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Development Update 19th November 2014


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#121 Altiger

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 15:16

raist007 your idea is almost a copy of the current ARENA with the tourneys with the exception that you have to pay XP fee instead of GOLD fee

 

sorry for asking this raist007 but have you ever played the pvp ladder? we have to wait 1 hour before doing the next attack and for me that is long enough, with your idea I would have to wait 5-6 days if I get eliminated in the first round before I can hit again and that is very bad

 

I am busy in real life and I will enter the new pvp tournament system when I have enough time to spare for doing attacks

 

you say that some player have a ton more stam than others to enagage in PVP with

I do not see a problem with that, some players donate to the game or other methods like titan hunting, buff selling ..... to increase their stamina and this is how hcs and the game survive, all my character upgrades are from donating to the game like some other players too

 

winners and losers lose the same XP because of the XP fee

we should stay with if I win combat I do not lose XP, if I lose combat I lose XP

 

sorry but I do not like this tourney thing system at all, too similar to the ARENA which I have never entered and never will



#122 Calista

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 15:21

Ugh, so many people bunching PvP players into the same mold. It doesn't work that way, any more then it works when levelers are bunched together. I know I'm considered one of the more ruthless pvp players, or so I am told. I'll hit anybody if the reasons are right. But I don't hit random people for gold. I don't hit people for prestige. I don't jump random bounties for smasher ticks. I don't go out and start issues. I just back up my guild and friends when others start the trouble. I guarantee no one has lost XP on the bb without first hitting someone. The majority of PvP players I know won't stomp without a solid reason to. (double dipping, mercs, trash talking, threats, etc) and we've been known to go after other pvp players who make us look bad.

It's sad to see the people screaming the loudest about what 'most' pvp players do are hypocrites about it. You got one guy on here screaming who was totally fine jumping random bounties to 100 stam and get paid to delevel a player who did absolutely nothing to them. How is it okay when you pvp but we're the evil ones? Or the other guy crying about getting deleveled for hitting someone one time? You hit someone, that's how it works. It's called a risk. That's a huge part of PvP which we keep saying.

Just to give an example, last week I was hit by a prestige hitter, 10 stam hit with buffs and a long message explaining to me why he was hitting me. I 100 stammed him back once and he immediately sent a message saying he wouldn't hit again. Few days later, he hits me again and sends a message laughing about how he was going to hit me anyway. Again, a 10 stam hit with buffs. So I started 100 stamming hourly, probably about 8 hits. Low and behold, the guy starts crying and making threats about the bb. I told him it was his decision how the rest of the issue went, but it was between us as far as I was concerned. Guess what, he stopped hitting and stopped making threats. So am I the bully for defending myself against hits I didn't like just because he used 10 stam? Or did I use the available means in the game to discourage a prestige hitter by making the prestige not worth the xp he lost? You can ask that of 5 people and you'd probably get 5 different answers. Luckily in FS, I have the ability to decide for myself how to discourage a prestige hitter. Without the xp loss, I'd have been a sitting duck forced to sit back and tolerate being hit whether I liked it or not. There is a purpose to it, there always has been. Is it abused by some players? Hell yes, but the same can be said in gvg, titan hunting, leveling, etc. HCS has and will step in if an issue gets out of control. But some of you need to take some responsibility in that as well.


 


#123 WWWolf

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 15:55

Ugh, so many people bunching PvP players into the same mold. It doesn't work that way, any more then it works when levelers are bunched together. I know I'm considered one of the more ruthless pvp players, or so I am told. I'll hit anybody if the reasons are right. But I don't hit random people for gold. I don't hit people for prestige. I don't jump random bounties for smasher ticks. I don't go out and start issues. I just back up my guild and friends when others start the trouble. I guarantee no one has lost XP on the bb without first hitting someone. The majority of PvP players I know won't stomp without a solid reason to. (double dipping, mercs, trash talking, threats, etc) and we've been known to go after other pvp players who make us look bad.

It's sad to see the people screaming the loudest about what 'most' pvp players do are hypocrites about it. You got one guy on here screaming who was totally fine jumping random bounties to 100 stam and get paid to delevel a player who did absolutely nothing to them. How is it okay when you pvp but we're the evil ones? Or the other guy crying about getting deleveled for hitting someone one time? You hit someone, that's how it works. It's called a risk. That's a huge part of PvP which we keep saying.

