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please extend pvp attack range


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Poll: should the pvp range be extended (130 member(s) have cast votes)

should the pvp range be extended

  1. no (79 votes [60.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.77%

  2. yes (51 votes [39.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.23%

Vote

#181 Gooner111

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 02:40

If opening up the levels for pvpers is as suggested fair and evolving with the game, then reducing the cost of pvp protection is fair for levellers.

Leave xp loss as is for those without protection. Leave gold hitting as is - gold on hand should always be open season. Make pvp protection cheaper and leave it only protecting xp.

I don't see how range increase will result in more pvp since those that pvp generally do so already....just less targets at the moment. Wider range may increase board activity again but would imagine on gold hits only. If protection becomes much cheaper then pretty much every non pvp player can afford it thus losing xp won't be issue.

#182 BadPenny

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:02

If opening up the levels for pvpers is as suggested fair and evolving with the game, then reducing the cost of pvp protection is fair for levellers.

Leave xp loss as is for those without protection. Leave gold hitting as is - gold on hand should always be open season. Make pvp protection cheaper and leave it only protecting xp.

I don't see how range increase will result in more pvp since those that pvp generally do so already....just less targets at the moment. Wider range may increase board activity again but would imagine on gold hits only. If protection becomes much cheaper then pretty much every non pvp player can afford it thus losing xp won't be issue.

I don't think this is a bad idea at all... but PvP protection is already cheap, however, for those at the higher levels, where the ranges would open up.  This wouldn't really change anything for the lower levels, their ranges would remain unchanged.  You know, I don't even want this for me , but for my peers, who ground out their levels, and simply want a true PvP playing field.  I feel they deserve that.  I still don't get what the big deal is about a tiny change.  I don't know why I even waste my breath anymore talking to some of you people.  Before you react, read what I just said about 5 times, to make sure you understand me.    


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#183 yotwehc

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:18

I don't think this is a bad idea at all... but PvP protection is already cheap, however, for those at the higher levels, where the ranges would open up.  This wouldn't really change anything for the lower levels, their ranges would remain unchanged.  You know, I don't even want this for me , but for my peers, who ground out their levels, and simply want a true PvP playing field.  I feel they deserve that.  I still don't get what the big deal is about a tiny change.  I don't know why I even waste my breath anymore talking to some of you people.  Before you react, read what I just said about 5 times, to make sure you understand me.    

True pvp would be nice. I wonder what your thoughts are on the other folks who ground out their levels? Empathy... then you will know what the big deal is.



#184 ladyjudith

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:03

:P although I have nothing against the extending of the pvp range see that the major vote is no on that so am expecting that  BigGrim will listen to the vote and that things will remain as they are



#185 sweetlou

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:27

Example

Relentless attacks on player A in order to get player A to take action on player B. Player B made some transgression against you. Player A has nothing to do with this transgression. You are now attempting to purposely ruin, harass, destroy, force, intimidate, coerce player A's game in order to get them to do what you want. These attacks on player A are no longer going after gold, prestige, exp, or in good fun.

Sounds like Player A and Player B are in the same guild, correct? If they are they have a guildmate relationship which establishes a responsibility to one another. One's actions likely effect the other. The concept of responsibility for the actions of their guildmates is how guilds operate! Guilds are not stuck with players and players are not bound to guilds. Guildmates do more than give free buffs and share guild gear. If you are ever in a position of feeling harassed because of the actions of one of your guildmates OR FOR ANY REASON you know you are more than encouraged to contact HCS' support at https://www.huntedco...ow.com/support to seek relief and they will handle your ticket on a case-by-case basis.

 

Trigger

Its not about xp or gold. Its about the bully having the continual means and ability to affect players at a mere whim. 

I'm not buying it. You have plenty of methods to avoid being attacked. Sounds like you've had some bitter experiences. The old adage, show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are sounds appropriate here. Sorry but that's the truth from where I sit.

 

 

Your earlier proposal was a joke and you know it. Since you could no longer affect their exp through pvp you wanted them to gain half the amount of a "normal player" and then charge them 150 fsp if they ever wanted to come back to the

"standard game". If "xp is only a number afterall!" why do you want to affect their xp at all? You are the one who chose to take the risk by pvping. So why diminish other players because they chose not to take the risk? Is the risk of losing xp the only thing that places value on it? Did the time and or money I've spent gaining the xp have no value? Now you want to include reduced gold. So is the time and money I've spent leveling and gaining gold worth less then your's simply because you made a choice to pvp and I did not? I am honestly kinda surprised I didn't see reduced stam gain in there as well. The only real compromise I see you offer here is being ineligible to hoard.

