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What DON'T you like about PvP?


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#41 Raku

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 21:08

Please don't think of yourself as a bully, ever! Those of us who know you know that you are the antithesis of what a bully is considered. You know it. Please don't let it bother you. Also don't stoop to any idiot's level because they suck. Here, it's mostly at playing this game, and the only resolve they have is to start whining. It's ironic, I know, but people who try to intimidate through threats, trash talk, and name calling are they themselves the bullies. These idiots have an inferiority complex who think their power comes from the trash they talk. It's why we have always dealt with them the way we do and will continue to do so!

I can agree, but find it a bit hypocritical when some of your actions are virtually doing the same thing. Yet you claim to not be a bully.



#42 sweetlou

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 22:42

I can agree, but find it a bit hypocritical when some of your actions are virtually doing the same thing. Yet you claim to not be a bully.

Excuse me. Why would you call me a bully then? What have I done to you? What actions are you referring to?

 

So far you are the epitome to whom I refer!


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#43 Rocknoor

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:14

Although I did not start this thread, I would really appreciate it if we could all stay on topic.  We've all somewhat hijacked the thread in a manner that frequently happens can we go back to the topic of "What DON'T you like about PvP".  Thanks all.


 


#44 wil72

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:14

How game mechanics allow for disproportionate action to be taken. Remove this, then you remove so called bullying. How to to do it fairly/correctly, now that's another question.

 

Cheers.

 

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#45 pinkdude

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:25

And your aggrieved bad attitude against PvPers is precisely why you think you have a problem. You don't. Just play the game. You alluded to the fact that I had previously done something egregious to your character. I haven't done anything against anyone that is illegal by the game's rules. Whatever happened to you(or your guild), you probably earned it. I don't have to justify my game play. I didn't design this game. I would drop you or anyone else I wanted to drop by myself if I could. I can't. The game mechanics don't allow it. You're complaining about the semantics of the term PvP instead of learning to play it.

 

I am not in a gang, I am in a guild. Get it straight!! Stop using offensive terms. I protect and defend players who are in my guild and also allies/friends outside my guild. Why don't you? Why doesn't your guild protect you? Does your moral compass prevent you, or is it that you or your guild are incapable? Or maybe both? That is not my fault, but yours. I am not a bully! I am an affective PvPer who has played the game for years. I will continue to drop anyone I want for any reason I want without harassing them. Maybe if an aggrieved player like yourself stops putting themselves into positions of vulnerability, aka attacking others, they can stop feeling the victim. Yes, that is how the game mechanics continue to work.

This is why I'm not a fan of PvP in its current state. So only a select few can participate in PvP? All others should stop attacking because then they will become the victim? 

 

What do you suggest they do when they are attacked? Just accept it and try to outlevel their attacker? Because, afterall, they wouldn't want to put themselves in a position of vulnerability by attacking.

 

Those who take pride in their smashes are almost as big of a farce as PvP as a whole. I am not referencing all those who take pride, just those that are well connected and have large amounts of players for backup.

 

"Well it's not my fault I make friends. Maybe you should make friends to defend you" <---- A very common statement I see on these PvP threads. And frankly, I am dumbfounded by its popularity among PvPers. I have friends on this game and I'm sure other Non-PvPers do as well. "Why don't you get them to defend you?" I could. But its frivolous. My friends and I "care" about levels. It doesn't do us any good to gang up and attack the PvPers. The PvPers lose XP (that they don't care about) and now they can drop me and my friends all 5 levels (that we care about). I might as well just tough it out and hope it stops. 

 

"Theres PvP Protection. Why don't you just purchase it?" PvP Protection is expensive. Not everyone has the funds to protect themselves while they try to outlevel their attacker. imo, its the FS version of extortion. I am paying gold to protect myself from PvPers. Doesn't sound quite right to me, but I'll accept it as the alternative is being constantly attacked. 

 

 

There is a gang of PvPers (Gang is defined as a "group or band") that control PvP. They are essentially untouchable. Players are taught from a low level to never attack X guild or Y player because they will be constantly harassed by his/her friends. How is this a conducive environment to encourage those to PvP? Why would I want to participate in PvP if I can't target certain players because of their social rank? This is why, imo, PvP is dead. 

 

Until this PvP oligarchy can be controlled or removed I do not think PvP will ever thrive. 


Edited by pinkdude, 14 February 2015 - 23:32.


