New mage vial, this time with numbers!
#1
Posted 15 May 2010 - 21:37
So, Damage, at level 57 280- 457 141-459 538, average of 458 339 per ap., or 449 172 if you want to take away the 2% miss
UriahHeap, casting at 50%- 661 246- 806 718, average of 366 991 per ap This may be improved a bit to an average of 379 005 per ap if I were to cast at 98%
I hope I don't have explain to anyone being purposefully dense that casting spells at 50%
means you only do damage every second time on average, but I have the math prepared for that, if required.
Now, I could tell you a bunch of other crap that would paint this in a worse light still, but the simple fact is that my mage at 57K does not quite 85% of the damage my warrior does. So, spare me the stories about how someone that used to play told you mages do more damage, or how your 3K mage alt kills your 5K warrior at PvP. Don't tell me that if I just hang on another 40K levels, I'll get some new great vial that will solve all my problem, even though it has a damage boost that is insufficient at level 50 K.
In this light, I am suggesting a vial that has 1700% hp (why not), 4250% mana (like way, way before), 350% defence (every hunting realm is PvP after 6500) and 500% magic damage, and that it be available for all levels like the Aeon, and dropped by, say Aquilian mages.
#2
Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:31
#3
Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:58
#4
Posted 16 May 2010 - 03:37
Alright, so my warrior alt finally passed me, and I came back to whine some more about the imbalance between warrior and mage damage. Both my warrior alt and myself used Aeon Vials. The warrior numbers I get from the damage as listed on the screen, the mage numbers are derived from casting a holy spell against celio warriors (50% resistance). I only killed a handful, but that took a few hundred successful casts, and give there is no mana shrine in the realm :roll: , I cut out after that. The numbers shown will either be the highest or lowest mana surge seen, or double the highest and lowest damage if it went against resistance.
So, Damage, at level 57 280- 457 141-459 538, average of 458 339 per ap., or 449 172 if you want to take away the 2% miss
UriahHeap, casting at 50%- 661 246- 806 718, average of 366 991 per ap This may be improved a bit to an average of 379 005 per ap if I were to cast at 98%
I hope I don't have explain to anyone being purposefully dense that casting spells at 50%
means you only do damage every second time on average, but I have the math prepared for that, if required.
Now, I could tell you a bunch of other crap that would paint this in a worse light still, but the simple fact is that my mage at 57K does not quite 85% of the damage my warrior does. So, spare me the stories about how someone that used to play told you mages do more damage, or how your 3K mage alt kills your 5K warrior at PvP. Don't tell me that if I just hang on another 40K levels, I'll get some new great vial that will solve all my problem, even though it has a damage boost that is insufficient at level 50 K.
In this light, I am suggesting a vial that has 1700% hp (why not), 4250% mana (like way, way before), 350% defence (every hunting realm is PvP after 6500) and 500% magic damage, and that it be available for all levels like the Aeon, and dropped by, say Aquilian mages.
its funny you complain about a warrior smaller then your mage having more dmg, yet my mage is 56k and does more dmg then my 100k warrior does rather it be vialed or not, vialed my warrior does a lil over 600k and that is with no ac on whatever he is hitting at lvl 118k+ my 56k mage does 650-700k dmg with sorcery with a wisdom lvl that is about 2/3rd's of what it should be, and with 25 percent resistance, and you having a problem killing warriors its because the way you built your char, my mage doesnt seem to have any trouble killing a warrior at all, at least not if that warrior is not 40-60k lvls above him, i know thats impossible and it should be, by no means should any mage be able to kill a *******ing warrior even 20k lvls bigger. as for stories of someone told me this that and the other about a mage doing more dmg, i have a *******ing mage it is my main and it is right behind your mage, i know what a mage does for dmg, and your wisdom is far greater then mine so you should be doing a lot more dmg so quit your you damn whining, you got your vial or close to what you wanted, now work for the ability to get it and use it or quit as you have shown quite often you can do. as for your issues with a 3k mage killing a 5k warrior, you know thats just ludicrus at that lvl my miner at 2k could stand a chance of killing a warrior, and whats funnier, ask pyroc and a few others that were paying attention when i was that small, my mage was 5k and killed pyroc when he was 62k. talk about fair, yeah my mage was vialed and pyroc was not but even then it shoulnt have been possible. and he even had 98 res on when it was done. as for your newly aquirred suggestion placed above, every hunting realm is pvp as iago likes to say he wants it to remain competitive, just because its pvp doesnt mean you need a def boost, quit putting so much into def and start putting it into hp. as for dropping this so called suggestion from aquilans, that still doesnt make it viable of everyone to get unless they wish to pay for them, because its still restricted to 35k, you just want it there so you can get it easy instead of working to get the one you got.
