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Does FS need an accelerated level program?


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#1 Belaric

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 13:52

The ladder has 56 occupants at present.

 

16 in the bottom ladder, 20 before the last reset, many of which are new accounts. Not saying they are multis, but just a bunch of newly created accounts in the lowest rank of the ladder swelling numbers.

 

The distribution of players in the ladder also shows us possibly areas of weakness in the game.

 

5 people from 500-749, only 2 from 750-999. Last reset I believe it was 3 and 3 respectively in those bands.

 

I think that may be indicative of a general drop off in game population at those levels. I hope not, but those areas have been consistently thinner in numbers than both below and above.

 

Rewards are coming in. When the big rewards roll in, it will be interesting to see if the numbers in the ladders rise. I hope they do.

 

If they don't rise appreciably, then Elgin, we have a problem.

 

It is the game numbers that bothers me more, the lack of competitors from 500-1000, and whether that reflects a simple absence of players in those levels. Folk can join, play a few hundred, get bored or distracted and stop. I have noted in my guild a decent number of really good players have joined, committed to the game, played great until 200-600 and then just fallen away. Far more join and fade instantly at level 50, but that 200-600 pattern is more worrying. It has been a long time since someone punched on through to 1000+. And then quit. Maybe it is just us! LOL!!

 

So this isn't really about the ladder but about the wider game. Do we need an accelerated program to get players through more than just the first 100 levels, but more like the first 1000? If so, what should it look like?

 

I know Gutie had some ideas a while back. Involving accelerating XP gain across the board for all players up to the 900's I think. I can't find the thread unfortunately. I think something like that has merit now, after looking at the distributions on the ladder. 

 

Can we go as far as pay to win and have join at 1 for free, join at 250 for X$ 500 for Y$, 750 for Z$?

 

Or have XP events only for players under 1000 so they can play catch up and enjoy the rush of gaining levels faster? Which would also make EOC not seem quite so terribly far away.

 

Those could be separate events, run more frequently than the game wide 2X events (say half way between the two we have per year, so folk under 1000 would have 4 2X events a year, the rest of us over 1000 just 2.)

 

Or have under 1000's have a triple XP when those above have the 2X XP event. Someting to help them out.

 

Or complete the epic quest chain at the start of the game and have it give rewards of potions that yield 2 and 3X XP, but they are only awardable to players who are under level 500.

 

Anything to boost players' ability to get well advanced into the game and even out player distribution through the levels, and bring more life, and trade to all areas of the game. 


Edited by Belaric, 28 August 2015 - 14:07.

Good-bye and hello, as always.


#2 EpicPiety

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:18

Just yes



#3 Jenne

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:28

I can relate to that 200-600 pattern as I'm beginning to feel bored now that the Season is gone, and the BB was reverted back. I feel like a zombie mindlessly gaining levels. The X2 EXP Event for noob is nice but goodluck reaching out for other old player as this makes it unfair for them (As if being old is not enough).

 

As for starting a VL of 250, 500, 750. -1 As I think everybody should go through Xind. Lol. But how about a certain pack for "NEW" people who's willing to spend serious bucks? A Pack contains 100K Reserve which cost 2K FSP or certain $.



#4 HappyDays

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:29

It could be just me, but I doubt I am going to write in my calendar, remember 4x events per year to gain levels. 

 

I think you were on to something when you discussed leveling faster in general for anyone under lvl 1000, in my mind at least for me I am never going to be bothered to remember to come back for xp events. At least I could see the leveling faster all the time when I logged in if it was just in general leveling was sped up. 

 

As far as pay to win goes for levels. If someone wants to do that, hell let them. There is what, 2500 levels in the game. letting them buy 750 levels is not barely denting the climb and considering they invested, might make them less likely to leave. 

 

People might just get burnt out as this game is such a grind. I know I do not fear missing logging in anymore or missing using max stam as I am so far behind as is, what is the difference.