Just to give an example, last week I was hit by a prestige hitter, 10 stam hit with buffs and a long message explaining to me why he was hitting me. I 100 stammed him back once and he immediately sent a message saying he wouldn't hit again. Few days later, he hits me again and sends a message laughing about how he was going to hit me anyway. Again, a 10 stam hit with buffs. So I started 100 stamming hourly, probably about 8 hits. Low and behold, the guy starts crying and making threats about the bb. I told him it was his decision how the rest of the issue went, but it was between us as far as I was concerned. Guess what, he stopped hitting and stopped making threats. So am I the bully for defending myself against hits I didn't like just because he used 10 stam? Or did I use the available means in the game to discourage a prestige hitter by making the prestige not worth the xp he lost? You can ask that of 5 people and you'd probably get 5 different answers. Luckily in FS, I have the ability to decide for myself how to discourage a prestige hitter. Without the xp loss, I'd have been a sitting duck forced to sit back and tolerate being hit whether I liked it or not. There is a purpose to it, there always has been. Is it abused by some players? Hell yes, but the same can be said in gvg, titan hunting, leveling, etc. HCS has and will step in if an issue gets out of control. But some of you need to take some responsibility in that as well.

Well said!

Many here (both PvP and Non-PvP players) tend to want to lump all of PvP players in to a single group or discount other players experiences and say that's not a "typical PvP player".

There are MANY different play styles (both in and out of PvP) and you can't limit your understanding to just what you have experienced in game.  It helps to listen to others and try to understand that their experiences may be different than yours.

 

Personally, I am a non-PvP player that has MANY friends here on both sides of the argument.  I have nothing against PvP or those who choose to participate but one of the things that keeps me coming back here is that I have the choice to not participate if I don't want to.  That said, I have NEVER attacked another player here.

 

 Since starting this game I have been attacked NUMEROUS times for many reasons.  One reason I know is I guarantee to place you on the BB.  Some PvP players take that as a threat but I seriously just like the concept of the Bounty Board and enjoy supporting it (I have placed 151 Bounties to date).

 

Being attacked so many times, I have come to know many different types of attackers. 

  • There are those who attack for gold - easy enough to avoid these, just watch your gold. 
  • There are those who attack for prestige - these typically complain about being placed on the BB but that's why I have a warning on my bio. 
  • There are those who attack because they don't like you or your bio for some reason - see above.
  • There are those who attack because of who your friends are or what guild you are in - yep, I have been attacked because I was on the friend list of someone they hated...
  • There are those who attack so they can be placed on the BB for whatever reason - some choose this method to delevel themselves or just to have fun defending themselves on the BB
  • There are even those who attack for no apparent reason at all - some maliciously and some who just feel like giving you a "love tap" lol

 

It is impossible to group all these players in to one group or to say "that's not normal" just because you haven't experienced it.

 

Oh, and for the record Calista, I see no problem with the way you handled that prestige hitter.  If you don't like the possible consequences of attacking another player, don't do it.  If you don't mind retaliation of some sort then swing away ;)



#124 raist007

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 16:06

Callista, my apologies if it sounded to you like I was complaining - I was merely trying to exemplify that some players that try to dip their toes into PVP get burned badly, and thus never want to engage in it again.  To answer your questions AlTiger, yes I have played the ladder several times and I do not think that in a PVP tourney system that you should be limited to 1 hour between attacks on the same player.  I was not trying to stir up controversy over the PVP crowd vs the Leveling crowd or whatever.  I am merely trying to throw some ideas into the mix to see the mechanics of how a PVP tourney could enter the game and make most players ok with it.  NO system is gonna be perfect, but instead of just shooting my idea down, why not give some ideas of your own.  If all of the more active PVP players want a PVP tourney that is better than the current ladder, then what are YOUR ideas?  I am simply putting forth some suggestions that would make me want to engage in this aspect of the game more.  When speaking with Badpenny in global chat earlier, a couple other suggestions came up:

 

1)  Either just stick with the current 'opt-in' system for the tourney, or MAYBE do a gold entry fee

2)  Have a cap of XP loss during the tournament similar to being on the bounty board - no more than 5 levels could be lost per tournament

3)  Have all hits in the tourney be 10-stam

4)  Maybe only have a 2-5 minute refresh time on attacking the same opponent - limit of 20 attacks against same opponent

5)  Have a minimum of 50 attacks required to be eligible to move onto the next round of the tourney

6)  After set timeframe (12 or 24 hours), first round would end - the bottom 50% of players in each level band are eliminated, starting with those who have not completed the minimum # of attacks

7)  The next round would have the same criteria, and after another 12 or 24 hours, second round would end - again, the bottom 50% of players would be eliminated from the tourney

8) The third and final round would last 24 hours.  These top players would have unlimited number of attacks during this timeframe.  At end of 24 hours, player with the highest win % would be the champion.  In case of win % tie, the 2 players could faceoff in an arena-style deathmatch.  You could either make it a winner-take-all prize, or have smaller prizes for 2nd and 3rd place.

