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PvP Season Update Completed


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#361 matt2269f

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 16:32

a few things i would like to comment on 

 

#1 the no xp loss ---- it has to be this way or the league would be dead instantly - players hitting players 300 lvls below them while they are causing xp loss? i log on each day to see i have been defeated at least 10x minumum - within a week players could be down 10's to hundreds of lvls 

 

#2 we need at least a 1hr timed cool down before a player can be repeat hit - in the last 45 mins i have been hit 3x by the same player 

 

# 3 have a set max # of hits that can be done in a day 



#362 matt2269f

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 16:55

here is something thats drives me crazy -all the rantings by true pvp players 

 

here is some facts -

 

pvprs need non pvpers

non pvprs dont need pvprs

 

pvprs wear gear designed to beat other players with the greatest chance of success(along with buffs to enhance the odds)

non pvprs wear gear designed to kill monsters

 

pvprs surprise attack players cuz they dont want a fair battle they want one they will win 

 

what would happen to pvprs if the game got changed to pvprs could ONLY  hit other pvprs  ?

 

answer = there wouldnt be many pvprs left 



#363 matt2269f

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 17:00

sorry for the rant



#364 xxlooperxx

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 17:12

Please consider insert some sort of level tiers for the qualifying rounds... So that everyone has a fair chance at reaching Titan league...

Edited by BigGrim, 29 July 2015 - 10:13.
No flame baiting please.

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#365 spyders

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 21:13

 
Each hit counts to the medal, not simply the final one.


 

thanks . 

 

so each 15 hits i should see +% for my bounty medal ?



#366 bigchaos

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 23:15

I am rather confused when I see pvpers this and non that.  I like to add in global events we are equal with exceptions of larger stamina holds.  Keep in mind we need the whole community and not lose players.  I play all aspects of the game and have to say I like the current bb because it is nice to see a page of bounties on it and we all get on there.  

 

I stopped pvping simply because it got boring to me.  Same players on bb and if there were any on bb at all.  It is nice to see a variety of players removing bounty again and seeing gold given to each strike I like.   I am starting to like the league but feel we need to smooth out some rough patches.  I agree and put a like on, with a statement made earlier by Yotekiller about you do not want to pvp against players that are not a challenge, so players that are inactive removed is good.  I think opt out should stay to let those that are enjoying other aspects of the game to do so.  I do not agree that non pvpers are winning as some comments are made and I feel pvping is fun if you understand this aspect of the game. In my opinion if the challenging players want to do the league means the medal has more value by working hard to get there. :P   

 

This is not to be taken as a flamage or personal just my thoughts on the comments I have been reading.  


Edited by bigchaos, 29 July 2015 - 00:42.


#367 moonfrost

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 02:36

There needs to be xp loss in pvp seasons, it's that simple. The idea that theres no loss and that there's an opt out certainly qualifies as reasoning for xp loss to be reintroduced into pvp. Otherwise all that's happened is the one sacred thing left in this game has just become a complete joke. And then to add the smasher medal on top of it is even worse. There's no smashing involved anymore, just a series of pillow fights for prizes that haven't even been determined yet but instead we're asked to design. It's a complete lack of insight on the part of the game, something that for as long as it took to implement should have been more thoroughly discussed and looked at before not only intoducing it to the game but then changing and updating it numerous times with things that have long since been said to never happen in this game. Yet here we are looking at those very things.

 

Truth be told, the idea behind pvp seasons was a decent one but wasn't completely thought out. Had time been spent properly on this end of it there would have been minimal need to make as many drastic changes as were made during the first few days.



#368 KitiaraLi

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 06:57

After some more testing (now a total of around 35K-40K stam sunk into the new PvP system - both Season and BB), I have a few more thoughts on it. The first 10 Qs can be seen here https://forums.hunte...-10#entry941260... just in case a moomoo actually bothers.