Wah, wah, please delete. Same ol' "well, mage does more damage than me" argument, forgetting that it is only every second ap that mage damage gets done, coupled with stories of low level, insignificant alts. Exactly my target ignorants/ obfuscants.
#5
Posted 16 May 2010 - 04:09
#6
Posted 16 May 2010 - 04:12
#7
Posted 16 May 2010 - 04:23
obsurd?
![]()
Yeah...that didn't look right. LOL. But give him a break, its a saturday and if he's like me he's a drunken mess.
For the record is it absurd?
#8
Posted 16 May 2010 - 13:06
i know if i can do so much dmg with 25 percent res then you can do at least 200k more dmg with 25 percent res. once again i shall repeat myself reread the post a few times until something hits you then shut up and read it again because you still dont comprehend what is being said in the post if you did you wouldnt be coming back with rediculous antics about mages needing this much of this and this and this, mages dont really need anything except smarter people running them, or someone who has enough common sense to put lvls where they need be.
Sure, I can do 200K damage more if I turn the monster, or if I could find anything pre-turned. :roll: Is that what you're doing with your mage's damage?
I didn't put those numbers in, becuase I didn't add critical hit into the damage calculation for my elf, and although it may surprise you in the current environment, some people play warriors that aren't elves. A demon or undead or whatever other warrior at level 57K could also do 450K per hit, multiplied by 1.25 for the turn skill.
Please tell me we didn't need a half dozen posts because you're considering turned damage.
#9
Posted 16 May 2010 - 15:49
Alright, so my warrior alt finally passed me, and I came back to whine some more about the imbalance between warrior and mage damage. Both my warrior alt and myself used Aeon Vials. The warrior numbers I get from the damage as listed on the screen, the mage numbers are derived from casting a holy spell against celio warriors (50% resistance). I only killed a handful, but that took a few hundred successful casts, and give there is no mana shrine in the realm :roll: , I cut out after that. The numbers shown will either be the highest or lowest mana surge seen, or double the highest and lowest damage if it went against resistance.
So, Damage, at level 57 280- 457 141-459 538, average of 458 339 per ap., or 449 172 if you want to take away the 2% miss
UriahHeap, casting at 50%- 661 246- 806 718, average of 366 991 per ap This may be improved a bit to an average of 379 005 per ap if I were to cast at 98%
I hope I don't have explain to anyone being purposefully dense that casting spells at 50%
means you only do damage every second time on average, but I have the math prepared for that, if required.
Now, I could tell you a bunch of other crap that would paint this in a worse light still, but the simple fact is that my mage at 57K does not quite 85% of the damage my warrior does. So, spare me the stories about how someone that used to play told you mages do more damage, or how your 3K mage alt kills your 5K warrior at PvP. Don't tell me that if I just hang on another 40K levels, I'll get some new great vial that will solve all my problem, even though it has a damage boost that is insufficient at level 50 K.
In this light, I am suggesting a vial that has 1700% hp (why not), 4250% mana (like way, way before), 350% defence (every hunting realm is PvP after 6500) and 500% magic damage, and that it be available for all levels like the Aeon, and dropped by, say Aquilian mages.
Can you post Damage's stats? Because honestly you could just have him fully loaded in damage points with nothing but crap for attack, AC, and hp. Therefore skewing your results. I'm not knocking your results. It's just important to know how you've built your warrior before comparing his damage to a mage.
You say to not bring up the past, but mages of old DID do more damage than warriors at the same level. That's irrelevant though in the conversation. Warriors range in strength depending on how you allocate their points, just like mages vary in strength depending on your wisdom and level. There are definitely warriors at level 57k that are much weaker than your alt, just to inform you.
