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PvP Season Update Completed


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#181 KitiaraLi

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 07:20

Sooo.. erhm.. where to begin.

I just sunk around 17K stam into the all new and shiny "PvP" thing.. mainly on bounties and harvesting random crops, aka hitting ppl in the PvP season, and I do have a few thoughts.

 

I'll go positive notes first;
I do like that losing an bounty attack now equals xp loss. About bloody time, and better reflects what is going on in combat - and adds more risk to it.

I do like the thought of this adding more PvP activity to the game, and so far that part works. I do like the auto-posting of bounties, adds life to the board. It has some issues though, but those I will address below.

 

And then, I have some concerns, thoughts, questions:

 

1: The opt-out. Why oh why do you even bother having PvP in this game, if you're gonna keep on giving ppl a way out?

 

2: Where did xp loss go in the PvP season? You have created the soft PvP arena, so many non-pvp'ers have asked for in years, each time shutting it down with "PvP is about risk, and there is no risk if no XP loss" .. now you have given ppl and opt-out (yet again) - bring back xp loss, thank you.

 

3. Care to explain how the bounty posting system works - as in with details? I got posted for a total value around 1.6 mill, after having stolen approx 2K and having one wee bebe adding in 100K to the pot. I find the numbers not adding up to the previous explanations on this part of the system

 

4. How come conserve doesn't apply to xp loss on bounties anymore? If I wanna be nice, and use conserve to not plow ppl into the dirt on bounties, that should be my choice.

 

5. How come I have to click like a million times, just to clear bounties? Each hit I do, sends me back the main screen under Fight Players, aka the PvP event screen. Then click again to get back to bounty board, scroll for target, repeat. Have you tested this while trying to clear more than one bounty at a time? Poorly scripted to say the least.

 

6. Why put the extra strain on the already overwhelmed servers with the slotsmachine like avatar spin, while the code selects an opponent on the PvP season screen? Looks silly, and just makes everything last longer.

 

7. Could you add the option, to go directly to next target after having performed a hit in PvP season? As in, instead of having to go back to main screen, click find opponent etc? Make it simple, smooth and with less clicking around.

 

8. I still do not, and will never understand why, I cannot select to post an bounty at a time of my choosing. To me it seems, like you really have no idea how PvP worked b4 this update, and how your players played the game.

 

9. If you want this to somehow reflect just a little bit who does PvP, and who has at least some skills, add a small code where inactivity for .. say 2 hours, automatically makes you void as a target for the PvP season. It can be abused for sure, but the way it is now, I bet a bunch of players feel abused already, and without a chance to defend 'emselves when going to work, sleeping, having a life away from screen etc. Also, remove all rewards for partaking in the PvP season, and bring back prestige as the only reward, apart from gold earnings and PvP related medal ticks.

 

10. Next time you go around completely ripping an aspect of the game into pieces, and trying to make it into something new; How about you listen to the feedback of those, who actually play that aspect of the game? Most of the above was said b4 this update ever hit the game.. numerous times.


No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#182 rowbeth

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 08:11

3. Care to explain how the bounty posting system works - as in with details? I got posted for a total value around 1.6 mill, after having stolen approx 2K and having one wee bebe adding in 100K to the pot. I find the numbers not adding up to the previous explanations on this part of the system

 

I can see myself posting this link several times---its a shame it wasn't posted in this forum.

 

The most detailed explanation of bounty posting I've seen was given by Zorg here:

https://forums.hunte...bb/#entry940991

 

In summary

 

* There will only ever be at most one bounty active on you. It is a composite of all the PVP hits you have initiated.

* The bounty is activated at random: the game rolls the dice every minute to see if it will activate it now, with the chance increasing with the size of the bounty pot.

* Players have one chance per hit to add gold to the bounty pot, and they have 48 hours in which to do it. So if they wait until your current bounty pot clears and then add their gold, that will contribute to triggering your next bounty on you. (Which means that if they wait for your current bounty to clear and then pay a BIG enough contribution to your bounty pot, then they will (probably) be posting their own bounty on you at a time of their choosing during that 48 hours)


Edited by rowbeth, 25 July 2015 - 08:12.


#183 maxdragon

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 08:42

after 10+ hours of trying the system using 6000+ stamina and talking to many helpful players I will later give my report about the new pvp :)


Edited by maxdragon, 25 July 2015 - 08:42.


#184 Grimwald

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 09:23

1: The opt-out. Why oh why do you even bother having PvP in this game, if you're gonna keep on giving ppl a way out?

 

I will only give you MY opinion about this, as this is most commen remark I have seen from PvPers. 

 

In the first 24hours I received about 30 attacks meaning one every hour or so. The end result that after every attack I lost a big chunk of my gold (and before the removal of XP-Loss) I could have lost 8% of an level every time. So without PVP protection I would have lost about two levels in the first day. Since most of my attackers used buff stealing buffs I also lost the buffs I used to try to protect myself. So in total I lost 30 times XP, Gold and buffs. And I wasn't hit that often, as I hear about others being hit way more often.