#46 justinian9

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:26

What I dont like about PvP?  It (ladder)  uses too much stamina to play... the buffs and 100 stamina hits i can only play for a few days at a time if I want stamina for other parts of the game.  I guess this would be my complaint about most aspects in the game... so much to do and so little stamina gain.

 

I have not been at full stamina since before the Christmas event

 


Edited by justinian9, 14 February 2015 - 23:26.


#47 Rocknoor

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:49

Want to fix the  ladder? Try ladder lasts between 1-2 hours, hits every 2 minutes instead of 1 an hour. Max of 12 participants, 25% guild rule like arena.  Saves on buffs and it's true PvP. I guess that's a topic for a different thread though:)


 


#48 sweetlou

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:55

Want to fix the  ladder? Try ladder lasts between 1-2 hours, hits every 2 minutes instead of 1 an hour. Max of 12 participants, 25% guild rule like arena.  Saves on buffs and it's true PvP. I guess that's a topic for a different thread though:)

That's the best thing I've ever seen you write. Wallah, there is hope. You've got good ideas. Use them instead of all that other crude pointing fingers you write.


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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#49 Rocknoor

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 00:50

That last sentence was so unnecessary but then as they say a "leopard can't change it's spots.":(


 


#50 Calista

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 01:33

Things I don't like about PvP...

People complaining that 'PvP' players are untouchable. Every last one of you has the option to do ANYTHING that any other player does. Take my guild for example. More then half the guild is made up of non pvp players. When one if them is hit, our PvP players step up and defend them. No one has to PvP unless they want too and they are still protected aggressively. Why is it the PvP players fault if not everyone has the same support from their guild?

People assuming PvP players as a whole don't care about their levels. My PvP sets are important and I depend on them when bounty hunting or whatever. Losing levels makes me have to pay attention that they remain valuable. I just look at levels as a little more fluid then set in stone. 50 levels one way or another isn't a big deal. But it still matters.

So many blame the PvP players for the game decline. We were always the minority. And we told you from the start to leave PvP alone. But nooooo, people wanted it make nicer. Only you figured out that changes didn't give the non pvp'ers the upper hand so it's never good enough.

 


#51 Raku

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 01:39

Excuse me. Why would you call me a bully then? What have I done to you? What actions are you referring to?

 

So far you are the epitome to whom I refer!

Bully: uses superior strength or influence to intimidate someone, typically to force them to do what one wants. 

 

I doubt I need go into the various forms. Just because something is legal within the confines of the game doesn't change the fact of it being bullying. As I said your actions speak for themselves.  Claiming innocence or ignorance still doesn't change the nature of actions performed in said manner.  

 

What have you done to me? 

Nothing. I also have no grudges against you, anyone in your guild, or anyone in the game. I'm just tired of players claiming innocence when their actions clearly say otherwise.(this goes for both sides)

 

As for being the epitome of whom you refer. 

Not once have I tried to intimidate anyone through threats, trash talk, or name calling. Nor do I have some inferiority complex and feel empowered by trash talking. So how this fits I don't know. But hey, if that's how you feel so be it. 

 

Edit: as per others wishes I will stick to the topic at hand.


Edited by Raku, 15 February 2015 - 01:47.


#52 RebornJedi

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 01:48

*waves hand* You all want to be constructive...


 


#53 pinkdude

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 01:52

 

 

Things I don't like about PvP...

People complaining that 'PvP' players are untouchable. Every last one of you has the option to do ANYTHING that any other player does. Take my guild for example. More then half the guild is made up of non pvp players. When one if them is hit, our PvP players step up and defend them. No one has to PvP unless they want too and they are still protected aggressively. Why is it the PvP players fault if not everyone has the same support from their guild?
 

 

 

"Well it's not my fault I make friends. Maybe you should make friends to defend you" <---- A very common statement I see on these PvP threads. And frankly, I am dumbfounded by its popularity among PvPers. I have friends on this game and I'm sure other Non-PvPers do as well. "Why don't you get them to defend you?" I could. But its frivolous. My friends and I "care" about levels. It doesn't do us any good to gang up and attack the PvPers. The PvPers lose XP (that they don't care about) and now they can drop me and my friends all 5 levels (that we care about). I might as well just tough it out and hope it stops. 

 

Yes. Everyone has the option to attack the untouchables, but why would they? They will be obliterated. Simple as that. I'm a little curious as to why the sudden push for more PvP activity. Perhaps the only PvPers left are the untouchables... I'm not complaining (well, maybe a little bit). But I'm speaking from experience. I remember being taught that certain guilds and players were off limits, lest I desire to be Deleveled out of the game. 

