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PvP Ladder: Improvements


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#41 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:06

No one wants to play it because its boring simple enough. Season was interesting and rather thrilling. Rewards won't fix a boring aspect. TH used to take 4 hours with super rewards but did everyone participate no. Rewards aren't the end all of end all solution.

Truth is actually, only PvPers will PvP, no levellers will ever PvP regardless of rewards, especially if its the ladder where you get attacked a lot, what happened on the Seasons isn't participation from levellers who wanted to PvP (except for a few rare exceptions) its just participation from coward PvPers who are afraid of real PvP and XP loss and just participated cuz there is no XP loss and hitting players thousands of levels under them, so if these are the ones who will make ladder better I don't want them and would prefer 50 real PvPers or people who aren't afraid of XP loss than 200 phony PvPers

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#42 yotekiller

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:09

Totally agree on adding the new rewards. I'll be looking over all the suggestions with BigGrim as soon as he's back in the office from his holiday then will look to get them added as quickly as possibly :)

So is everything pretty much on hold until grim returns in 2 weeks?  Are support tickets being addressed or they also on hold for 2 weeks?  I was under the impression that your system automatically purges some info after 2 weeks that could be useful in resolving support tickets.


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#43 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:09

Truth is actually, only PvPers will PvP, no levellers will ever PvP regardless of rewards, especially if its the ladder where you get attacked a lot, what happened on the Seasons isn't participation from levellers who wanted to PvP (except for a few rare exceptions) its just participation from coward PvPers who are afraid of real PvP and XP loss and just participated cuz there is no XP loss and hitting players thousands of levels under them, so if these are the ones who will make ladder better I don't want them and would prefer 50 real PvPers or people who aren't afraid of XP loss than 200 phony PvPers

Here you guys go on with the whole "true pvper" speech and elitism bull.



#44 mary4ever

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:26

The rewards were on par with the effort required...just as the ladder is on par with the effort required.

that is not true and you know it !!!

 

to invent 1 helhearts item you need 20 ladder tokens + resources !!!

 

IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets then you get 5 tokens, that means the earliest you can get 20 tokens in total is after 4 resets IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets !!!

 

as we all know the PvP ladder lasts 1-2 days, so 4 ladder resets would take "about" 4 x 1,5 days = 6 days !!!

 

so after 6 days you would be able to invent 1 helhearts item that currently has a worth 1-3 FSPs according to current AH prices (check the AH to see it for yourself)

and after 3 weeks (21 days = 6 days x 3,5): you would be able to invent 3,5 helhearts items IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets !!!

3,5 helhearts items have a value of (1-3 FSPs) x 3,5 = 3,5 - 10,5 fsps according to current AH prices !!!

 

COMPARING rewards from SEASON & PvP ladder after players participated for a duration of 3 weeks:

season lasts 3 weeks (21 days) and gives you 12 EPIC potions !!!

PvP ladder lasting 3 weeks (21 days) gives you 3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs !!!

 

12 EPIC potions have a very high value and not even the "3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs" can compare to 1 single EPIC potion from the season !!!!

 

ps: to get 3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs is only possible IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets for a duration of 3 weeks which is very difficult so the "3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs" are the BEST rewards you can get on the PvP ladder BUT the season rewards "everyone" with 12 EPIC potions !!!

 

so EPICPIETY, are you still claiming that the season rewards are on par with the PvP ladder rewards?

 

I gave you a detailed explanation & some basic calculations so I would appreciate it if you could do the same too if I ask you a question and not keep refusing to answer BUT still keep claiming to know the answer !!!


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#45 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:33

Here you guys go on with the whole "true pvper" speech and elitism bull.

Cuz its simply the truth ?

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#46 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:12

that is not true and you know it !!!

 

to invent 1 helhearts item you need 20 ladder tokens + resources !!!

 

IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets then you get 5 tokens, that means the earliest you can get 20 tokens in total is after 4 resets IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets !!!

