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'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.


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#221 avvakum

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 18:21

They could just take away XP loss from PvP and do nothing else.. 

well, they should definitely do it for a week. lol the majority of players adapted to the "unspoken" rules from the first days in the game - they have learned how to not make themselves a target. Actually, some of them are probably even satisfied when by doing something they don't get a hit. Now they will get the wild west, because HCS wants to decrease the load on their support center. Really?  ;)



#222 yotwehc

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 18:26

well, they should definitely do it for a week. lol the majority of players adapted to the "unspoken" rules from the first days in the game - they have learned how to not make themselves a target. Actually, some of them are probably even satisfied when by doing something they don't get a hit. Now they will get the wild west, because HCS wants to decrease the load on their support center. Really? ;)

What are these unspoken rules? Here is what I have gathered thus far:
- don't be rude after someone hits you no matter if they are rude to you or not
- don't 100 stam a bounty and not complete it
- don't double dip
- don't clear a bounty if it's about to expire
Anything else? Well, I guess it's moot once the new rules go into effect but that's a lot of rules for someone to figure out in the first few days.

#223 RebornJedi

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 18:39

Now they will get the wild west, because HCS wants to decrease the load on their support center. Really?  ;)


Easy to toss out a copy/paste message of 'Fallen Sword is a PvP game' :P just a friendly reminder to head back to the battlefield and maintain CONSTANT VIGILANCE!

 


#224 avvakum

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 19:33

What are these unspoken rules? Here is what I have gathered thus far:
- don't be rude after someone hits you no matter if they are rude to you or not
- don't 100 stam a bounty and not complete it
- don't double dip
- don't clear a bounty if it's about to expire
Anything else? Well, I guess it's moot once the new rules go into effect but that's a lot of rules for someone to figure out in the first few days.

lol I don't know what your source is, but I didn't mean some basic ethics for pvp'ing. 

 

If you were in my attacking range (it sounds like a wish lol) with deflect and no gold, the odds to be attacked by me would be 0. Of course, there was The Smasher day, when I hit probably 140 players unreasonably, but I had like 80+ bounties on my head and lost many levels because of many "unreasonable" 100 stam hits on my bounties, but it was all fair and good, no complaints and nobody lost levels after that. OK, maybe Stang's birthday, but come on, it's not that often! lol



#225 yotwehc

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 19:40

lol I don't know what your source is, but I didn't mean some basic ethics for pvp'ing. 

 

If you were in my attacking range (it sounds like a wish lol) with deflect and no gold, the odds to be attacked by me would be 0. Of course, there was The Smasher day, when I hit probably 140 players unreasonably, but I had like 80+ bounties on my head and lost many levels because of many "unreasonable" 100 stam hits on my bounties, but it was all fair and good, no complaints and nobody lost levels after that. OK, maybe Stang's birthday, but come on, it's not that often! lol

Oh so the list i got is false? :) What are these "unspoken" rules you speak of if not for pvp'ing ethics? Just the holding gold part?



#226 avvakum

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 19:44

Easy to toss out a copy/paste message of 'Fallen Sword is a PvP game' :P just a friendly reminder to head back to the battlefield and maintain CONSTANT VIGILANCE!

It's all fun of course, but from my experience, when changes happen and they bring heartbreak, there is no way back... only ahead where death is the only way out.. :(  



#227 avvakum

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 19:50

Oh so the list i got is false? :) What are these "unspoken" rules you speak of if not for pvp'ing ethics? Just the holding gold part?

I would say at least care a bit about your gold in the hands - deflect, cloak, etc. lol some people go offline with 2-3 millions in the hands, and then we are bullies.  



#228 avvakum

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 20:05

Question! Would it be easier to tie the starting amount of PvPXP to a players current XP total? Not sure one way or another.

 

well, if PvPLvL is player's Max. Equip. Level then it would be easier. 