 

11. Defending on the board. Should I happen to be online when the system decides to post me (based on a mysterious, few-can-figure-out and apparently no-one can explain, formula) I would under normal circumstances (b4 this update) most likely defend myself on my bounty. I'd have several tabs open in my browser with my own stats, my opponents stats, a page for quick buff changes etc. My attacker(bounty hunter) would in 99% of the time decide to take on the challenge, and we would "dance" till my bounty was either cleared, or the bounty hunter decided she/he took on a too high lvl target (yes, that did happen more than you'd think). Paying the sometimes high bounty ticket prize (if the target was lower lvl) was an incentive to keep going at it + there was a way of behaving while bounty hunting. It resulted in a somewhat intimate aspect of the game, where a target and a hunter battled for life and death, usually while chatting to each other, due to the 2 min. waiting in between hits (one of the reasons as to why we called it "dancing").

This new system, does not in any way, shape or form come close. The board is now a, where too many clicks to perform attacks are making the whole thing cold and sterile, and where it has no "cost" to simply skip hitting on a hard-to-clear target, and let the bounty hang till the player goes offline, and buffs wear off.
I urge you (HCS) to look into how the UI on the bounty board is designed, and how to accept a bounty. You can have ideas as to how you think it can be, and I as a user of it, can tell you how I experience it - and wish that you'd start seeing the difference between your incentive behind a game feature, and how it actually is.

I could do the same rant for taking on bounties, since the same apply the other way around.

 

12. The stam cost of all PvP. I cannot remember how much stam, or gain you start out with in this game, so sadly I cannot hand out the math for you (someone with a better memory around?). The gain can be upped via joining a guild with Endurance shrine and completing the epic quests. There may be more free upgrades, but not as I recall right now. So, you'd need to invest $$$ into the game or work like a crazy to gain enough FSP to make upgrades, buy epics etc etc. As a lower lvl player/new player - this is not as easy as we sometimes try to make it sound.

If I am a new player, who have found a way to establish myself an income in game, having 70-90 stam gain per hour, and a max stam bank around 2500-4500 seems about right (again, the numbers may be off due to poor memory) - so, how many hits can I perform? I gain less than 2 hits per hour. Can I level, titan hunt, do globals, etc, if I'd like to try PvP? If we're rude and go "make a choice, you cannot do all" - we not only go against what we have always said about the game (you can play all aspects, and you should to fully understand/appreciate it), how big is my chance to compete?
I got everything knocked outta me while being offline - and heyho, I have good gear, am high level, had a big stam bank to perform a big pile of hits in the season... and atm I have nothing to show for it (bronze league, and I was crystal), simply because I have a life away from screen. So you think this part of the game is still for all players - new and old?

 

Hint: Check the bronze league, and calculate how much stam has been used to be there. Insane amount of stam, for 78 players currently being in the second lowest tier.

 

13. The opt-out. If enough ppl decide to opt-out ... can I risk being locked in the wooden tier, simply because I have no targets to hit? Can I be stuck with 2-3 others, and just have to violate their logs to raise myself up a tier?

 

...more will most likely come, but I'd love to actually hear something from HCS. Bunch of Qs, concerns and serious thoughts have been put into this thread and the future of the PvP system, by a rather concerned FS community. Yet not one single "oooh we did not think about that", "that is a valid point", "that has to be looked into" or similar from a moomoo as of yet.


No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#369 Tharsonius

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:13

A few thoughts, many of them have already been said, but I try to summarize a few essential issues here:

 

1) PvP season opt-out: This does NOT mean that non-PvPers can completely opt out of any PvP. There's always unrated attacks. It was the same with the PvP Ladder. Both the Ladder and the Season are a sort of tournament and a player should be able to choose whether to enroll to it or not. There will (hopefully) never be a complete PvP opt-out as unrated attacks should always be possible.

After all: those PvPers that want to engage in direct action don't need prizes and rewards to do so. Instead of making the PvP Season a "bash-all-battleground with goodies for those that bash harder" we should think about how to make the _unrated_ PvP aspect more interesting again to engage more players in "true" PvP. But this requires direct placement of bounties (see below).