Edited by HappyDays, 28 August 2015 - 14:32.


#5 yodamus

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:52

excellent post,  yes there is a big problem..my take on this is that once a player gets to around level 100-500 they realize a few things:

 

they realize that eoc is years away ( those that think players can do 100's if not 1000 levels in a year are not being real, most dont have time or money to do that..only a rare few do it..and some think that because a few can do ..all can do it..not reality..)

 

they slowly see where the haves and have nots get more separated..- arena for example..if level 50-500..very little to join- eoc..can join everything.., titan hunting the same..se hunting the same..yes i know that is part of being eoc..but there is too much emphasize on eoc than lower level players..

 

they see things like composing are a major grind...they see the ladder as being dead..they see bb being dead..seeing parts of the game not being very active is a turn-off

 

they see they are way way way behind in the game..and yes, gutie made a thread for faster xp gain..i added a few ideas to it ( like 2x xp potions that can only be found and only be used by players below level 200 and only found in those realms, for 60 minutes)..but most all the eoc players griped and whined about this, saying it is easy to level and they dont need to do it faster (using the keys as an excuse), ..as if they would reach eoc within a year or so..not reality..

 

even worse, and i was going to make a thread about this- not many players left around to help the noobies..there were plenty of us in global chat to help..most all of us are either banned permanantly from gc or have left the game due to bans...most bans were for very bad reasons- like mine ( i complained to bg, almost everyday about arena having level 2600-3300 tourneys, he got tired of it and ban me for life from gc, instead of fixing the problem, thankfully hoof saw the issue and fixed it within 1 day) ..seen many other similar instances..way to go..ban the helping players..

 

overall..the game does need to help in whatever way it can to keep players around longer- levels 50-200 is abut where most quit..i have seen it in my own guild for years..it takes about that long for them to realize the game is not geared for them


Edited by yodamus, 28 August 2015 - 14:59.


#6 Hoofmaster

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:59

It might feel a little unfair to have xp events for only players below a certain level, but I think it may be worth exploring the idea of applying an increase to the xp gained below a certain level (maybe some percentage of the current max content level) to give new players a better chance to catch up with players who have been playing for ages.



#7 Kedyn

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 15:32

It might feel a little unfair to have xp events for only players below a certain level, but I think it may be worth exploring the idea of applying an increase to the xp gained below a certain level (maybe some percentage of the current max content level) to give new players a better chance to catch up with players who have been playing for ages.

 

I think Bel's post has merit. Even though it's "unfair" to those above the level for the XP bonus, maybe you don't even need to express it in a full-out post. Maybe you can have "surprise" events for those levels, where some players will be able to take advantage, and others not.

 

You hit on a point that I'd like to expand on - many medals for newer players are simply out of reach. A new player most likely will never reach the top 250 players in the game, without dropping a lot of cash - plain and simple. I think we need to work ways into breathing new life into the game, even if it's at some expense of older players (we can make concessions). I don't think anyone would be opposed to seeing the game at the levels it was 5-6 years ago. 

 

The shear amount of levels between starting and hitting EoC is probably a deterrent to playing. Allowing players to level up through the ranks of the lower levels is definitely a worthwhile consideration. Whether it's increasing the XP from those monsters from 1x to maybe 1.25x at all times with some added XP events for under 1k. 

 

I think another factor adding to the "fizzle" out of players is there is no difficulty to the game. When trying to level, or most aspects in the game, you're just sitting there buying all the buffs you can, putting on the most sets to increase your stats the most, and hitting 1-8. There is no difficulty with the buffs that have been granted anymore. There is no "well if I switch to this set, I may be able to 2-hit safely", or "if I switch out these 3-4 pieces of equipment, I'm able to take this monster on". It really is "okay let me look at the guide to see what gear I need, pull all buffs including composing potions and just mindlessly hit the keys". There is no difficulty anymore in hunting - absolutely none. Sure there are some levels (prior to level 60 composed pots), where 1 hitting was almost impossible - not anymore. It's part of the reason I enjoy GVG and PVP - at least there is some variety and thinking behind it when dealing with other players that understand math and the buffs/stats. 