 

If the first 2 rounds were 12 hours and the final round 24 hours, this would allow the tourney to reset every 2 days. 

 

Comments?



#125 yodamus

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 16:19

When I hunt, I use DBL 1200, my prestige, (usually about 5 hours worth, can I have a slider?)  regular TH and merch (still want a pot for these) regular al and lib pots, and that's it except for the normal stat boosters and am, lf and conserve.  I average 175K per critter with these buffs.  No epic pots, nothing.  A 100 stam attack takes an average of 675K... let's do the math here:  675/175=3.85... so 4 beasts.... that's one square, maybe 2?  

the doubler 1200 costs quite a few loyalty points..so i should have to use them to gain back my losses ? again..making players use money or loyalty to get back what they already earned? .. and it is 250 stamina used to get back that 675k..1/6 of a day for most...3 of those in a day...1/2 of your stamina in a day..and you wonder why people dont like xp loss..no fun going 2 steps forward..1 step back for those of us that care about our xp and our stamina.

 

xp loss- coulda been fixed..was told was going to be fixed..but not fixed..again very disappointing spending 2 months trying to make pvp/xp work, the cows asking for our suggestions and wham- tossed out... and would have been great for many more players to get involved with pvp, without harming one's game..only to see it ignored...not your fault..you even tried to help the new system with ideas...i am most upset that 2 months of bickering and trying to make something work was completly thrown in the trash...

 

to reiterate my points i made in gc last week or so

 

10 stam hits for prestige or gold- i have no problem with, even the xp loss that goes with that

100 stam hits for gold, when someone is carrying lots of gold-  i have no problem with that, even the xp loss that goes with that

100 stam hits for prestige, or when someone is carrying nearly nothing in gold- that i have a problem with..uncalled for..and that to me is bullying, harassing ..antagonizing to get someone to either hit back (and get placed on bb) or to have bounty placed ( to help their friends make more gold, knowing they will be soft cleared..)

 

solution- for prestige hits, only 10 stam hits allowed...non prestige hits  - only 100 stam hits allowed (non bb) if player is holding 250k or more in gold in hand...less than 250k ..only 10 stam hits allowed..i think that would solve many problems..i could be wrong..

 

bb- of course anything goes..


Edited by yodamus, 21 November 2014 - 16:20.


#126 Runesaur

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 17:22

 

solution- for prestige hits, only 10 stam hits allowed...non prestige hits  - only 100 stam hits allowed (non bb) if player is holding 250k or more in gold in hand...less than 250k ..only 10 stam hits allowed..i think that would solve many problems..i could be wrong..

 

bb- of course anything goes..

 

That would mean I'd stop having poor fellas telling me my setup is crap and I am a noob, yet have taken 3-4 FSP off them in gold, and probably 300-400k exp.

 

Life is fun 100 staming people even with <250k gold


Edited by Runesaur, 21 November 2014 - 17:23.


#127 BadPenny

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 17:34

Yoda yoda yoda... It is pointless to 100 stam for prestige.  You get 10 regardless of stam used.  I may be different than some, but I'm not wasting my stam to 100 stam you unless you have gold for me, or you have done something to deserve punishment.  Sure, lots take issue with being hit for prestige, but it's the attack itself.  Taking XP loss out of the equation does not fix this.  As for being slammed with 100 stam hits for no apparent reason, I consider that harassment, and if it were me being singled out like that, I would take it to BG... That's his job after all... He needs to earn his salary somehow.  We don't pay him to sit around and look pretty (that's still my job)


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#128 Davros81

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 17:38

Its when people in guilds demand that 5 levels be taken for a 10 stamina prestige hit, that is when pvp gets ridiculous and its bad reputation and I have witnessed this and heard of it being asked for on many an occasion. Furthermore it is a minority who do this who sully the name of the pvper community as a whole, yet they try to proclaim their innocence, the hypocrisy is stifling...


Edited by Davros81, 21 November 2014 - 18:20.


#129 Runesaur

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 17:46

Its when people in guilds demand that 5 levels be taken for a 10 stamina prestige hit, that is when pvp gets ridiculous and its bad reputation and I have witnessed this and heard of it being asked for on many an occasion. Furthermore it is a minority or do this who sully the name of the pvper community as a whole, yet the try to proclaim their innocence, the hypocrisy is stifling...