 

2) PvP Season XP loss: With the possible opt-out, XP loss should be reintroduced. Only those that agree to take the risk will enroll to the PvP Season. Maybe XP loss could be reduced a bit because in the beginning of this Season the losses were too extreme, but there should be at least some loss. Instead of pillows we should start using swords again. After all, it's supposed to Player vs Player, not Pillow vs Pillow.

 

3) Stamina cost for PvP attacks: please reintroduce the 10-100 stamina choice. KitiaraLi is completely right when she wonders whether new players will be able to really participate in this aspect of the game (PvP) at such a high stamina cost.

 

4) Bounty Board: there's no true fight for a bounty with the new system. With the old system (especially in the days where the BB was very active) I had to be fast, determined, skilled and sometimes also a little bit lucky if I wanted to claim the bounty. That was fun, kept me motivated, because I could never be sure whether I would make it. KitiaraLi described the "dance" from the point of view of the hunted. It's the same "dance" that now has lost a lot of its fascination. As it is now, there's no need to stick to a bounty, no need to be fast, no need to "dance".

 

5) Bounty placement: The automatic placements have brought more bounties, and that's a good thing. But: there are some circumstances when it would be better if a "victim" could directly place a bounty (instead of just raising the chance and XP loss). I don't see why one must exclude the other. My proposal: automatic placement for rated attacks (PvP Season, but only if that involves XP loss, see above); direct placement by players for unrated attacks. There should probably not be an automatic placement for bounty hits but maybe direct placement by players (although I would hit them hard if they placed a bounty on me for that!)



#370 victor1gr

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:54

victor1gr, on 24 Jul 2015 - 16:29, said:snapback.png

Sure thing. this is the only useful thing there is and come after 3 revisions instead of coming live immediately. People (and me as well) got attacked and lost money/exp for nothing just in order for you COWs to perform your brilliant experiment... 

 

And by the way, every opt out is a NO vote on your new system so don't be excited about this...

I may be reading from the beginning now but do not presume to speak for everyone please? I for one like the new system, that does not mean my opt-out is a no vote on the new system. I simply do not have the time it would require to actively partake in it so I chose to opt out. Does this mean I think the new system is flawed?

 

Simply put: No.

 

Hello, my intention was not to speak on your behalf nor anyone else. We just put our opinion here. After 7 years on this game i think i earned the right to express it here. If i offended anyone i'm really sorry but now please try to relax and stop acting as a politician. Try offer something constructive instead... 

 

The biggest flaw of the new system is that it is super complicated (has many other design flaws as well although some of them already corrected). I talked about that in a previous post. After 3 days and 1000 posts about how PVP, bounty system works, with the community try to understand what's going on i have my proof of that (the unnecessary complexity). 

 

 

And now some more constructive feedback that Grim and others ask:

-keep the system SIMPLE. If you COWs know your job (and i'm sure you do) you know how to do this. Lay some simple rules down for everyone to see and design the system inside those rules. A normal player should be able to understand how the system works in less than 10 minutes by reading an official guide not searching through 1000 posts in the forum. 

-System must be fair. It should provide opportunities for all players no matter if they have 100k max stam to burn or 1000. this applies to Gold costs, stam costs, prizes as well

-Transparency: mechanics should be clear (how bounties are placed, how the system chooses which targets to show, how someone advances ranks, prizes)

-Set clear goals for players: Why would someone spend time understanding and participating on this PVP system? Potions, items, FSP, reserve stam, gold , experience levels, composing levels, premium character upgrades, composing slots, some king of fame, metals, others ? This should be clear beforehand. 

 

Just my two cents and personal opinion. Nothing more.



#371 BigGrim

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 10:41

1: The opt-out. Why oh why do you even bother having PvP in this game, if you're gonna keep on giving ppl a way out?


Because we were listening to feedback. It worked More people are trying PvP than before and those who don't want to be a target can play as they wish. It basically made multiple facets of the game unplayable for people for the sake of one facet.
 

2: Where did xp loss go in the PvP season?


