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Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks


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#81 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 02:56

If you want to fight a player with a guild then you should try GvG .. I'd like PvP to be truly that, player versus player

 


#82 mary4ever

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 03:26

Player 1 hits player 2.. Takes XP/gold..

Player 2 takes revenge and attacks back.. Takes XP/gold

Looks like similar risks to me..

you are a PvPer and you know very well that there could be many other scenarios too, here are two:

1) A hits B => deflected , B => revenge attacks & takes xp / gold   => A has huge risk, B has hardly any risk !!!

2) A hits B => A loses , B => revenge attacks & takes xp / gold      => A has huge risk, B has hardly any risk !!!

Even if the revenge hit takes double XP that would be the minimum player 1 risked from a returned bounty..

but the bounty could be taken by more than 1 player + will increase the BB activity !!!

The difference and biggest plus of this feature is you get player 2 attacking back.. Its no longer one attack, but two attacks.. That looks like a small increase in PvP activity.. And its a healthy increase.. It gives the power for revenge solely in the hands of the victim..

sorry but that is not completely true

if placed on the BB then the BH could be bountied and so on => increase of PvP activity

your "revenge attack" STOPS PvP activity after the 2nd player hits back BUT the BB opens a possible ∞ "loop" to keep PvP going which is more PvP activity !!!!

There are even non pvpers in this thread that have admitted they would attack back with this feature.. That's only those who have voiced their opinions..

I totally believe you because like I said your "revenge attack" is just a way to have "safe PvP" with hardly any risk + the other party can get PvP prestige with NO RISK !!!!

 

IF I was a NON-pvper + against xp loss & want "safe pvp" then I would welcome your "revenge attack" idea with open arms because it would only give me advantages !!!

I would get FREE PvP prestige with hardly any risk + do not need to pay gold / FSP & bounty-tickets !!!

 

you can clearly see what & who benefits from your "revenge attack" idea + that it will water down PvP even more !!!


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#83 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 03:55

Huge risk? A huge risk is risking five levels not 10-30% of your level.. If they are deflected or lose their attack and are revenged backed then that's the risk the pvper took when making the initial attack.. They didn't have to but they chose to.. Player A's situation is brought onto themselves.. Player B was the one first attacked and let's not try to forget that.. PLUS they could still lose their revenge attack so that's the same risk the pvper took...


There are a handfuls of ideas and suggestions that could increase the bounty board.. Let's not let that restrict an idea that would allow players to fight for themselves

 


#84 Rocknoor

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 04:04

 


you are a PvPer and you know very well that there could be many other scenarios too, here are two:

1) A hits B => deflected , B => revenge attacks & takes xp / gold   => A has huge risk, B has hardly any risk !!!

2) A hits B => A loses , B => revenge attacks & takes xp / gold      => A has huge risk, B has hardly any risk !!!
 

There are even non pvpers in this thread that have admitted they would attack back with this feature.. That's only those who have voiced their opinions..

I totally believe you because like I said your "revenge attack" is just a way to have "safe PvP" with hardly any risk + the other party can get PvP prestige with NO RISK !!!!

 

IF I was a NON-pvper + against xp loss & want "safe pvp" then I would welcome your "revenge attack" idea with open arms because it would only give me advantages !!!

I would get FREE PvP prestige with hardly any risk + do not need to pay gold / FSP & bounty-tickets !!!

 

you can clearly see what & who benefits from your "revenge attack" idea + that it will water down PvP even more !!!

Mary, as it stands right now a PvP'er has every advantage in an attack on an offline player with virtually no risk to the initiating attacker.  Now you are complaining that the attacking party is now exposing themselves to a "huge risk".  I'm sorry, but if the attacker can't handle the risk don't attack in the first place. With this proposal you are now giving the attacked the same advantage that the attacker has, to choose the time and place of the attack without having to worry about the now "offended" PvP'er putting them on the BB and calling for a deleveling party.  Before you begin with the defense that the non-PvP'er can take 5 from the initiating PvP'er, most non-PvP'ers don't have those kinds of contacts where every PvP'er has allies that will "defend their friend no matter what". This is not diluting PvP it is leveling the playing field between PvP'ers and non-PvP'ers.