#229 avvakum

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 20:32

I'm all for players having to partake in differing parts of the game to gain the rewards. Why I'm thinking of the change is because XP Loss is proving to be a huge negative effect on players. Their levels are worth something to them, and having them stripped from them by other players is damaging their game experience.

 

 

Apparently aren't worth enough to fight for...


Edited by avvakum, 04 October 2014 - 05:00.


#230 yotwehc

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:57

 

 

 

Apparently aren't worth enough to fight for...

 

Fighting for it gets your xp back? who knew... learn something new everyday.



#231 Belaric

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:59

 

 

 

Apparently aren't worth enough to fight for...

 

Are you going to keep arguing against posts that are almost 2 weeks old, or will you make a point that is relevant to now?

 

Let us see what BG and Hoof propose as to the future of the game. They have not done that yet.

 

Hoof has said he will propose a new system in the near future.

 

I look forward to discussing the effects of his actual game system with you when he posts them.


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#232 Zennaro

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 10:12

As a leveller I like this idea. And I hope it brings fun to those who enjoy pvp.

 

Would it be possible to cut off the gear you can use at the lowest  level of the one you attack or your own?

 

Ie. if you are level 1000 and you hit someone at level 50 only gear at level 50 and lower would count. And if you are level 50 and attack someone at level 1000 then also only gear at level 50 or lower would be possible.

 

This would mean that higher level players can engage lower level players in a meaningful way and it would give the lower level pvp players an incentive to level up.

 

 

Virtually yours,

Zennaro



#233 yotekiller

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:39

As a leveller I like this idea. And I hope it brings fun to those who enjoy pvp.

 

Would it be possible to cut off the gear you can use at the lowest  level of the one you attack or your own?

 

Ie. if you are level 1000 and you hit someone at level 50 only gear at level 50 and lower would count. And if you are level 50 and attack someone at level 1000 then also only gear at level 50 or lower would be possible.

 

This would mean that higher level players can engage lower level players in a meaningful way and it would give the lower level pvp players an incentive to level up.

 

 

Virtually yours,

Zennaro

Have you tried the arena?  There are gear level limits so everyone competes at the same level and there's no XP loss either so that sounds exactly like what you're asking for.


Screenshot everything!


#234 avvakum

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 12:41

Let us see what BG and Hoof propose as to the future of the game. They have not done that yet.

 

Hoof has said he will propose a new system in the near future.

 

I look forward to discussing the effects of his actual game system with you when he posts them.

 

Well.. let's wait then. Shouldn't the thread be locked or something? 

 



#235 Belaric

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 14:46

Well.. let's wait then. Shouldn't the thread be locked or something? 

Cute how you edited out my first sentence. No-one would notice that trick at all.

 

But... you are right, the discussion should roll on. 


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#236 avvakum

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 16:55

Cute how you edited out my first sentence. No-one would notice that trick at all.

 

But... you are right, the discussion should roll on. 

What is "relevant" now? Where are we at now then? 

 

"XP loss going" and PvP activity is going to boom. There is an assumption that because of some pvpxp, potions and gold, pvp attacks will be reasonable and target other players with pvpxp. imho, the motivation is insufficient - no less than PvP LvL == Max. Equip. LvL. is needed.

 

 

 



#237 BadPenny

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 03:34

Let me speak briefly about gold theft here.  BigGrim has already stated that this will remain virtually untouched and I agree that it should.  I believe that the theft rate will be modified to reflect the attacker's PvP XP (by whatever name we call it), i.e. the greater the level the higher the gold take.  In my experience, we are averaging 25% for each hit.... this is including what is scattered and left behind.  Of this amount, roughly 10% is left behind... Every now and then, I will get 50%, and even more rarely, MT will kick in and I will take it all.... Most of the time, MT occurs during a 10 stam bounty kill or a prestige hit, and only extremely rarely when my sole intention is to steal your gold, so that usually these MT grabs are small amounts indeed.  With the changes, these amounts will change, and nobody knows for sure how or how much yet.  By tying the ratio of gold taken into the PvP XP level of a player, that player has an incentive to keep that level as high as possible... I plan to keep mine high, just because I want to be a PvP superstar.  So, those of you who are afraid you're going to be robbed blind with no impunity, think again.  This is from a hardcore PvPer's perspective.... There will still be consequences, they will just be new and will take some time for all of us to adjust to...