 

The other times is when people purposely sit with 250k> gold offline 24/7, you 100 stam them, and they get a full scale 5 level bounty, because your apparently the great big bully.

 

The stupidity in that was funny, and also real :D

 

Edit : Sorry grim :(


Edited by Runesaur, 21 November 2014 - 17:52.
No swearing please.


#130 BadPenny

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 17:49

Its when people in guilds demand that 5 levels be taken for a 10 stamina prestige hit, that is when pvp gets ridiculous and its bad reputation and I have witnessed this and heard of it being asked for on many an occasion. Furthermore it is a minority or do this who sully the name of the pvper community as a whole, yet the try to proclaim their innocence, the hypocrisy is stifling...

Exactly... I make my prestige run and I respect all that do.  Prestige is a much underused buff, primarily because of this issue.  


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#131 yodamus

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 18:52

Yoda yoda yoda... It is pointless to 100 stam for prestige.  You get 10 regardless of stam used.  I may be different than some, but I'm not wasting my stam to 100 stam you unless you have gold for me, or you have done something to deserve punishment.  Sure, lots take issue with being hit for prestige, but it's the attack itself.  Taking XP loss out of the equation does not fix this.  As for being slammed with 100 stam hits for no apparent reason, I consider that harassment, and if it were me being singled out like that, I would take it to BG... That's his job after all... He needs to earn his salary somehow.  We don't pay him to sit around and look pretty (that's still my job)

exactly..it is pointless..but i have had it happens many times.i would be really low on gold..yet instead of 10 stamming me for prestige..i get a 100 stam hit for prestige..and i dont know the person...i dont pm anyone and talk trash about player or guilds..same player was hitting an ally of mine doing the same thing..we are close to same level..so this person hits anyone in his level range for prestige, this person  has usually lost a few levels from bb, and obvisiously does not care about his levels, as most pvpers dont care..uses a 100 stam hit- to antagonize players into putting a bounty on him...as i said before..most pvp players want to be put on bb..at least 60% of the times i have been hit since starting the game, i have received a pm after hit, begging me to put them on bb...100 stam hits are a player's way of trying their best to get put on bb...simple solution- only 10 stam hits allowed for prestige..as far as telling bg..unless someone really really does some serious harassing..bg and cows will not do anything..i learned that a long long time ago...so i dont bother..have seen many of my old guildmates leave the game due to cows not controllling harassing players..

 

i am not upset with you bp,, you are a fair pvper..problem is, you are in the minority of them....since xp loss is not going away..i am trying to find some kind of solution to keep the bullying, harassing and antagonizing from being still used or limited...limiting when a 100 stam hit can be used would go a long way to stopping that..

 

no 100 stam hit for prestige...if used pvper get 0 prestige..and no 100 stam hits (outside of bb) if player is carrying less than 250k in gold..i  could be wrong..but i think that would ease a lot of the problems

 

and should be only 10 or 100 stam hits allowed in pvp...so no one tries a 99 stam hit to get around..


Edited by yodamus, 21 November 2014 - 19:03.


#132 RebornJedi

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 19:20

100 stamina hits should give you more prestige


 


#133 yotwehc

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 19:22

Hits against quality pvp'rs should give more prestige.



#134 RebornJedi

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 19:26

Prestige should only be gained by players online in the last 24 hours.. Every outgoing win earns Prestige due to possible bounty from every attack.. 


Edited by RebornJedi, 21 November 2014 - 19:26.

 


#135 WWWolf

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 19:29

Hits against quality pvp'rs should give more prestige.

yes, it has been suggested many times that engaging in PvP with another player who normally participates in PvP should yield better rewards than against a player who never participates in PvP.  It just makes sense that it takes more skill to combat with someone who will fight back so it should have higher rewards if successful.

This often gets shot down when people start suggesting it as a means to opt out of PvP for farmers but there should be some sort of mechanism to reward players for taking on bigger challenges.



#136 Calista

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 19:46

 

no 100 stam hit for prestige...if used pvper get 0 prestige..and no 100 stam hits (outside of bb) if player is carrying less than 250k in gold..i  could be wrong..but i think that would ease a lot of the problems

 

and should be only 10 or 100 stam hits allowed in pvp...so no one tries a 99 stam hit to get around..