Edited by Rocknoor, 07 March 2015 - 04:07.

 


#85 mary4ever

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 04:18

Huge risk? A huge risk is risking five levels not 10-30% of your level.. If they are deflected or lose their attack and are revenged backed then that's the risk the pvper took when making the initial attack.. They didn't have to but they chose to.. Player A's situation is brought onto themselves.. Player B was the one first attacked and let's not try to forget that..

lets not forget that an attack in an attack regardless of who hit 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ..... ALL attacks should have the same risk, give the same choices of punishment !!!

PLUS they could still lose their revenge attack so that's the same risk the pvper took...
sorry but it is not the same and you know it, you know how the PvP system works !!!

current PvP system:

A hits B => A risks getting deflected, losing, getting on BB & possibly losing 5 levels !!!

B hits A back => B risks getting deflected, losing, getting on BB & possibly losing 5 levels !!!

in the current PvP system you have the SAME RISK !!!!

 

your "revenge attack" system:

A hits B => A risks getting deflected, losing, getting on BB & possibly losing 5 levels !!!

B hits A back => B risks getting deflected, losing BUT NOT getting on BB & possibly losing 5 levels !!!

 

how can you even talk about same risk ?!?

There are a handfuls of ideas and suggestions that could increase the bounty board.. Let's not let that restrict an idea that would allow players to fight for themselves

your "revenge attack" idea is clearly decreasing the BB activity !!!


Edited by mary4ever, 07 March 2015 - 04:25.

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#86 yotekiller

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 04:49

So what happens when this "revenge hit" is either deflected or is a loss.  Now the person originally attacked (defender) feels cheated with no recourse.  Can't disable deflect because the defender could have had it for the first attack and didn't or it just didn't activate.  Deflect is what it is and should work equally for everyone.  If the defender loses the first attack and then loses the revenge hit I can't really see them taking that as a positive experience and wanting to increase their level of pvp activity.  You are painting a picture of pvp being an automatic victory every time but it's not.  Sometimes the attacker loses but that's just part of pvp.  How long do you think it will take for some people to start crying that the revenge hit is unfair because it's not an automatic win for the aggrieved party?  Not very long and then what are you going to do?


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#87 mary4ever

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:01

Mary, as it stands right now a PvP'er has every advantage in an attack on an offline player with virtually no risk to the initiating attacker.  the same applies to NON-PvPer too who have every advantage in an attack on an offline player

Now you are complaining that the attacking party is now exposing themselves to a "huge risk". 

read my previous post at https://forums.hunte...e-5#entry922692, it is clearly NOT the SAME RISK !!!

I'm sorry, but if the attacker can't handle the risk don't attack in the first place. With this proposal you are now giving the attacked the same advantage that the attacker has, to choose the time and place of the attack without having to worry about the now "offended" PvP'er putting them on the BB and calling for a deleveling party. 

the current PvP system gives the attacked the same advantage that the attacker has, to choose the time and place of the attack without giving any side an advantage, BOTH sides have the SAME RISK

Before you begin with the defense that the non-PvP'er can take 5 from the initiating PvP'er, most non-PvP'ers don't have those kinds of contacts where every PvP'er has allies that will "defend their friend no matter what".

here you are proving my point that the "revenge attack" mainly benefits those NON-PvPers (who are against xp loss & want "safe pvp")

This is not diluting PvP it is leveling the playing field between PvP'ers and non-PvP'ers.

it is diluting PvP because this "revenge attack" would for most NON-PvPers replace the placing of bounties which would be very bad for the BB because like I mentioned before, NON-PvPers would get FREE PvP prestige with hardly any risk + do not need to pay gold / FSP & bounty-tickets !!!


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#88 Rocknoor

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:01

Response is to Yotekiller's post: PvP is not without risks, if the attacked person is fearful of losing the "revenge" hit they can always opt for a posting on the BB. Just like the initial PvP'er they have a choice of whether to attack or not, if they attack and lose the revenge hit tough luck, them's the breaks. No one should get a automatic"win" button as they say.


Edited by Rocknoor, 07 March 2015 - 05:05.