 

 

Anyways. As long as there are bands of PvP players who "have eachother's back", I don't think PvP can thrive. Unfortunately, I do not have any suggestions on how to fix this problem. Furthermore, I don't see the fun in randomly attacking people. Is it fun to equip a hodgepodge of gear and buffs to attack offline players with malicious intent? Maybe if I understood where the fun in PvP is, I could better contribute to the discussion of improving it. 

 

 

EDIT: After being mind controlled by the Jedi I will refrain from posting unless constructive (or absolutely necessary. Gotta always leave in a backup clause)

 

In conclusion. The current PvP system is broken.  It needs to be fixed. 


Edited by pinkdude, 15 February 2015 - 01:54.


#54 RebornJedi

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 02:09

they aren't untouchable.. you just shouldn't touch them if you don't want to be touched by multiple players...

 

the resources and dedication needed to stand up to some of the top PvP guilds is usually out of range from enjoying the game and just the outcome from it.. what does one or others benefit from going to war with a guild... with how little PvP is used nowadays, any PvPer is hungry for action.. but why not.. its dry out there..

 

Anyways. As long as there are bands of PvP players who "have eachother's back", I don't think PvP can thrive.

 

PvP would thrive if non PvPers became PvPers to have the non PvPers' back.. just depends on how big of an alliance that group could get... and how long they are willing to go with whatever it takes..


 


#55 RebornJedi

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 02:11

i think that has to go with what type of sacrifices and riskcs one could take from just making a single PvP attack.. something that probably just took a some chunk of gold and destroyed 1-10% of someone's level..


 


#56 Rocknoor

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 02:14

Calista, you know I respect your game play and consider you a good friend but I respectfully disagree with your last post.  What I really don't like about PvP are the changes made to it.  PvP is no longer and integral part of the game, remember when in order to start some quests you actually had to have a certain PvP rank...that's gone. In years past the game had balance in the PvP world, there were numerous powerful PvP guilds like The Evil Dead, now overly dominant, The Warrior Kings, now a shell of itself, Panic, completely gone and other strong PvP guilds now gone or a shell of themselves.  This occurred because of changes to PvP that drove many players to seek other games to play and leave FS.  Gone are the days of 4-5 pages of bounties on the Bounty Board, gone is the dancing that used to occur in Bounties, gone are the numerous friendships made in PvP that have since left for other venues. I contend that the slow demise of FS is because of the detrimental changes to PvP and not because of PvP itself.  There used to be 2000 players on line spread between level 1 and 1000, ample targets for PvP'ers now there are 400 players on line spread between level 1 and almost 2500.  PvP'ers now have fewer targets in their +/- 10 range and so appear more aggressive when in fact their pool of targets has diminished 20 fold making them appear bloodthirsty because of the need to hit the same players over and over because of their love of PvP. PvP is an intergral part of FS, without it this game would be completely boring. So in closing what I don't like most about PvP are the knee jerk reactionary changes to PvP by HCS leadership that fundamentally didn't understand the importance of PvP to the FS community and gutted it for what they thought were valid,  but as we have since found out, misguided reasons.


Edited by Rocknoor, 15 February 2015 - 02:15.

 


#57 sweetlou

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 02:34

Bully: uses superior strength or influence to intimidate someone, typically to force them to do what one wants. 

 

I doubt I need go into the various forms. Just because something is legal within the confines of the game doesn't change the fact of it being bullying. As I said your actions speak for themselves.  Claiming innocence or ignorance still doesn't change the nature of actions performed in said manner.  

 

What have you done to me? 

Nothing. I also have no grudges against you, anyone in your guild, or anyone in the game. I'm just tired of players claiming innocence when their actions clearly say otherwise.(this goes for both sides)

 

As for being the epitome of whom you refer. 

Not once have I tried to intimidate anyone through threats, trash talk, or name calling. Nor do I have some inferiority complex and feel empowered by trash talking. So how this fits I don't know. But hey, if that's how you feel so be it. 

 

Edit: as per others wishes I will stick to the topic at hand.

I just love the argument for argument's sake...

 

So let me take this point by point as you did. #1 - I'm the bully...

 

How do I have superior strength? What strength? Do I have a more supportive guild and allies? If so, that makes me a bully? Then there must be lots of bullies in this game, right? I have the exact same access to tools in the game as any other player. If you claim I have a higher level, hogwash. I'm not even close to the EOC. What am I trying to force someone/anyone to do? NOTHING. Please name what it is I am doing? I AM PLAYING A GAME where other players meet to do the same!