If you don't think my proposal was sincere that is your problem. That alone tells me mountains about you as a person. You choose to quarrel over small details and attempt to disparage me and others who disagree with you. So continue complaining, the status quo will continue until you can prove to HCS that change is needed. Until then I will see you continue to want to be treated special, where you want immunity to play and you want it for FREE! Good luck and good day.


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#186 rowbeth

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:54

... but PvP protection is already cheap, however, for those at the higher levels, where the ranges would open up.

It isn't cheap for those at higher levels. As has been pointed out in various threads, one earns less gold per kill at high level than one did at level 310.

 

It is affordable for me, though. That is only because I have maxed the character upgrades that I most wanted (i.e. the ones that help with those levelling goals, which in turn are what keep me active in this game). I suspect that having maxed one's important upgrades has more to do with having played 7 years than it does to being near EOC, though the two are probably not uncorrelated.



#187 sweetlou

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:00

I did say ALMOST ...

 

And, even though I've posted it twice now, you've still to comment on the either/or scenario I've (and Jedi) pointed out whereby...

1. Player A gets hit by Player B. Player A bounties Player B - job done

 

OR

 

2. Player A gets hit by Player B. Player A has a "free" hit back at Player B with no comeback from Player B - and he can choose the time of said hit back.

My apologies for not replying earlier:

 

1. The way it already works. Check. But there are many alternatives as well.

OR

2. Player A gets "free" hit. No thanks. Ain't nothing FREE! Currently we have 5 options and that seems more than enough.

 

Option A: Do nothing. There are a few thoughts on this:

1) I lost xp and/or gold - no big deal

2) If I bounty he might hit again and it will cost me even more to bounty(see below), 

3) Wasn't much xp and/or why was I carrying millions of gold, I goofed and got caught. Don't repeat the mistake. Lesson learned hopefully.

 

Option B: Bounty attacker

1) Results in soft 10 stam clear. BHers happy. Bountied players still lose TWICE the xp per hit on the Bounty Board(Players can now be bountied for EVERY hit, including deflects and losses). One 10 stam clear bounty on a player EQUALS 2 successful 100 stam attacks.

2) The bountied can lose up to 5 levels. This requires 4 other players expending roughly 3400 stam. It's not easy to serve the ultimate punishment. It takes work, coordination, and risk for your fellow player.

3) The bountied can also defend that bounty and after 48 hrs that bounty expires(a mini-mini game). Bountied can win but not easy.

4) A mercenary(ies) can be hired. Bountied will probably lose 5.

 

Option C: Hit back! You receive 10 Prestige, sadly no Stomper points. Some players respect it, some don't. At the end of the game day how do players delevel another player, one that they want to punish? I'm not asking for a reason. Reasons why are immaterial.

 

Its Funny Do we all play a game called Fallensword? The lengths that some people will go to Avoid playing the game is crazy.

 

Option D: Buy PvP protection(or Protect Xp upgrade). PvP Protection for a dot a day is huge and you still get bounty powers! This has costs, some say it's too expensive while others remember a day when it wasn't even available! Gold is NOT protected any longer. This is the cause of much consternation - no easy win button there.

 

Option E: Send Support Ticket here https://www.huntedcow.com/support- this is the proverbial last straw. When a player is completely beaten and continues to be harassed send a ticket asking for relief from the admins. They will give it when appropriate. My view is that depending on circumstances the admins can admonish the wrong side. But hey, live to fight another day.

 

There are a lot of other things that could happen as well that I haven't mentioned, so I'll just make a list:

 

Trash talking - This takes a few forms

1) PMs calling the attacker any number of things. The attacker can also send harassing PMs(see option E).

2) Disparaging comments on FSBox, bio, and in the forum

 

Hit Back and post a bounty - a combination of punishments

 

I might have forgotten a few. These last actions really only serve to escalate the earlier angst. My point is the "free" counter attack proposal doesn't allow for punishment of a player beyond a return hit, and maybe 2x xp loss. This game has cornerstones in animosity between players, don't ask to take it away. Does every one who is deleveled deserve it? No. But I would rather have a couple people lose 5 levels every once in a while that didn't deserve it(in some subjective sense) than to completely take punishment out of the game. You want to fight mano e mano then let's wait for the upcoming PvP tournament update. You can have all the true PvP you want. Until then we have plenty of alternatives to punish or avoid being attacked. When we lose that we would be left with a Sigmastorm2-type game and no matter how cool the graphics are that didn't work for this very reason.