 


#89 Rocknoor

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:30

 

the current PvP system gives the attacked the same advantage that the attacker has, to choose the time and place of the attack without giving any side an advantage, BOTH sides have the SAME RISK

Before you begin with the defense that the non-PvP'er can take 5 from the initiating PvP'er, most non-PvP'ers don't have those kinds of contacts where every PvP'er has allies that will "defend their friend no matter what".

here you are proving my point that the "revenge attack" mainly benefits those NON-PvPers (who are against xp loss & want "safe pvp")

Mary, You as a PvP'er attacking at your time of choosing is "Safe PvP" Everyone knows that 100 stamming a TED player is an automatic loss of 5 levels, 10 stam clear a TED bounty lose 5 levels, 100 stam clear a TED bounty lose 5 levels, hit a TED player back that 100 stammed you lose 5 levels.  Mary as a TED guild mate you have nothing but "safe PvP".

This is not diluting PvP it is leveling the playing field between PvP'ers and non-PvP'ers.

it is diluting PvP because this "revenge attack" would for most NON-PvPers replace the placing of bounties which would be very bad for the BB because like I mentioned before, NON-PvPers would get FREE PvP prestige with hardly any risk + do not need to pay gold / FSP & bounty-tickets !!!

The Bounty Board is dead because it is not punishment anymore. It is generally populated by TED players who are cleared by their "friends". So why should a Non-PvP'er pay gold or FSP to enrich a "friend" of the person that cost them gold and XP.  Want to see the Bounty Board come back to life, put in a no counter-bounty provision, the Bounty Board as constituted right now is a joke.  Why shouldn't Non-PvP'ers get FREE PvP prestige as you call it, you get it when you attack an unbuffed target, your friends get it on the BB when they clear you as there is no Bounty Hunter XP loss on a loss but they get that FREE PvP point for every win. Personally I think the "revenge" hit is one of the better ideas to come out about increasing PvP activity.

 


 


#90 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:31

If deflected hits are an issue for pvpers, then I would suggest to start a thread about changing those rules..

I'd even suggest in here, if someone is deflected then a revenge attack can't be made NOR a bounty then.. If I can't take my revenge personally then someone else shouldn't either. .

 


#91 BadPenny

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:34

Although getting bountied (or revenge hit, as the case may be) for a deflected hit is annoying, I fully understand that my intent was there....  When a guy tries to rob a liquor store and the clerk beats him up and he gets arrested, he still gets the same sentence as he would have if he had succeeded and gotten caught at a later date..... Same concept here should apply ;)


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#92 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:34

Why shouldn't Non-PvP'ers get FREE PvP prestige as you call it, you get it when you attack an unbuffed target, your friends get it on the BB when they clear you as there is no Bounty Hunter XP loss on a loss but they get that FREE PvP point for every win


Don't know how this could be argued lol

 