 

Can you admit that you can't PvP because you don't have the ability nor the support and THAT is what makes you so bitter about this PvP topic?

 

#2 - So I haven't done anything to you? NOTHING? In my innocence I am, always have, and always will defend myself with saying I don't need to justify my approved game playing actions to you or any other player. PROVE that I've done something wrong and I will gladly walk away from the game immediately!

 

#3 You don't call your recent forum posts name calling? Calling me a bully? What do you call it besides libelous? Is it friendly banter? Because I'm not laughing. I do call it trash talk and simply poor arguing.

 

You may not be in a superior position to me nor have any influence over me because I'm an adult and won't let you push me around with silly words and childish whining. Leave me alone to play the game. I really don't have any opposition to players trying to improve the game in their manner. Please don't do it by jumping all over other players! It's insulting and demeaning.


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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#58 Pardoux

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 03:05

Funny how this thread has devolved SO far from the title of the thread, where players were asked to list

 

 

WHAT DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT PVP

 

Players are listing what they don't like, and the pvp'rs are hijacking the thread saying "man up", "defend yourself" yada yada yada - but are the players here saying why they don't like pvp hijacking the

 

WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT PVP

 

thread ? NO

 

How about those that LIKE pvp list their reasons in the correct thread, and leave those with negative feelings about it to list them here without interference ?


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#59 sweetlou

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 03:08

PvP would thrive if non PvPers became PvPers to have the non PvPers' back.. just depends on how big of an alliance that group could get... and how long they are willing to go with whatever it takes..

Ahh, the old days. When some players actually had the cojones. We're missing the cheese and crackers these days.


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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#60 yotekiller

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 04:21

Yes. Everyone has the option to attack the untouchables, but why would they? They will be obliterated. Simple as that. I'm a little curious as to why the sudden push for more PvP activity. Perhaps the only PvPers left are the untouchables... I'm not complaining (well, maybe a little bit). But I'm speaking from experience. I remember being taught that certain guilds and players were off limits, lest I desire to be Deleveled out of the game. 

 

(stuff)

Have you considered that you were taught wrong?  I keep hearing about these so-called "untouchable" players and/or guilds.  Why don't you take the time to learn for yourself what pvp'ers are really all about.  I did.  I have only been in my current guild, which seems to catch a lot of flak, for a few months.  Prior to that, I was in leveling focused guilds.  I dabbled in pvp but my main focus was leveling.  One day I realized that I could never buy my way to the top and no matter how hard I tried, I would never be able to outpace the rich players that could.  Leveling had grown tiresome and now it seemed there was little left for me to strive for.  What to do?

  I decided to take a year off from leveling and explore all aspects of the pvp realm.  What I found re-invigorated my interest in the game.  I am by no means a pvp expert but I learned a lot.  Sometimes from advice and sometimes from the school of hard knocks but always with an effort to improve my skills.  I also took pride in never being intimidated by anyone's "reputation" (aka a bunch of rumors).  Guess what?  I wasn't de-leveled out of the game but I did make a lot of new friends and came to find out who the real pvp'ers were and who wasn't.

  During my expreiment I came to realize that levels come and go.  They are just numbers and all the importance I had placed on them as a leveler now seemed more than a little OCD and irrational.  What really matters in this game are the friendships.  What difference does it make if I am the highest player, the richest player or #1 anything else in a virtual world (that means not real life) if I have no friends to enjoy it with?  Yes, levelers can make friends but the pvp'ers are the ones that really come together and interact with each other on a regular basis.  I have returned to leveling some but pvp continues to keep the game fresh and interesting.

  Here are a few tips for anyone else that would like to try their hand at pvp.  For most these are common sense but there are always some that don't get it so here goes.  Always be respectful in your communications, just as you (hopefully) would communicate with people in real life.  Nothing gets people crossways faster than trash talk.  You wouldn't say those things to people you meet in real life, don't say them here.  Ask questions.  Pvp'ers are a friendly bunch and enjoy helping others learn about that aspect of the game.  Clear people on the bounty board.  Occasionally some jerk will counter bounty you for a 10 stam clear but you'll quickly learn who they are and clear them with 100's the next time.  Most people really do appreciate an honest 10 stam clear so just jump in there and do it.  Want to try your hand at "safe" pvp first?  Participate in gvg's where you will learn about gear and buffs.  Most importantly, have fun and enjoy the experience.


Edited by yotekiller, 15 February 2015 - 04:34.

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