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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#188 BadPenny

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:08

Thank you Lu  :wub: 


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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#189 Pardoux

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:18

My apologies for not replying earlier:

 

1. The way it already works. Check. But there are many alternatives as well.

OR

2. Player A gets "free" hit. No thanks. Ain't nothing FREE! Currently we have 5 options and that seems more than enough.

 

Option A: Do nothing. There are a few thoughts on this:

1) I lost xp and/or gold - no big deal

2) If I bounty he might hit again and it will cost me even more to bounty(see below), 

3) Wasn't much xp and/or why was I carrying millions of gold, I goofed and got caught. Don't repeat the mistake. Lesson learned hopefully.

 

Option B: Bounty attacker

1) Results in soft 10 stam clear. BHers happy. Bountied players still lose TWICE the xp per hit on the Bounty Board(Players can now be bountied for EVERY hit, including deflects and losses). One 10 stam clear bounty on a player EQUALS 2 successful 100 stam attacks.

2) The bountied can lose up to 5 levels. This requires 4 other players expending roughly 3400 stam. It's not easy to serve the ultimate punishment. It takes work, coordination, and risk for your fellow player.

3) The bountied can also defend that bounty and after 48 hrs that bounty expires(a mini-mini game). Bountied can win but not easy.

4) A mercenary(ies) can be hired. Bountied will probably lose 5.

 

Option C: Hit back! You receive 10 Prestige, sadly no Stomper points. Some players respect it, some don't. At the end of the game day how do players delevel another player, one that they want to punish? I'm not asking for a reason. Reasons why are immaterial.

 

 

Option D: Buy PvP protection(or Protect Xp upgrade). PvP Protection for a dot a day is huge and you still get bounty powers! This has costs, some say it's too expensive while others remember a day when it wasn't even available! Gold is NOT protected any longer. This is the cause of much consternation - no easy win button there.

 

Option E: Send Support Ticket here https://www.huntedcow.com/support- this is the proverbial last straw. When a player is completely beaten and continues to be harassed send a ticket asking for relief from the admins. They will give it when appropriate. My view is that depending on circumstances the admins can admonish the wrong side. But hey, live to fight another day.

 

There are a lot of other things that could happen as well that I haven't mentioned, so I'll just make a list:

 

Trash talking - This takes a few forms

1) PMs calling the attacker any number of things. The attacker can also send harassing PMs(see option E).

2) Disparaging comments on FSBox, bio, and in the forum

 

Hit Back and post a bounty - a combination of punishments

 

I might have forgotten a few. These last actions really only serve to escalate the earlier angst. My point is the "free" counter attack proposal doesn't allow for punishment of a player beyond a return hit, and maybe 2x xp loss. This game has cornerstones in animosity between players, don't ask to take it away. Does every one who is deleveled deserve it? No. But I would rather have a couple people lose 5 levels every once in a while that didn't deserve it(in some subjective sense) than to completely take punishment out of the game. You want to fight mano e mano then let's wait for the upcoming PvP tournament update. You can have all the true PvP you want. Until then we have plenty of alternatives to punish or avoid being attacked. When we lose that we would be left with a Sigmastorm2-type game and no matter how cool the graphics are that didn't work for this very reason.

 

OK, yes, I agree there are the 3 of the 5 options you mention available:-

 

1. Do Nothing

2. Bounty

3. Hit Back

 

4. Buying PvP protection doesn't seem to deter folk if you've got gold on hand (which I very seldom have) or if they fail to even notice that you have protection.

 

5. Submit a ticket to the cows - even you admit that's a last straw reaction ...

 

I fail to see why a pvp'r instigating an attack is so averse to the idea of the person (s)he hit, being hitting back risk free ( INSTEAD of bountying the hit). If the attacked player is happy with this being one of his choices, what's the problem ?

 

What am I missing here that makes this suggestion such an anathema ?

 

Oh, hang on, maybe this is the reason ? (speculating here)

 

Player A hits Player B who has upset Player A somehow in the hope of provoking a response. Player B hits back and Player A then bounties Player B and calls a delevelling party. If that's the reason, perhaps have some sort of limitation on the "free hit back" option. (once per player per week or something ?)


Edited by Pardoux, 19 February 2015 - 18:54.

Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#190 Belaric

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:27

Pardoux: "Is it because that initial pvp'r can't then bounty said returner of hit perhaps, or have them delevelled ?"