With all this said, it appears that mages have forgotten a simple fact that has been well known since day 1 of the warrior, mage, and miner subclasses coming out. Warriors take the least amount of AP to build and they level faster. Mages take tons of AP to build, level slow, but always had a bigger payoff at higher levels (and yes GmbH was nearly impossible to kill for a long time). Somewhere along the line mages got tired of spending all that AP to keep up, and yes many of the new vials were geared towards warriors. Please, Iago, by all means give them a shiny new vial to help them keep up, but don't ever expect to be able to level as fast as warriors because that's never going to change.
#10
Posted 16 May 2010 - 18:22
Can you post Damage's stats? Because honestly you could just have him fully loaded in damage points with nothing but crap for attack, AC, and hp. Therefore skewing your results. I'm not knocking your results. It's just important to know how you've built your warrior before comparing his damage to a mage.
You say to not bring up the past, but mages of old DID do more damage than warriors at the same level. That's irrelevant though in the conversation. Warriors range in strength depending on how you allocate their points, just like mages vary in strength depending on your wisdom and level. There are definitely warriors at level 57k that are much weaker than your alt, just to inform you.
On an aeon vial, Damage looks like this at 62K:
Attack: 15920 (+7835) Defence: 4423 (+4120)
AC: 15690 (+3125) DMG: 501715-504113 (+10885)
HP: 21693
The stats were the same except for the damage at 57K. I have full rock skin but no constitution. The attack and ac will be a little lower than a comparable warrior because I have claws and phantasmis instead of current invasion items.
With all this said, it appears that mages have forgotten a simple fact that has been well known since day 1 of the warrior, mage, and miner subclasses coming out. Warriors take the least amount of AP to build and they level faster. Mages take tons of AP to build, level slow, but always had a bigger payoff at higher levels (and yes GmbH was nearly impossible to kill for a long time). Somewhere along the line mages got tired of spending all that AP to keep up, and yes many of the new vials were geared towards warriors. Please, Iago, by all means give them a shiny new vial to help them keep up, but don't ever expect to be able to level as fast as warriors because that's never going to change
Maybe Damage is a bit lopsided, with 90% of level ups into damage. What would a warrior that had to worry about HP have, 80%, maybe 75% damage? Correct me if I'm wrong, but let's try 75%. So, at 57K, you easily get 200 levels/USP. At 75% into damage, that gives 150 points, each worth 8.5 damage after the vial is considered. So, the average warrior gets an extra 1275 damage per usp now, around the 57K mark. I need 46 wisdom on an aeon vial to get this, against no resistances. So, if I naturally get 6 from the hunt, that would mean I'd have to trog another six usps to keep up. I think that is too much to expect, and I'm sure I'm being conservative on the percentage into damage and the levels per USP. Besides, the old advantages mages had over warriors are long gone, so there is no incentive to put a little extra ap in.
I just wanted some playability now, in the hopes things might change, or I get over my distaste for warriors enough to enjoy playing one.
#11
Posted 16 May 2010 - 19:06
#12
Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:22
Can you post Damage's stats? Because honestly you could just have him fully loaded in damage points with nothing but crap for attack, AC, and hp. Therefore skewing your results. I'm not knocking your results. It's just important to know how you've built your warrior before comparing his damage to a mage.
You say to not bring up the past, but mages of old DID do more damage than warriors at the same level. That's irrelevant though in the conversation. Warriors range in strength depending on how you allocate their points, just like mages vary in strength depending on your wisdom and level. There are definitely warriors at level 57k that are much weaker than your alt, just to inform you.
On an aeon vial, Damage looks like this at 62K:
Attack: 15920 (+7835) Defence: 4423 (+4120)
AC: 15690 (+3125) DMG: 501715-504113 (+10885)
HP: 21693
The stats were the same except for the damage at 57K. I have full rock skin but no constitution. The attack and ac will be a little lower than a comparable warrior because I have claws and phantasmis instead of current invasion items.With all this said, it appears that mages have forgotten a simple fact that has been well known since day 1 of the warrior, mage, and miner subclasses coming out. Warriors take the least amount of AP to build and they level faster. Mages take tons of AP to build, level slow, but always had a bigger payoff at higher levels (and yes GmbH was nearly impossible to kill for a long time). Somewhere along the line mages got tired of spending all that AP to keep up, and yes many of the new vials were geared towards warriors. Please, Iago, by all means give them a shiny new vial to help them keep up, but don't ever expect to be able to level as fast as warriors because that's never going to change
Maybe Damage is a bit lopsided, with 90% of level ups into damage. What would a warrior that had to worry about HP have, 80%, maybe 75% damage? Correct me if I'm wrong, but let's try 75%. So, at 57K, you easily get 200 levels/USP. At 75% into damage, that gives 150 points, each worth 8.5 damage after the vial is considered. So, the average warrior gets an extra 1275 damage per usp now, around the 57K mark. I need 46 wisdom on an aeon vial to get this, against no resistances. So, if I naturally get 6 from the hunt, that would mean I'd have to trog another six usps to keep up. I think that is too much to expect, and I'm sure I'm being conservative on the percentage into damage and the levels per USP. Besides, the old advantages mages had over warriors are long gone, so there is no incentive to put a little extra ap in.