#93 mary4ever

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 07:09

the current PvP system gives the attacked the same advantage that the attacker has, to choose the time and place of the attack without giving any side an advantage, BOTH sides have the SAME RISK
Before you begin with the defense that the non-PvP'er can take 5 from the initiating PvP'er, most non-PvP'ers don't have those kinds of contacts where every PvP'er has allies that will "defend their friend no matter what".
here you are proving my point that the "revenge attack" mainly benefits those NON-PvPers (who are against xp loss & want "safe pvp")
Mary, You as a PvP'er attacking at your time of choosing is "Safe PvP" Everyone knows that 100 stamming a TED player is an automatic loss of 5 levels, 10 stam clear a TED bounty lose 5 levels, 100 stam clear a TED bounty lose 5 levels, hit a TED player back that 100 stammed you lose 5 levels.  Mary as a TED guild mate you have nothing but "safe PvP".
so you have run out of arguments and choose to attack my guild, that is very low & sad to see you stoop down to this level, whats next, are you going to draw the "bully" card and accuse me of being a bully just because I am doing PvP???
I do not know you and you do not know me !!! you seem to have a problem with my guild or at least with some members
few weeks ago we had a player joining us who thought the same about my guild as you and soon he started randomly 100 staming for no decent reason and when he got smashed in return he asked the guild for back-up, needless to say we kicked that player !!!
he was not the 1st one and will probably not be the last one to try to join us for the wrong reason because of player like you who are spreading bad rumours!!!
This is not diluting PvP it is leveling the playing field between PvP'ers and non-PvP'ers.
it is diluting PvP because this "revenge attack" would for most NON-PvPers replace the placing of bounties which would be very bad for the BB because like I mentioned before, NON-PvPers would get FREE PvP prestige with hardly any risk + do not need to pay gold / FSP & bounty-tickets !!!
The Bounty Board is dead because it is not punishment anymore. It is generally populated by TED players who are cleared by their "friends". So why should a Non-PvP'er pay gold or FSP to enrich a "friend" of the person that cost them gold and XP.  Want to see the Bounty Board come back to life, put in a no counter-bounty provision, the Bounty Board as constituted right now is a joke.  Why shouldn't Non-PvP'ers get FREE PvP prestige as you call it, you get it when you attack an unbuffed target, your friends get it on the BB when they clear you as there is no Bounty Hunter XP loss on a loss but they get that FREE PvP point for every win. Personally I think the "revenge" hit is one of the better ideas to come out about increasing PvP activity.
like I said, you seem to have a problem with my guild or some members and what is this talk about friends? if you do not have friends in the game then I fear you are doing something wrong mellow.png
ALL players (PvPers & NON-PvPers) I know have friends who would clear them from the BB !!!


IMO my guild is the best guild with the most active players who help & support each other with buffs, potions & advices BUT most importantly we protect each other !!!

 
try to stay on topic & civil so this thread does not end up locked like most PvP topics !!!


Edited by BigGrim, 09 March 2015 - 11:47.
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#94 mary4ever

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 07:17


Why shouldn't Non-PvP'ers get FREE PvP prestige as you call it, you get it when you attack an unbuffed target, your friends get it on the BB when they clear you as there is no Bounty Hunter XP loss on a loss but they get that FREE PvP point for every win.

 

Don't know how this could be argued lol

you seriously do not know how this can be argued:

Why shouldn't Non-PvP'ers get FREE PvP prestige


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#95 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:04

Talking about the truth after that..

 


#96 Rocknoor

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:14

the current PvP system gives the attacked the same advantage that the attacker has, to choose the time and place of the attack without giving any side an advantage, BOTH sides have the SAME RISK
Before you begin with the defense that the non-PvP'er can take 5 from the initiating PvP'er, most non-PvP'ers don't have those kinds of contacts where every PvP'er has allies that will "defend their friend no matter what".
here you are proving my point that the "revenge attack" mainly benefits those NON-PvPers (who are against xp loss & want "safe pvp")
Mary, You as a PvP'er attacking at your time of choosing is "Safe PvP" Everyone knows that 100 stamming a TED player is an automatic loss of 5 levels, 10 stam clear a TED bounty lose 5 levels, 100 stam clear a TED bounty lose 5 levels, hit a TED player back that 100 stammed you lose 5 levels.  Mary as a TED guild mate you have nothing but "safe PvP".
so you have run out of arguments and choose to attack my guild, that is very low & sad to see you stoop down to this level, whats next, are you going to draw the "bully" card and accuse me of being a bully just because I am doing PvP???
I do not know you and you do not know me !!! you seem to have a problem with my guild or at least with some members
few weeks ago we had a player joining us who thought the same about my guild as you and soon he started randomly 100 staming for no decent reason and when he got smashed in return he asked the guild for back-up, needless to say we kicked that player !!!
he was not the 1st one and will probably not be the last one to try to join us for the wrong reason because of player like you who are spreading bad rumours!!!
 