 

Yes. I'd say that was the reason. 


Edited by Belaric, 19 February 2015 - 07:30.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#191 BadPenny

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:36

You guys are missing the point..... 

 

Let me make it simple for you.... I hit Random Guy A on the find player list.  He gear up and hits me back, gets his 10 prestige... done end of story, maybe I get a nice love note....  Random Guy B posts a bounty.... no problem, I either lose the XP lu said, or I get discovered by Random Smasher medal guy, and lose a level or 2.... no big deal, move on..... Random Guy c hits back  AND posts...AND hires folks to take all 5 of my levels.... this is where things can sometimes escalate and get out of hand.  I can A, do nothing, B bounty all his "friends" and have their levels gone, or C, pound him.  I usually choose option A, but there have been circumstances where I have called upon friends to "bloody a nose" or two.   I have never bountied a prestige hit, and I even got robbed by a guy recently.  I spared him, because he had the temerity to do it in the first place, and I admire that.... That guy got a love note.  


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#192 Pardoux

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:59

You guys are missing the point..... 

 

Let me make it simple for you.... I hit Random Guy A on the find player list.  He gear up and hits me back, gets his 10 prestige... done end of story, maybe I get a nice love note....  Random Guy B posts a bounty.... no problem, I either lose the XP lu said, or I get discovered by Random Smasher medal guy, and lose a level or 2.... no big deal, move on..... Random Guy c hits back  AND posts...AND hires folks to take all 5 of my levels.... this is where things can sometimes escalate and get out of hand.  I can A, do nothing, B bounty all his "friends" and have their levels gone, or C, pound him.  I usually choose option A, but there have been circumstances where I have called upon friends to "bloody a nose" or two.   I have never bountied a prestige hit, and I even got robbed by a guy recently.  I spared him, because he had the temerity to do it in the first place, and I admire that.... That guy got a love note.  

 

But, there's a difference here Penny - some PvP'rs behave with "restraint", others don't - and one cap doesn't fit all unfortunately.


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#193 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:12

All this thread is against the behavior of some PvPers, AND THAT IS NOT THE SUBJECT!

Please, tell me why the Attack Level Range should not be extended, and stop simulating theorical situations, Player A, Player B, PvPers's behavior, Prestige Hits, delevel party, PvP Protection....all that have nothing to do with extending attack level range.



#194 Pardoux

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:17

All this thread is against the behavior of some PvPers, AND THAT IS NOT THE SUBJECT!

Please, tell me why the Attack Level Range should not be extended, and stop simulating theorical situations, Player A, Player B, PvPers's behavior, Prestige Hits, delevel party, PvP Protection....all that have nothing to do with extending attack level range.

 

Actually, they have EVERYTHING to do with it ...

The wider the bracket, the more people become susceptible to all of the above ...


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#195 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:26

Actually, they have EVERYTHING to do with it ...

The wider the bracket, the more people become susceptible to all of the above ...

No, they don't.

Grim already said XP Loss is here to stay.
PvP Protection is already cheap.
You can still report any "bully" action.
Most of those problem occurs on Bounty Board, so attack level range have nothing to do with that matter.
Gold hits will remain too.

So what's the point of all that arguing?
If PvPers can not pratice PvP on all levels, let's create a level range cap for everything in the game, THAT will be fair.
You can only join Arenas 10 +/- of your level.
You can kill Titans 10 +/- of your level.
You can only hunt mobs 10 +/- of your level. (Including SEs, LEs, Resource droppers and Event mobs)

You see, nothing else on the game is so restricted like PvP, why should we accept that PvP'ers can't play the game their own way?
 


Edited by yghorbeviahn, 19 February 2015 - 08:29.


#196 Rocknoor

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:30

All this thread is against the behavior of some PvPers, AND THAT IS NOT THE SUBJECT!

Please, tell me why the Attack Level Range should not be extended, and stop simulating theorical situations, Player A, Player B, PvPers's behavior, Prestige Hits, delevel party, PvP Protection....all that have nothing to do with extending attack level range.

It is the subject, as a PvP'er you are asking all non-PvP'ers to unilaterally  substantially increase their risk of exposure to attacks, but PvP'ers are unwilling to assume any kind of similar risk of exposure to accomodate the non-PvPer's position.  In all the posts by PvP'ers all I've seen is "I WANT MORE" but you are unwilling to give up anything to get that "more". As long as PvP'ers keep advocating a zero-sum position with regard to non-PvP'ers you're going to have push back on this idea of  increasing the attack range.