 

 

~Just my 2 Pennys


Edited by BadPenny, 05 October 2014 - 03:37.

Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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#238 yotekiller

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 04:06

Let me speak briefly about gold theft here.  BigGrim has already stated that this will remain virtually untouched and I agree that it should.  I believe that the theft rate will be modified to reflect the attacker's PvP XP (by whatever name we call it), i.e. the greater the level the higher the gold take.  In my experience, we are averaging 25% for each hit.... this is including what is scattered and left behind.  Of this amount, roughly 10% is left behind... Every now and then, I will get 50%, and even more rarely, MT will kick in and I will take it all.... Most of the time, MT occurs during a 10 stam bounty kill or a prestige hit, and only extremely rarely when my sole intention is to steal your gold, so that usually these MT grabs are small amounts indeed.  With the changes, these amounts will change, and nobody knows for sure how or how much yet.  By tying the ratio of gold taken into the PvP XP level of a player, that player has an incentive to keep that level as high as possible... I plan to keep mine high, just because I want to be a PvP superstar.  So, those of you who are afraid you're going to be robbed blind with no impunity, think again.  This is from a hardcore PvPer's perspective.... There will still be consequences, they will just be new and will take some time for all of us to adjust to...

 

 

~Just my 2 Pennys

So what happens to the Thieves Guild structure if the theft rate is now tied to each person' xp level?  I, and many others, lobbied long and hard to get the theft rates increased because they were so low.  Of course there were many others that lobbied against it but the Thieves Guild was introduced as a measure of compromise.  Is that structure going away or will it continue to add even more to the theft rates?  At what point will the theft rates top out?  I can already max out my Thievery at 140% and Master Thief at 100% so how much farther will be able to I go with this new system?  Will it still be at 140% and 100%?  That's not an improvement and if I can already get that I won't have to worry about my xp level to get the most gold.  If you increase the percentages how do you calculate percentage gained per xp and where does it stop?  200% for Thievery and 150% for Master Thief?  Will the current Enhancement bars be used to indicate theft rates or will there be something new?  As you can see, there are still a lot more questions than answers about this new system.


Screenshot everything!


#239 BadPenny

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 04:22

I realize there are many burning questions, and this is but one of them.  I don't know the answers any more than anybody else, and to be perfectly honest, I don't think anybody does yet.  These things need to be thoroughly addressed before any changes be put into effect, and I don't see that coming for a weeks if not months.  All I can go by is what has been written here and discussed in global chat.   I do know that the XP loss is going, there are no two ways about it, and other consequences must be devised.  This thing is, I see a lot of bickering, (not you, they all know who they are), and nothing constructive can come of that.  Constructive suggestions are what we need here, not a lot of back biting and pessimistic speculation.  Please, post your ideas.... Let's stop complaining and protesting and try to move forward.... Please?

 

 

#end rant


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

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#240 avvakum

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:52

 Constructive suggestions are what we need here, not a lot of back biting and pessimistic speculation.  Please, post your ideas.... Let's stop complaining and protesting and try to move forward.... Please?

XP loss has been a core value of the current system from the first days. Taking it out breaks too much stuff. What can be suggested if the task is "drawing 7 red lines, all of them strictly perpendicular to each other; some with green ink and some with transparent. - what exactly is stopping us from doing this? - Geometry. - Just ignore it! -surely it's not a difficult task to draw some seven lines! -Don't complain about this task, suggest a solution! Any fool can criticise!" 

 

I believe small evolutionary changes to the current system are superior to revolutionary rewrite-from-scratch-utopian panacean ideas, like this pvpxp / "BLOOD".

 

 




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