 

As this was all over the board, it meant that nobody was able to hold gold long enough to do anything meaningfull. The result was that there was no activity on the FSP buying board. Nobody was able to keep gold long enough to sell it for gold. Secondly hunting should be an nightmere, I have seen one person trying to hunt and it was not a pretty sight. Got hit severall times during their hunt and had to rebuff essentail bufs. 

 

Potion market was gone also, as potion makers got hit why they received the cash from the pots. So they switched to FSP per pot, or increased prices. Buff market was also damaged, I know from severall people removing their listings. 

 

All those hits wheren't targetted hits, but random.. It was an sort of axe lottery. Which rolled lots and lots of times during the day. Why do you think people stopped carrying gold around (for composing), bought PvP protection etc etc. This so called PVP season killed the game.



#185 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 09:37

...(and before the removal of XP-Loss) I could have lost 8% of an level every time...

 

Not really, each hit is equivalent at 4~5% of a level worth of XP Loss. On BB with 10x100.000 increasements (1M Gold added to the target Total Bounty) you can lose 14~15% worth of a level of XP Loss (0,1% more XP Loss for each 100.000 gold added to the targets Total Bounty.

I'm talking about EACH hit, not about all the Bounty, so make it x 15 of XP Loss on BB, 210~225% for 15 hits.



#186 duktayp

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 09:43

I'm just happy to see the overall emotions in the recent posts transitioning from rage to curiosity



#187 KitiaraLi

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 09:47

I will only give you MY opinion about this, as this is most commen remark I have seen from PvPers. 

 

*snip*

This all makes sense, from the player view. My question was aimed at the HCS view, and maybe that was not clearly enough worded out.

My question is: Why bother going through a load of planning and coding hours, spending a huge pile of $$$ on salaries, into adding/upgrading an aspect of the game, which you in return, will let ppl avoid simply by clicking the mouse? If you (HCS) stand behind, that players should have the right to avoid PvP, in a game where PvP has always played a huge factor - well, water it out entirely. The "trying to appease all" approach will not work, simply because the solutions will be half*#sed and not feel satisfactory to any of the "sides"  - in this case the sides being those who njoy PvP, and those who do not.

 

Each time there has been a change to PvP, I have lost alotta allies/friends in this game, because it has altered or completely removed, what they liked in the game - that being both PvPers and non-PvPers (and those in between).

I would like for HCS to make a stand, and clearly state "This game has PvP for all, at all times" or "This game does not include PvP" period. That way, those who can live with either way (or both) can stay in the game, and maybe progress in the game will come more smoothly, and is more likely to appease the entire player base.

 

There is no middle way. It has been tried, tested, tweaked, perverted, abused and distorted too many times, with out having any sort of long term success. Make a stand, and let the players know. We will then decide, what we will do. As is, too many stay behind, and struggle to get the game to stay the way it was (as some of us call it; Trying to maintain the games soul) - while others try desperately to move the game towards something different/new and in their opinion better.

In the middle is HCS, not having a fighting chance.


No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#188 rowbeth

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 09:52

Not really, each hit is equivalent at 4~5% of a level worth of XP Loss. On BB with 10x100.000 increasements (1M Gold added to the target Total Bounty) you can lose 14~15% worth of a level of XP Loss (0,1% more XP Loss for each 100.000 gold added to the targets Total Bounty.

I'm talking about EACH hit, not about all the Bounty, so make it x 15 of XP Loss on BB, 210~225% for 15 hits.

 

Actually, when the Season started it was 8-10%. It got reduced to 4-5% and then it got removed. So Grimwald's comment (with his caveat about before removal of Xp loss) is essentially true.

 

 

I'd also note that his post is a justification of the opt-out, and not for the retention of both opt-out and no-Xp-loss. The argument on the opt-out is about both Xp and gold, and the effect this combination had on many other aspects of the game. Personally, with the opt-out in place (which I vigorously support), I would have absolutely no objections to HCS reconsidering the Xp-loss issue.



#189 rowbeth

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 10:05

I'm just happy to see the overall emotions in the recent posts transitioning from rage to curiosity

 

And there I was thinking you'd spent three months planning some ingenious and entertaining drama to release with this update!

(https://forums.hunte.../#entry929798)?

:D



#190 duktayp

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 10:33

And there I was thinking you'd spent three months planning some ingenious and entertaining drama to release with this update!

(https://forums.hunte.../#entry929798)?

:D

 

all i have so far:

 

7e292686cb7177555979059ef45545ee.jpg

 

while we're still running the full spectrum in the 7 stages of grief, overall the average looks to be about stage 4

 

a rising number are entering stage 6

 

still weeks away from the majority reaching stage 7



#191 Grimwald

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 10:43

Actually, when the Season started it was 8-10%. It got reduced to 4-5% and then it got removed. So Grimwald's comment (with his caveat about before removal of Xp loss) is essentially true.

 

 

I'd also note that his post is a justification of the opt-out, and not for the retention of both opt-out and no-Xp-loss. The argument on the opt-out is about both Xp and gold, and the effect this combination had on many other aspects of the game. Personally, with the opt-out in place (which I vigorously support), I would have absolutely no objections to HCS reconsidering the Xp-loss issue.

