just running dungeons just for the general chance of loots and not for equips it would be easier and faster to just click greed greed greed greed then move on to next boss than to scan every item to watch out what to need or greed for.  So it's more of for convenience rather than strict defintion. 

 

Also yes, this way ppl can need last minute but that's why we kick them :D  but your situation was unfair because you did not know of the convention beforehand.

 

I hope you understand.  I believe Narciss has explained this, you must have missed it.



#29 Kinfa1987

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:22

Berlo do you have hard time processing things ppl say to you in your mind or what ??

No NEED on GEMS, REMENATS and FLAKES ,,,, 

Why do you make a big deal out of it ???

99.99% community agreed on that only you are being an dumb



There is a simple solution for players that need them.

kick and never play again with them...

one more thing, what do you think why i was playing Ohdar with you, to help you or to get rid of my gold on repairs?

 


Edited by Kinfa1987, 14 August 2014 - 08:27.


#30 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:26

you are being an dumb

 

Being an dumb. Yep. Alright.



#31 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:28

Hi Berlo,

 

I think you are right in that everyone should just need on flakes and rems as they need it.  However, in a dungeon there will be more items you will have to greed than need.  So when you are at a point when you are just running dungeons just for the general chance of loots and not for equips it would be easier and faster to just click greed greed greed greed then move on to next boss than to scan every item to watch out what to need or greed for.  So it's more of for convenience rather than strict defintion. 

 

Also yes, this way ppl can need last minute but that's why we kick them :D  but your situation was unfair because you did not know of the convention beforehand.

 

I hope you understand.  I believe Narciss has explained this, you must have missed it.

 

I understand 100%, but I am still not understanding the logic behind it whatsoever. People just dismiss my thoughts and say I am dumb haha.



#32 Narciss

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:34

Let me put it into perspective for you with two scenarios.

 

First Scenario (current community standard)

A piece of loot drops and it is an Elemental Flake. Every single person in the group wants this so they all roll GREED except, one person decides to wait and roll need at the last minute, therefore overtaking the greed rolls and receives the loot. This is a flawed system because it gives room for error and people can take the loot last minute if they don't follow the community standard.

 

Second Scenario (the way I think it should be)

A piece of loot drops and it is an Elemental Flake. Every single person in the group wants this so they all roll NEED. The system rolls and someone receives the loot fairly based on the rolls. There is no room for error and no way that someone can take the loot last minute.

 

Look,everyone need everything. But yes true, you have a point there "why do all people greed instead of need?"

 

Simple, there is a lot of problem if people choose need every single time/most of the time instead of greed it.

 

Once you run a couple of dungeon, there will be a lot of drops from mobs, and it would be very problematic to choose every single time what to greed and what to need. It is much simpler to greed everytime or need everytime....

 

Then why not need instead of greed?

 

This is not big problem if all stuff is not bound, at least until we equip them.

 

In higher lvl, for example, in lvl 45 dungeon, there is some very rare specific-class-equip drops that is equivalent to like 12 dungeon run (non supporter) and they cant be traded, they bind on pickup. If everyone mindlessly choose need in most of time, a person or two might misclick "need" and that would screw the one who ACTUALLY needs it.

 

So people here usually reserve the "need" for only that occassion. For the class specific eq, in which they are bind-on-pickup.


Edited by Narciss, 14 August 2014 - 08:49.


#33 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:36

Well, don't need on things you don't need. That's just courtesy and I have said since the start of this thread, that it's wrong. My argument is that I get abused for rolling need on something that I need, but so does the entire group.



#34 Unlucker

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:39

How it works here: Always ASK before clicking on NEED, if everyone agrees then do it.

 

I see a logic in what you say and it should be like that, but it's quite late to change it imo.



#35 Xian

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:40

I understand 100%, but I am still not understanding the logic behind it whatsoever. People just dismiss my thoughts and say I am dumb haha.

 

The logic is convenience.

 

 

Well, don't need on things you don't need. That's just courtesy and I have said since the start of this thread, that it's wrong. My argument is that I get abused for rolling need on something that I need, but so does the entire group.

 

You were 'abused' because you did not follow community standard.  And then you asked why is there a standard of NO NEEDING flakes and rems, the answer is convenience as I have said and Narciss has explained it further here:

 

 

 

Once you run a couple of dungeon, there will be a lot of drops from mobs, and it would be very problematic to choose every single time what to greed and what to need. It is much simpler to greed everytime or need everytime....

 

 

 



#36 Fizban

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:43

The group roll system, whether it's flawed or not, is how the game etiquette is done, even if gear drops that my character needs (boots/gloves/better wep) i still ask group if i may need on it, the point is, if you are going to argue the system, you will soon run out of players willing to help you in dungeons, you commented on the system and people tried to explain it to you, up to you if you think it works or not and whether you go by these rules or not, but i strongly advise you to accept them ;)


I can tolerate ignorance, but i cannot stand stupidity

 

the past can't be altered, the future can't be controlled, live for the here and now


#37 zargon

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:45

I am sorry, there is no logic whatsoever in what Berlo says. The pitfalls have been gone over many times. Berlo has no desire to accept it as he just wants to sway people to his belief and then he can go back to others and say "you see, I was right" . It's not about that and shouldn't be. Just read the damn thread though carefully and stop being so damn stubborn. This is not about your pride. This is about a system that works and a new person who hates being made to look bad. I have to go get some sleep. This thread had gone beyond silly.

 

edit: The logic of the roll system was explained to you. It's not a question of whether you can understand it. It's simply that you refuse to understand it. You just want to be right and you're not. You will continue defending yourself here for days in a futile attempt to prove something you will not.


Edited by zargon, 14 August 2014 - 09:00.


#38 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:45

I have no issue accepting it, I was merely asking the logic behind it and instead of taking my opinion and explaining why it is wrong, people just say "do what we have always done".

 

Not one person in this thread has actually explained to me the benefits of rolling GREED over NEED for something that every single person in the group requires for reasons other than selling the equipment.


Edited by Berlo, 14 August 2014 - 08:49.


#39 Xian

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:53

Not one person in this thread has actually explained to me the benefits of rolling GREED over NEED for something that every single person in the group requires for reasons other than selling the equipment.

 

Yes because you seem focused on the replies that attack you rather than those that explain to you.  Please read my post above.



#40 Berlo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:57

Yes because you seem focused on the replies that attack you rather than those that explain to you.  Please read my post above.

 

Convenience was your response. What is the convenience of rolling greed on something that you require to improve your character, with the chance someone else will roll need and take the equipment anyway? If everyone rolled need, there would be no way someone could essentially steal the equipment and everyone would get a fair roll. :)




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