Response to red comment:
 
Mary, I wish I was working off of rumors unfortuantely with the exception of 1 player in your guild every 10 stam bounty I have cleared in your guild has resulted in a counter-bounty that cost me 5 levels. As far as the "bully" tag I never alluded to that but try this on for size. 8 days ago in response, I assume to some contrary opinions I posted in the Forum, one of your guildmates, who has not appeared let alone posted on the forum,  buffed up and hit me not once, not twice, but 3 times in a 3 and 1/2 hour span. His PvP Prestige raised 10 points in that time span. I posted each of the hits on the Forum and the attacks stopped.  I question why would one person that  I had had a Secure Transaction with the week before and exchanged pleasantries with would suddenly buff up and out of all the targets available hit me and only me. 3 days later another hit and his Presitge points went up another 10 points over the what he had when he last hit me, then the next day another 100 stam hit and then another until I leveled out of his range 2 days ago. In all that time the only change in his PvP prestige points was when he 100 stammed me after a 3 day cooling off period...What are the chances that I would be the only one attacked by this person over a 5 day period if there were not an agenda? Why did I not hit back you ask, because I knew that a 4,000,000 XP loss 100 stam hit on him would cost me 5 levels in a placed bounty, not a fair exchange I thought. So please when you talk to me don't accuse me of spreading rumors, my feelings toward your guild are earned by your guild's actions not by some "rumor" I heard somewhere else.


 


#97 Rocknoor

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 10:53

Mary as you stated before, other than this thread we have never crossed paths and we don't know each other.  On this subject of Revenge HIts, we are both adamant in our position so let's just agree to disagree and move on and let others have their say.


 


#98 BadPenny

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 17:41

Just to clarify, for Rocky... I have cleared many TED players off the board.... NEVER have I been counter-bountied.  ALWAYS I have been thanked graciously for the clear, even if a level was lost.   TED members have always treated me with the same respect that I give to them.... If this is not the case for you, maybe this is a personal matter for you.  In any case, the scenario you describe has no place in this thread, which has remained friendly for the most part to this point.  

 

And Mary, I don't think this would kill the BB.  It's already kind of dead as it is (no pun intended)  It wouldn't be free prestige for the nonPvPer either.  Prestige is already "free".  Mostly this just kills the "double dipping" option that so many take.  We all know what happens to double dippers, they would be the ones that lose risk in any way at all. This only makes them choose one way or the other, and eliminates the possibility of both occurring.


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#99 kitobas

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 12:10

Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks is good for players who do not do pvp and want pvp prestige for no risk

 

 

every player who knowing how pvp game mechanics working will tell you >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks< is decrease in bounty board and pvp activity

 

I give example with >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks< and with pvp we having now, then everyone can see why >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks< is bad for pvp activity

 

player a hitting player b for gold, player b >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks< player a and pvp stop here because player a can not bounty player b for >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks<

 

pvp we having now give many choices

player a hitting player b for gold

  • player b doing nothing
  • player b bounty player a and player a get 100 stam by player c, from here many choices
  • player b bounty player a and player a get 10 stam by player c, player a can bounty player c if want or stop
  • player b bounty player a and player a lose 5 levels by player c, d, e, f (you need 4 players for taking 5 levels), from here many choices
  • player b hitting back, from here many choices
  • many choices

players who not do pvp and got hitting for gold or prestige will use >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks< and not use bounty board anymore because >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks< is cheaper, you no have pay reward and you get prestige for no risk and not can get bounty for >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks<

 

players who normally would bounty for gold and prestige hits will not use bounty board anymore (=less pvp activity), they will use safe and cheap >Revenge Attack Option For Returned Attacks<

 

I will tell you same thing I and many players telling you in many pvp forum

https://forums.hunte...ty/#entry919322

 

everytime you posting things about PVP you wanting pillow fight, pvp with no xp loss

 

I will tell you same thing like 100 other player posts in this forum:

if you want playing pvp with no xp loss then you can bro, nobody stopping you, play ARENA or GVG

there you having no xp loss like you wanting but I hearing from friends activity low there

 



#100 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 12:51

If the prestige for no risk on a return attack is the problem. Just don't assign prestige for return hits, it's kind of simple really.

 

 

I get the feeling there are people against this because it removes the ability to start wars/destroy people for hitting back. (either directly or via the BB)

This is a little sad.

 

Honestly though while some would indeed use the revenge option. I'd imagine on the whole not much would change, people would just carry on ignoring the initial attack. Since at the end of the day it's the simplest thing to do, you never come out on top after you've already suffered the first hit anyway...


Edited by Mister Doom, 08 March 2015 - 12:52.

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