Yep, I totally agree with you on this part too.

 

If PvPers want to play this PvPseason and now the unwilling victims are gone they should reintroduce XP-loss. To be fair I suspect that the EOC guys will take almost all the prices, but that is too be expected. Basically we will end back to the old pvp ladders with longer ranges.

 

Maybe its time that HCS would ask what kind of PvP the players really want. Do we want an PvPArena like thing in which skill is an major factor or do the pvpers want to hit unexpected targets who went to bed and unprotected?



#192 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 11:26

Oh, sorry...Didn't realized it was 8~10% at the start, I was just hitting people non-stop =P

About the Opt-Out and XP Loss:
- I like it? No.
- I understand it? Yes.
- Make me wanna play it now? No.

The system now have nothing to do with the original idea, really, NOTHING, I was quite excited at the start, but now that just look like the old Ladder, but worse.

PvP Ladder:
- Opt-Out: Yes.
- XP Loss: Yes.
- Durabillity loss: Yes.
- Bountyable: No.
- Brackets to make a fair game: Yes.

PvP Seasons:
- Opt-Out: Yes.
- XP Loss: No.
- Durabillity loss: No.
- Bountyable: Yes.
- Brackets to make a fair game: No.

-

People, please tell me, why should I raise my League if while on higher Leagues I'll be attacked more often?

Why should I keep hitting the whole month (next Season will a month long) if each loss will cost me 50 stamina?

On the last day of the Season should I just drink some big Composed, PvP and Global pots and go to the Rank 1+High Rating, stay fully geared and buffed until the last minute making impossible to people to hit me? YES!

There is no reason for the Season to last 1 month, will be 29 days of quietly saving stamina and 1 day of total mayhem.

And again, the EOCers with big stamina banks and acces to big Composed pots will just rule the system, VERY EASILY.

-

I'm not saying that the EOCers who spent more money should not have benefits, but that is WAY TOO MUCH benefit...


Edited by yghorbeviahn, 25 July 2015 - 11:28.


#193 Subject

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 11:46

I logged in this morning to see how many times i was hit while sleeping and my rank is now Rank 1 position Unranked... What does that mean i was Position 25 when i went to sleep and was only attacked a few times while asleep...

#194 Subject

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 12:01

I logged in this morning to see how many times i was hit while sleeping and my rank is now Rank 1 position Unranked... What does that mean i was Position 25 when i went to sleep and was only attacked a few times while asleep...


I can still attack players and can still be attacked but my rank doesn't fluctuate at all it stays * Unranked *

#195 shindrak

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 12:14

After understanding new pvp ... it seems just stamina consuming aspect .. the more stamina you spend the higher rank you get... looks like boring and dead in short term

 

and please HC's dont tell me this is not constructive feedback! you know better than your players thats why you made this update on your own.

 

Suggesting something is just waste of time because you won't do the original idea exactly...i can see that from last arena update and this new pvp update


Edited by shindrak, 25 July 2015 - 12:22.


#196 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 12:24

Constructive feedback please.

Edited by BigGrim, 25 July 2015 - 14:53.


#197 Iseult

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 12:54

I like the update.

People who are most active have the most risk of having bounty posted, and corresponding xp loss.

Bounty hunters don't get hit or bountied for taking bounties which puts the risk back on those who are attacking in pvp instead of those that are hitting back. the buddy system is eliminated, mostly, as everyone gets hit the same. 

Definitely were some roll out issues but hell, that's a given with something this complicated. I think the first day of chaos was sort of fun in its own way especially if you fix the xp loss for those that really really don't like pvp. The opt out is a good thing for those pure levelers, I don't think it should be in the game as there's pvp protection to buy but that's not my call. 

 

At any rate we definitely needed something to shake things up a bit, and this makes the pvp part of the game much more entertaining than trying to stay alive in the old mess. 



#198 Kedyn

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 14:06

PvP Ladder:
- Opt-Out: Yes.
- XP Loss: Yes.
- Durabillity loss: Yes.
- Bountyable: No.
- Brackets to make a fair game: Yes.

PvP Seasons:
- Opt-Out: Yes.
- XP Loss: No.
- Durabillity loss: No.
- Bountyable: Yes.
- Brackets to make a fair game: No.

-

 

+1 to this, but you forgot this.

 

PVP-Ladder: Minimum 1 hour between attacks

PVP Seasons: Minimum finding the target multiple times between attacks (could be every minute).

 

Grim - my logs are still filled with the same list of players hitting me 20-30 times throughout the night. As has been stated before, the targeting system has not been fixed by any means, unless people are just running out of targets. However, I'm only in silver league, so there has to be more than just me as a target.

 

Duk - Currently, I'm in all stages but #7. I don't think I'll ever get to that one.



#199 spyders

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 14:29

DO we still need to use GLOAT BUFF?



#200 yotekiller

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 14:34

DO we still need to use GLOAT BUFF?

Probably not any time soon but one of these days someone will get caught holding a bunch of gold and when they do, my gloat buff will be ready and waiting......lol


Screenshot everything!



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