 

as we all know the PvP ladder lasts 1-2 days, so 4 ladder resets would take "about" 4 x 1,5 days = 6 days !!!

 

so after 6 days you would be able to invent 1 helhearts item that currently has a worth 1-3 FSPs according to current AH prices (check the AH to see it for yourself)

and after 3 weeks (21 days = 6 days x 3,5): you would be able to invent 3,5 helhearts items IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets !!!

3,5 helhearts items have a value of (1-3 FSPs) x 3,5 = 3,5 - 10,5 fsps according to current AH prices !!!

 

COMPARING rewards from SEASON & PvP ladder after players participated for a duration of 3 weeks:

season lasts 3 weeks (21 days) and gives you 12 EPIC potions !!!

PvP ladder lasting 3 weeks (21 days) gives you 3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs !!!

 

12 EPIC potions have a very high value and not even the "3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs" can compare to 1 single EPIC potion from the season !!!!

 

ps: to get 3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs is only possible IF you manage to place 1st EVERY TIME the ladder resets for a duration of 3 weeks which is very difficult so the "3,5 helhearts items worth 3,5-10,5 FSPs" are the BEST rewards you can get on the PvP ladder BUT the season rewards "everyone" with 12 EPIC potions !!!

 

so EPICPIETY, are you still claiming that the season rewards are on par with the PvP ladder rewards?

 

I gave you a detailed explanation & some basic calculations so I would appreciate it if you could do the same too if I ask you a question and not keep refusing to answer BUT still keep claiming to know the answer !!!

Sure here are some calculations, pvp seasons you get 0 fsps surely i'm following. PvP ladder is worlds easier. Your battling at most 3 actives lol. Rewards are as they should. your fighting about 33x more people in seasons therefore the reward should be 33x more. Also its 12x as long. That's enough to justify :). Comes out to about x396...They line up about right.


Edited by EpicPiety, 20 August 2015 - 04:16.


#47 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:23

Sure here are some calculations, pvp seasons you get 0 fsps surely i'm following. PvP ladder is worlds easier. Your battling at most 3 actives lol. Rewards are as they should. your fighting about 33x more people in seasons therefore the reward should be 33x more. Also its 12x as long. That's enough to justify :). Comes out to about x396...They line up about right.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL, I am dying of laughing right now, XD, so you call the seasons "fighting" :-
-No XP loss
-No Durability loss
-attcking players 2000 levels below you

And you call that fighting ? LOL, You make my day dude/girl actually I don't know, you make me laugh real hard xD

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#48 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:28

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL, I am dying of laughing right now, XD, so you call the seasons "fighting" :-
-No XP loss
-No Durability loss
-attcking players 2000 levels below you

And you call that fighting ? LOL, You make my day dude/girl actually I don't know, you make me laugh real hard xD

Guess you missed the posts in the forums where i said removing xp loss was the stupidest things the cows did.



#49 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:31

Guess you missed the posts in the forums where i said removing xp loss was the stupidest things the cows did.

So bring back XP loss in a season were a lvl 2600 can attack a lvl 100 ? I am even laughing more now xD

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#50 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:33

So bring back XP loss in a season were a lvl 2600 can attack a lvl 100 ? I am even laughing more now xD

Not quite, i can't say i hit anyone sub 2000 in the 1st season and whoever made it to the titan league got hit. You don't get matched with lower levels outside of titan league. Now i'm laughing too because you are so ignorant.


Edited by EpicPiety, 20 August 2015 - 04:34.


#51 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:37

Not quite, i can't say i hit anyone sub 2000 in the 1st season and whoever made it to the titan league got hit. You don't get matched with lower levels outside of titan league. Now i'm laughing too because you are so ignorant.

So I worked hard to get to Titan league so that I can get butt kicked by players 2000 levels above me ? Hmmmm, Interesting xD

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#52 mary4ever

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:39

Sure here are some calculations, pvp seasons you get 0 fsps surely i'm following. PvP ladder is worlds easier. Your battling at most 3 actives lol. Rewards are as they should. your fighting about 33x more people in seasons therefore the reward should be 33x more. Also its 12x as long. That's enough to justify :). Comes out to about x396...They line up about right.