Edited by Rocknoor, 19 February 2015 - 09:42.

 


#197 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:33

It is the subject, as a PvP'er you are asking all non-PvP'ers to unilaterally  substantially increase their risk of exposure to attacks, but PvP'ers are unwilling to assume any kind of similar risk of exposure to accomodate the non-PvPer's position.  In all the posts by PvP'ers all I've seen is "I WANT MORE" but you are unwilling to give up anything to get that "more". As long as PvP'ers keep advocation a zero-sum position with regard to non-PvP'ers you're going to have push back on this idea of increasing increasing the attack range.

PvP'ers are not asking for more without give up on nothing, each PvPers will have the risk increased too, PvPers are not outside the risk of been hitted by anyone, and anyone who are affraid of losing their XP can buy PvP Protection REALLY cheap, so what's the big problem?



#198 Pardoux

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:34

No, they don't.

Grim already said XP Loss is here to stay.
PvP Protection is already cheap.
You can still report any "bully" action.
Most of those problem occurs on Bounty Board, so attack level range have nothing to do with that matter.
Gold hits will remain too.

So what's the point of all that arguing?
If PvPers can not pratice PvP on all levels, let's create a level range cap for everything in the game, THAT will be fair.
You can only join Arenas 10 +/- of your level.
You can kill Titans 10 +/- of your level.
You can only hunt mobs 10 +/- of your level.

You see, nothing else on the game is so restricted like PvP, why should we accept that PvP'ers can't play the game their own way?
 

 

Arena - players enter that of their own volition, spend gold of their own volition and either win or lose. The only person "stealing" gold from them is the game, in the form of arena fees.

 

Titan hunting - anyone can do it, no-one is a victim during it (other than the poor defenceless titan, of course)

 

Hunting Monsters - they, pretty much always, lose - and any gold lost there is "stolen" by the game as a result of losing the combat.

ALL of those scenarios, the player is READY WILLING AND ABLE to enter that scenario.

 

PvP, however, is very different, as well you know. As a PvP'r, you have the choice of who, when, where and why about who you hit. You can (generic you) be fully buffed up, wearing optimum gear, and hit an offline, unbuffed player. If PvP were "both players agree and decide a date / time", then sure, open it up as widely as you want to - heck, remove ALL restrictions from it - AS LONG AS BOTH PARTIES are in agreement.

 

Widening the range for PvP does, I'll admit, open up new targets for those that PvP - and it makes more players susceptible to being attacked. The vote is (currently) 54 against the idea and 39 for it - so it seems the majority of players (currently) don't want the ranges widening.


Edited by Pardoux, 19 February 2015 - 08:35.

Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#199 Belaric

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:36

I'll give you  a parable to think about.

 

Once there was a lake, deep and wide.

 

Many were the fish that grew there, large and small, quick and darting.

 

Some fish liked to school together, to share what they had learned

 

Some liked  to fight, to show who was strongest,

 

For a long time these fish lived together.

 

But after a time it became clear that to prove who was best, the fighters had to prey upon those who shared.

 

The sharers did not understand the fighters.

 

The fighters had no idea why the sharers had a problem, after all

 

They all had fins.

 

So the fighters fell upon the sharers, expecting a fight back. 

 

They got no fight back. Just corpses in the water.

 

The fighters were confused.

 

The sharers were hurt and sad.

 

Nobody was happy.

 

 

 

 

This is the game we live in. 


Edited by Belaric, 19 February 2015 - 09:53.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#200 Rocknoor

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:42

So what's the point of all that arguing?
If PvPers can not pratice PvP on all levels, let's create a level range cap for everything in the game, THAT will be fair.
You can only join Arenas 10 +/- of your level.
You can kill Titans 10 +/- of your level.
You can only hunt mobs 10 +/- of your level. (Including SEs, LEs, Resource droppers and Event mobs)

You see, nothing else on the game is so restricted like PvP, why should we accept that PvP'ers can't play the game their own way?
 

Everything that you cite is an activity that entails no loss on a player, PvP however is the intentional inflicting of loss by one player on another that is why it is you "can't play it your way". As an attacker you have every advantage, you select the timing of the attack, in your attack you are always better prepared,  and in your attack you inflict damage on another player who had done nothing to you.  Most attacks are done when the target is offline and completely vulnerable and to you that is sporting. You want an increased range come up with something that substantially increases your already nominal risk in an attack on an unsuspecting target.


 



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