I just wanted some playability now, in the hopes things might change, or I get over my distaste for warriors enough to enjoy playing one.
I have 63.6% of my points into damage and I'm the #3 top warrior.
#13
Posted 18 May 2010 - 11:05
I have 63.6% of my points into damage and I'm the #3 top warrior.
In that case, you'd be getting an extra 1081 damage per USP at my level. That means I need 39 wisdom to be comparable, less six for what I would get hunting, so I only need trog five extra USP for the one I use hunting to keep up with your build.
#14
Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:17
I have 63.6% of my points into damage and I'm the #3 top warrior.
In that case, you'd be getting an extra 1081 damage per USP at my level. That means I need 39 wisdom to be comparable, less six for what I would get hunting, so I only need trog five extra USP for the one I use hunting to keep up with your build.
Hasn't it always been that way?
#15
Posted 18 May 2010 - 20:24
I have 63.6% of my points into damage and I'm the #3 top warrior.
In that case, you'd be getting an extra 1081 damage per USP at my level. That means I need 39 wisdom to be comparable, less six for what I would get hunting, so I only need trog five extra USP for the one I use hunting to keep up with your build.
Hasn't it always been that way?
Well, yes, but not to that extent. Consider the facts that make it worse now than ever:
1. You are able to pull in 200-300 levels per USP hunting creatures now, if you're 35K and can two-hit darkwater corsair.
2. The vials in use presently have +580% warrior type damage.
Go back to a PRE that had +60% damage, and the times when you were getting 70 levels per USP. You could put 45 level ups into damage at 63.6%, which would have been 93 damage on the PRE. If I were to get the same six wisdom per USP, that would be 66 damage at 50% casting, or 33 average per AP, or 37 damage on a MMB. So, for each one I'd hunt with those vials and levels per USP, I would need to use "only" one and a half more to keep my damage equal.
The farther back you go, the narrower the gap becomes, becuase people just weren't getting as many levels per USP, but the wisdom xp was about the same. Now, the combination of the easy xp and the vials to pump the stats way, way up makes the disparity greater than ever.
Another thing that made a difference "way back when" was that there were creatures designed for both warriors and mages, so mages might still be able to level comparably without doing the same damage. The days of posting omnis are long over, so who am I to care if you do three times my damage, as long as we both level 200 per USP? Now, what will happen if a mage gets to the contorted titans, manglers and eels? Throw the first two out the window right away, 75% resistances. The eels have something like 12%, so mages would be hunting that. My elf, should he get that far, would have in excess of 700K damage at that point, but for any warrior with 700K damage, the AC on eels is like 2.5% resistance. So, not only will a mage have much less damage than a comparably leveled warrior, he would have to do 9% more damage than the warrior to level the same way on eels.
#16
Posted 18 May 2010 - 21:35
#17
Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:54
omg i just realized why im no good at this game....i forgot to bring my calculator :x
And that is what attracted me most about this game. Warriors hit for "x" amount, day in, day out. As a mage, you could hit something for "x", something else for "y", maybe the resistances made "y" more attractive than "x", but maybe only from wisdom "z" to "a". Time for a square spell, or maybe cast at 59% instead of 50%?
Now, everyone gets the same vial, hunts the same thing. You could make a guide for new warriors, and tell them exactly what to hunt level by level, and what to equip. How would you like that, I wonder, as a new player? At least mages have a bit of nuance available. Or would, with +350 defence, +500 wisdom, +4250 MP and +1750 HP. :wink:
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