 

Guess you missed the posts in the forums where i said removing xp loss was the stupidest things the cows did.

 

so you claimed that the season rewards are on par with the PvP ladder rewards?

basing it on XP loss in the season ???

 

BUT there is no XP LOSS in the season !!!

guess you missed the posts in the forums / home page where HCS announced that they removed XP LOSS from the season attacks !!!

 

so again, season attacks take NO XP !!!

 

asking you again:

so EPICPIETY, are you still claiming that the season rewards are on par with the PvP ladder rewards?


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#53 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 04:44

EpicPiety, why don't you jump in on your own ladder range and let us see how great of a PvPer you are dealing with players your own level not 2000 levels below you ? Come on go ahead it shall be fun :D

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#54 moonfrost

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:14

Truth is actually, only PvPers will PvP, no levellers will ever PvP regardless of rewards, especially if its the ladder where you get attacked a lot, what happened on the Seasons isn't participation from levellers who wanted to PvP (except for a few rare exceptions) its just participation from coward PvPers who are afraid of real PvP and XP loss and just participated cuz there is no XP loss and hitting players thousands of levels under them, so if these are the ones who will make ladder better I don't want them and would prefer 50 real PvPers or people who aren't afraid of XP loss than 200 phony PvPers

Let's not forget the major flaw in this latest season which has already been argued from both sides, the fact that instead of a random ending date there was one set in stone. This of course allowed for the pillow brigade to sit idly by, with no xp loss of course, and then use all their overpowered pots and chests(yes, way overpowered and clarified by the sheer number of unresolved combats) and make a mockery of the same system they continue to praise now. I only had two issues with the seasons and hope that in future seasons(global events) that these get resolved. First, do not openly state an ending date. By letting it remain random it will increase daily activity as players hit and defend in the hopes to get the prize at the end. Second, reintroduce xp loss and allow for an opt out. This way, the pillow brigade will be able to fully understand the costs involved in working towards those prizes and while they'll never respect the true pvpers they will still be privy to actually having to earn their spots through blood and tears.

 

The current ladder needs to see new prizes/rewards, and as before, the levelers know that they'll be able to trade or buy from ah just as easily as those on the ladder. After all, most of the true levelers also play other aspects of the game and still make quite a substantial amount of fsps to allow them to get these items from the pvpers. Arena players sold arena items at premium at one point, god forbid the titan...and hunters isn't really the right word...made nice profits from titan items, so why is it such a huge deal if pvpers can make some profit from the area of the game that they chose to excel at?



#55 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:19

so you claimed that the season rewards are on par with the PvP ladder rewards?

basing it on XP loss in the season ???

 

BUT there is no XP LOSS in the season !!!

guess you missed the posts in the forums / home page where HCS announced that they removed XP LOSS from the season attacks !!!

 

so again, season attacks take NO XP !!!

 

asking you again:

so EPICPIETY, are you still claiming that the season rewards are on par with the PvP ladder rewards?

Who gives a flying anything about xp loss. Why are you so set on "hurting people" don't understand you folks. It's not weighed into it, has nothing to do with profit. Stay on topic if you want to debate.


EpicPiety, why don't you jump in on your own ladder range and let us see how great of a PvPer you are dealing with players your own level not 2000 levels below you ? Come on go ahead it shall be fun :D

Because its boring and a waste of stamina to me...Rather buff my mates and TH then waste it on garbage like the ladder.


Edited by EpicPiety, 20 August 2015 - 05:20.