 

Generally, it's not PvP'ers going around hitting for prestige. We get our prestige from the BB and whatever hitting we're doing on our own. That is not speaking for all pvp'ers of course, but you will find more prestige hitters are levelers demanding safe hits. There is no such thing as a safe hit in PvP. There is suppose to be a risk, even if it is for prestige. And many pvp'ers have been taught for years not to waste a chance at a 100 stam hit. Because nothing sucks more then trying to be nice about a hit and the target posting a bounty and getting nasty about it. If we're gonna get punished then might as well make it worth the trouble. 


 


#137 rowbeth

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 20:29

Ugh, so many people bunching PvP players into the same mold. It doesn't work that way, any more then it works when levelers are bunched together.

 

 

i am not upset with you bp,, you are a fair pvper..problem is, you are in the minority of them...

 

There is a lot of typecasting, and a lot of generalising that leaves everyone feeling misunderstood.

 

One of the unfortunate things about this whole issue, though, is it doesn't matter what the majority do. It only takes a small minority to wreck the game for a substantial group of other players. I don't know whether yodamus is right or wrong about BP being in a minority - but that question isn't important. If I (hypothetically) am having my personal game goals smashed by one or two PVPers hitting me frequently, it won't matter to me whether they are a majority or a minority; it just matters that the PVP rules let them be at all.

 

The wisdom needed here is how to limit that minority without restricting the majority. One of the things I liked about the discussions a couple of months ago was that I thought the community really was grappling (however imperfectly) with that issue. That attitude seems to have been lost again in this thread, which is one of the reasons why I'm so disappointed with the sudden U-turn in this post.



#138 yotwehc

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 20:35

Generally, it's not PvP'ers going around hitting for prestige. We get our prestige from the BB and whatever hitting we're doing on our own. That is not speaking for all pvp'ers of course, but you will find more prestige hitters are levelers demanding safe hits. There is no such thing as a safe hit in PvP. There is suppose to be a risk, even if it is for prestige. And many pvp'ers have been taught for years not to waste a chance at a 100 stam hit. Because nothing sucks more then trying to be nice about a hit and the target posting a bounty and getting nasty about it. If we're gonna get punished then might as well make it worth the trouble. 

If only this were true in my PERSONAL case. 90%+ of the times I were hit were from folks in prominent PVP guilds. Unless a player with very high prestige is really considered a "leveler." The times I post these "levelers". they get quickly soft cleared by a "allied" guild. big punishment indeed. some risk... also interesting about most of the "levelers" that are hitting me... they suck at leveling as they are still at the same level when they hit me originally. Maybe they are too cheap to buy new gear.



#139 justinian9

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 20:57

That was me... you can use my name in forum if it is true that I did it.  I did it.  Now lets discuss what I did.  A player posted in FS Box that he was going to list 2 players and was paying 10 FSP per level lost.. so i looked at the bounties.. I saw that the player listing them was in a solo guild and then i looked at the 2 players .. I made the determination that I would help out the player in the solo guild... and I did .. I took 2 levels.  Yes, it was 100 stamina hits,  Was the FSP tempting, Yes it was.  If you wish to say i took it for the FSP I can live with that. (EDIT: To be honest I was happy to get the 20 FSP)

 

Another story.... a few days later this same players posted the same message in FS Box, but when i looked he had left his solo guild and was in a crew... I did not hit on those bounties.

 

I do not consider defending solo players as Hypocritical on my part. I have done it in the past and I will do it again.

 

If anyone questions my actions in game just ask... its a game folks, i don't take this stuff to heart. 

It's sad to see the people screaming the loudest about what 'most' pvp players do are hypocrites about it. You got one guy on here screaming who was totally fine jumping random bounties to 100 stam and get paid to delevel a player who did absolutely nothing to them. How is it okay when you pvp but we're the evil ones?
 


Edited by justinian9, 21 November 2014 - 21:02.


#140 Calista

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 20:58

If only this were true in my PERSONAL case. 90%+ of the times I were hit were from folks in prominent PVP guilds. Unless a player with very high prestige is really considered a "leveler." The times I post these "levelers". they get quickly soft cleared by a "allied" guild. big punishment indeed. some risk... also interesting about most of the "levelers" that are hitting me... they suck at leveling as they are still at the same level when they hit me originally. Maybe they are too cheap to buy new gear.

 

It's very possible we've had different personal experiences then. Given I'm known as a PvP player, I'm not hit very often unless in a guild war or something like that. But every time one of those anticipated double xp events come around, the prestige hitters come out of the woodwork. And since I'm a pvp player, many of them seem to think I won't have an issue with being hit. That's not the case, and I use the methods available in the game to make that point very clear.

 

How would you go about discouraging a persistent prestige hitter? Or is your advice to sit back and deal with it because it's really no big deal? 


 



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