Sub-class Tiers
#1
gothador_kitteh666
Posted 18 September 2010 - 00:37
When player choose a class, they begin at Tier 1. Class can be upgraded to tier 3.
Warrior Class tier 1
+25% Min Dmg
+25% Max Dmg
+50% HP
+25% AC
-75% MP
-50% Spell Max Levels
Warrior Class tier 2
+35% Min Dmg
+35% Max Dmg
+60% HP
+35% AC
-65% MP
-40% Spell Max Levels (Any spell levels used to be higher level is now restored)
Warrior Class tier 3
+50% Min Dmg
+50% Max Dmg
+75% HP
+50% AC
-50% MP
-25% Spell Max Levels
Mage Class tier 1
-50% HP
-75% AC
+100% MP
+100% Spell Max Levels
+100% Spell casting Exp
Mage Class tier 2
-40% HP
-65% AC
+110% MP
+110% Spell Max Levels
+110% Spell casting Exp
Mage Class tier 3
-25% HP
-50% AC
+125% MP
+125% Spell Max Levels
+125% Spell casting Exp
Miner Class tier 1
-10% Atk
+50% Def
+200% Mining Lvl
+200% Smelting Lvl
Miner Class tier 2
+0% Atk
+60% Def
+210% Mining Lvl
+210% Smelting Lvl
Miner Class tier 3
+15% Atk
+75% Def
+225% Mining Lvl
+225% Smelting Lvl
#2
Posted 18 September 2010 - 01:11
-Spell Max Levels are only good for teleport. The current Magery has no place in the game vs Sorcery.
-AC is the most useless stat of all. Why have armour when you never get hit?
-The HP, MP, and casting xp bonuses are the most worthwhile. I'd like to see that.
#3
gothador_kitteh666
Posted 18 September 2010 - 01:14
#4
Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:43
#5
gothador_vickieverki
Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:31
Erm... Mages don't use AP and warriors don't need mana... The teleport is the only thing of importance and it serves as a balance so to say. If you add higher damage and a bit more of the dominant stat (def for mages/Ac for warriors) then it would be worthwhile
I use mana when on a long hunt, often have to reload at a mana shrine. A mana boost would be worthwhile to a warrior but only a small one
#6
Posted 19 September 2010 - 16:32
All classes need to make sacrifices to get their +bonus. Its the only way to keep subclasses from being completely over powered.
Warriors sacrifice their spell levels and mp for min/max damage, hp, and ac.
Miners sacrifice their attack for defense, increased mining/smelting/orbing.
Mages sacrifice their HP and AC for MP, Spell levels and casting exp.
I mean, miners getting 100% defense AND %40 attack? Completely ridiculous.
The mage one isn't completely horrible. Gaining some AC and MP would help em but their HP shouldn't be completely negated. Imagine Osiris, already impossible to hit let alone kill, walking around with 2m+ hp?
Now Warriors.... Tons more damage, HP, AC, and higher teleports.... We'd be unstoppable for PVP and leveling would go out of sync.
If anything, to gain more we should be sacrificing more.
Mages sacrifice more HP and AC for MP/casting exp.
Warriors sacrifice more MP/casting exp for Damage, AC and HP.
Miners sacrifice more attack for def.
It's the only way to keep things balanced.
#7
Posted 19 September 2010 - 18:33
You are negating the downsides to having a subclass.
All classes need to make sacrifices to get their +bonus. Its the only way to keep subclasses from being completely over powered.
Warriors sacrifice their spell levels and mp for min/max damage, hp, and ac.
Miners sacrifice their attack for defense, increased mining/smelting/orbing.
Mages sacrifice their HP and AC for MP, Spell levels and casting exp.
I mean, miners getting 100% defense AND %40 attack? Completely ridiculous.
The mage one isn't completely horrible. Gaining some AC and MP would help em but their HP shouldn't be completely negated. Imagine Osiris, already impossible to hit let alone kill, walking around with 2m+ hp?
Now Warriors.... Tons more damage, HP, AC, and higher teleports.... We'd be unstoppable for PVP and leveling would go out of sync.
If anything, to gain more we should be sacrificing more.
Mages sacrifice more HP and AC for MP/casting exp.
Warriors sacrifice more MP/casting exp for Damage, AC and HP.
Miners sacrifice more attack for def.