#56 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:21

Let's not forget the major flaw in this latest season which has already been argued from both sides, the fact that instead of a random ending date there was one set in stone. This of course allowed for the pillow brigade to sit idly by, with no xp loss of course, and then use all their overpowered pots and chests(yes, way overpowered and clarified by the sheer number of unresolved combats) and make a mockery of the same system they continue to praise now. I only had two issues with the seasons and hope that in future seasons(global events) that these get resolved. First, do not openly state an ending date. By letting it remain random it will increase daily activity as players hit and defend in the hopes to get the prize at the end. Second, reintroduce xp loss and allow for an opt out. This way, the pillow brigade will be able to fully understand the costs involved in working towards those prizes and while they'll never respect the true pvpers they will still be privy to actually having to earn their spots through blood and tears.
 
The current ladder needs to see new prizes/rewards, and as before, the levelers know that they'll be able to trade or buy from ah just as easily as those on the ladder. After all, most of the true levelers also play other aspects of the game and still make quite a substantial amount of fsps to allow them to get these items from the pvpers. Arena players sold arena items at premium at one point, god forbid the titan...and hunters isn't really the right word...made nice profits from titan items, so why is it such a huge deal if pvpers can make some profit from the area of the game that they chose to excel at?

that's a well balanced talk especially at the last part

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#57 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:24

All in all, you guys got your chance. They made up a whole new system that wasn't perfect yet sure. But it was well on its way but you didn't want any part of it. So therefore it was reverted back to this inactive boring method of PvP. HCS will slowly fade away from caring about PvP and focus on other aspects of the game where players are more thankful.

 

- Could they have been more careful before bringing in the seasons?

 

Sure

 

- Could they have used real player testing?

 

Sure

 

That's just a lesson to be learned by the cows hopefully.


Edited by EpicPiety, 20 August 2015 - 05:26.


#58 mary4ever

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:26

Sure here are some calculations, pvp seasons you get 0 fsps

12 EPIC potions surely do not have a "value" of 0 FSPs !!! for gods sake these potions are EPIC !!! even the EPIC global potions (darksun was last with 10 EPIC potions) have more "value" than the 3,5 helhearts items or 3,5 - 10,5 fsps !!! to go even further even 1 darksun potion has more "value" than the 3,5 helhearts items or 3,5 - 10,5 fsps !!!  surely i'm following.

PvP ladder is worlds easier.

that is not true, giving you an EXAMPLE:

on the season (lasts 21 days) you could just buff up and drink potions on the last hour/s and hit your way to the top, for 20 days you can let others hit you and do not need to spend a single resource because you do not lose anything on the season

on the PvP ladder you can not spend a single resource for the 1st 22-23 or so hours BUT you will get smashed & lose a lot of XP + durability until then !!!

you can then try to hit your way to the top on the PvP ladder after 22-23 hours BUT might need to keep buffed up & defend for 2-26 hours because the reset is randomly between 24-48 hours !!!

if I am not mistaken then the season had a "fixed" time where it reset so you could very easily time your attacks !!!

Your battling at most 3 actives lol. Rewards are as they should. your fighting about 33x more people in seasons therefore the reward should be 33x more. Also its 12x as long. That's enough to justify :). Comes out to about x396...They line up about right.

are you implying that the season is x396 times more difficult than the PvP ladder?


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#59 EpicPiety

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:27

To some degree yes as its 33x more active in titan league alone and about 12x longer :). Basic math do it yourself. If they added a random end date like ladder it would be even more difficult.


Edited by EpicPiety, 20 August 2015 - 05:28.


#60 clock96

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:28

Who gives a flying anything about xp loss. Why are you so set on "hurting people" don't understand you folks. It's not weighed into it, has nothing to do with profit. Stay on topic if you want to debate.

Because its boring and a waste of stamina to me...Rather buff my mates and TH then waste it on garbage like the ladder.

Actually you don't want to opt-in even if there are good rewards, you seriously won't opt in because you can't manage to do real PvP, and of you think that PvP is garbage then PvP has the same opinion :) why are you talking about PvP and updating it when you don't really care about it ? Just stop talking about PvP and go edit other aspects :D And yeah XP loss is so cool and its the best thing even if I am the one losing XP, if you don't like it then don't participate in PvP ( you are doing this now so it seems like you can live without it) so please stop talking about a thing that you don't understand and don't care about :P

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