It has resulted in more people playing PvP. That's a win, surely?
 

3. Care to explain how the bounty posting system works - as in with details?


https://forums.hunte...and-the-new-bb/
 

4. How come conserve doesn't apply to xp loss on bounties anymore?


That was an exploit on the old board. One we have now closed.
 

5. How come I have to click like a million times, just to clear bounties?


This is something we can look at.
 

6. Why put the extra strain on the already overwhelmed servers.


Because it doesn't? Zorg designed this. He knows what he's doing.
 

7. Could you add the option, to go directly to next target after having performed a hit in PvP season? As in, instead of having to go back to main screen, click find opponent etc? Make it simple, smooth and with less clicking around.


We can look at this.
 

8. I still do not, and will never understand why, I cannot select to post an bounty at a time of my choosing.


Because it was exploited. As such, it has been closed.
 

9. Without a chance to defend 'emselves when going to work, sleeping, having a life away from screen etc.


Which is why we're asking about potion prizes with 12 to 24 hour durations for defencive purposes.

https://forums.hunte...desires-please/

#372 BigGrim

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 10:45

Please consider insert some sort of level tiers for the qualifying rounds... So that everyone has a fair chance at reaching Titan league...


If you look at the top 20 players in crystal, there's a wide range of player levels. Everyone has a chance to gain Titan. The stats we've looked over completely support this too.
 

thanks . 
 
so each 15 hits i should see +% for my bounty medal ?


What level of the medal are you going for?
 

There needs to be xp loss in pvp seasons.


Not really. The Seasons are busy. Add the XP loss back in and more people will leave. It's Player Vs Player after all. Not Player Vs Player's XP.

#373 DomCorvis

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 13:01

add in some type of cooldown please!!!being hit 30-40x a night bybthe same 2-3 lvl 700+ players isnt very enticing to sign into....knowing that i was position #10 just a few days ago and ive been dropped by the same 4-5 people over 300+ times in that time is disheartening....i will keep hitting and defending but after buring through $60 worth of fsp and id assume 15-20k worth of stam, only to repeatedly get hit when my buffs drop while i sleep....

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#374 DomCorvis

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 13:03

btw IF there was xp loss i would be down over 30+ lvls just from season attacks

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#375 DomCorvis

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 13:14

however i,also think,there should be some type off risk for losing a season attack...people just buff n swing currently...who cares if they lose if they got more stam

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#376 clock96

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 13:15

I agree with Dom here, I get attacked by the same player for tens of times in under an hour and it's not his fauly cuz I am the only one he gets along with another two, if there aren't enough people in the game to attack then just bring back inactives, not all of them but those online in the past 7 days, as boring as it will be but I will atleast see new faces to attack not just the same couple of people I always get !!

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#377 KitiaraLi

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:31

Nice to see your face, BG and even better to see you dish out some answers...still tons more to be answered though  :rolleyes:  If Hoof isn't paying enough for the needed overtime to answer everything (well, not every Q, but every touched aspect in those Qs), smack him from me :wub:

 

 

 

And yeah, Zorg knows what he's doing ...so I (and everyone else) can expect a stam refill anytime now? ;) :P :D :ph34r:


No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#378 clock96

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:49

15:38 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
15:30 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
15:22 29/Jul/2015 You were attacked by darkelite, but you deflected the attack.
15:14 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
15:06 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
14:58 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
14:52 29/Jul/2015 You were attacked by darkelite, but you deflected the attack.
14:46 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
14:38 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
14:28 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)
14:17 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)




That's what happens when I log out for 2 hours ? All by the same player, sure not his fault

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#379 clock96

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:52

I have lost about 500 stam all by the same player in an hour and 20 minutes, I don't even get those 500 stam in 8 hours of stam gain

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#380 clock96

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:55

Oh and here's one more
15:48 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)

EDIT:
ONE MORE: 16:00 29/Jul/2015 You were defeated by darkelite in combat. [ View Combat ] (Rated Combat)

Edited by clock96, 29 July 2015 - 16:01.

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