It's the only way to keep things balanced.
you ma'am are quite mistaken, what you propose would unbalance things FURTHER (though yes kitteh's suggestion would be even worse)
A. miners utilizing defense is a sad and useless thing
B. miners -10% atk is minimal
C. if we give mages and warriors additional dmg (leveling capabilities) explain exactly how much further behind the curve a miner will be in dmg dealing
as it stands a miner is 25 % less dmg effective than a warrior and 25% less dmg effective than a mage
D. mages sacrificing more hp and ac for higher gains of mp and casting exp widens the sorcery gap even more without addressing the dmg deficit, also while the ac currently is well-nigh insurmountable to most peoples eyes, removing more hp is a bad idea, mages contrary to your opinion DO need hp, and contrary to blaq's posit DO actually get hit, you need hp if you rely on defense and you need a lot of it
E. if you seriously think a warrior ought to sacrifice more mp, you must also want warriors to place points to mp
F. higher ac/hp bonuses to warriors is an exceptionally bad idea, a warrior with the minimal 20 % investment in ac at 100 K would have 120K ac not counting hard shell, asking for more ac in your tier simply because you want more dmg and then asking for more dmg as well is simply being greedy and unbalanced
#8
Posted 19 September 2010 - 21:06
I was trying to point out to Kitteh that to get, we need to give to find balance. In order to get the boosts that Kitteh is proposing, we should have to give up something equal. Not get and then get some more. We shouldn't be given massive boosts AS WELL as taking away the only things giving subclasses a downside.
A+B- I agree considering how things are currently. Back in the day, maybe 10% off attack for 10% more def was an even thing but now its kinda pointless. However I don't believe that it should be escalated up to +40% attack AND +100% def. That's an exorbitant amount, on both parts. If anything, miners should get +10% attack and +15% on damage as well as maybe +40% def.
C- Mages and Warriors should not receive more damage, end of story. With the new vials in place, we already do insane damage.
D- I know mages do need HP. I play all 3 subclasses evenly. It's a pain when a creature manages to get past the def on my mage and do considerable damage. But mages shouldn't be given extremely high hp as well. Trying to hit them 3-4 times on a 2% chance would be asinine for pvp.
E- Actually I believe that this is a pointless deduction in the warrior tier. Yeah sure it's a pain to use more mp teleporting and have to recharge more while on a leveling spree, but in comparison with the mage's hp and ac deduction it's trivial. Hopefully if/when the tiers get rebalanced, HCS takes this into account. Warriors should be loosing something greater than -50% mp/spell level for the bonuses we get.
F- Please explain how the following can be misconstrued as "greedy"...
Now Warriors.... Tons more damage, HP, AC, and higher teleports.... We'd be unstoppable for PVP and leveling would go out of sync.
#9
Posted 19 September 2010 - 21:42
#10
Posted 19 September 2010 - 23:17
i suggest that athy sure posts alot more when vappers is down for maintenance
And I suggest that I post whenever my internet is actually working (or when I can successfully steal from a neighbor) and when I feel like it.
Also.... 3 posts now in a day. Watch me go!
:roll:
Sea, I recommend that you stop beating that horse. It's already dead... Down to bare bones and all. Sooner or later the dust from its bones will give you lung cancer or something equally slow and painful... And some other people wouldn't want that at all, can't say the same for myself which brings into question exactly why I'm cautioning you....
Hrmm... Forget I said anything.
#11
Posted 19 September 2010 - 23:54
#12
gothador_kitteh666
Posted 20 September 2010 - 23:23
If you want to fight the MP penalty, put points into MP.
But is there are any way to cancel out the spell max level penalty? How do I increase the spell max levels?
#13
Posted 21 September 2010 - 00:47
F- Please explain how the following can be misconstrued as "greedy"...
Now Warriors.... Tons more damage, HP, AC, and higher teleports.... We'd be unstoppable for PVP and leveling would go out of sync.
it seemed you were proposing % increases contingent on more sacrifice, perhaps i should have been enumerating my list as bolsters to your post and not picking on the last 3 lines instead
#14
gothador_kitteh666
Posted 24 September 2010 - 22:37
So when player get class tier upgrade, bonuses increases and penalties decreases.
#15
Posted 25 September 2010 - 00:56
#16
Posted 25 September 2010 - 01:04
The suggestions keep getting worse and worse....
If it were my kitteh, I'd put a sock over it's head and watch it run into walls.
Actually, HERE KITTEH KITTEH!!! *hides sock behind back*
#17
Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:00
Is there any way to muzzle this cat?
Yes, stop replying to it. It's like a stray, stop feeding it and it'll go elsewhere.
"In the end, you will always kneel."
"Last time I trusted someone, I lost an eye."
#18
Posted 25 September 2010 - 14:52
#19
Posted 26 September 2010 - 03:55
or starve...
Exactamundo.
"In the end, you will always kneel."
"Last time I trusted someone, I lost an eye."
#20
Posted 28 September 2010 - 22:19
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