#8 Pardoux

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 21:59


I think another factor adding to the "fizzle" out of players is there is no difficulty to the game. When trying to level, or most aspects in the game, you're just sitting there buying all the buffs you can, putting on the most sets to increase your stats the most, and hitting 1-8. There is no difficulty with the buffs that have been granted anymore. There is no "well if I switch to this set, I may be able to 2-hit safely", or "if I switch out these 3-4 pieces of equipment, I'm able to take this monster on". It really is "okay let me look at the guide to see what gear I need, pull all buffs including composing potions and just mindlessly hit the keys". There is no difficulty anymore in hunting - absolutely none.

 

I agree with the above statement wholeheartedly - but, we as players are the architects of our own demise in the scenario above.

 

1. We wanted new, better gear

2. We wanted new, better buffs

3. And now, we wanted new, better and higher level potions

 

So, what has to happen now to give the game challenge back ? - levelling has to be made more difficult, monsters need to have stats that make players THINK about what to wear, to THINK that they may have to CHANGE gear in a hunt to progress safely ?

 

BUT, if we do that, guess what will happen ?

 

See points 1, 2 and 3 above :(

 

We, as players, have been pandered to for too long now for content to revert back to the "good old days" where gear lasted a few levels, not a few HUNDRED levels ...


Edited by Pardoux, 28 August 2015 - 22:01.

Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#9 Egami

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 22:35

As usual, I'd like to applaud Belaric on an extremely well thought out and constructed thread with several constructive suggestions. 

 

That said, I don't agree with half of it, lmao.

 

However, that's because of my personal point of view that I think is fully debatable. It is still a worthwhile idea, even if I don't agree point per point.

 

On my side, I don't think shifting the quit range from 200-600 to, say, 1k-1.4k is a solution. I believe that leveling has gotten progressively easier throughout the game history and I haven't really seen a direct positive effect from that. In fact, I'm concerned that the super-levelling that happens at lower levels "might" be a factor in the discouragement that later hits at higher levels.

 

I also disagree that the distance between level 1 and EOC is an issue. In fact, despite being at 1,120ish not having leveled for a year and a half, I applaud each and every content update for those up there. I think it's key. I will be there someday. 

 

Again, all that is just my personal opinion. I don't know if people share it or not... and it is 100% debateable. I'm just throwing my two cents out there. 

 

 

Or complete the epic quest chain at the start of the game and have it give rewards of potions that yield 2 and 3X XP, but they are only awardable to players who are under level 500.

 

Anything to boost players' ability to get well advanced into the game and even out player distribution through the levels, and bring more life, and trade to all areas of the game. 

 

I chose this out of everything to quote because it seemed the most interesting idea to me. I will openly admit that I have a not-so-secret desire to see the next phase of the Epic Quest.

 

For a hopefully constructive twist... I would like to see rewards from the Epic Quest based from a "Tutorial" point of view. A # XP post should be accompanied by an explanation from the game character that presents it to the player. Something like a "use this when" or a "use this with". 

 

While I would suggest some of the "regular rewards" (in the line of max stam, blah, blah) be included for everyone, I would add in other factors which are "optional".

 

As an example: Character says you have achieved X as your prize. Then, in addition, you may obtain, say, a prestige pot. Click if you are interested. The click explains what prestige does... the well-explained challenge to obtain the potion would be something related to the ideology of the pot. Since it's prestige in this case, it would PvP oriented. The ladder or seasons or smacking players or getting on the BB. Obviously not Arena based. The challenge would be optional and could be done at any time. It would NOT block the progress in the quest. It doesn't even necessarily have to require "wins"... 

 

In short, I would hope it would be education based. I'd like to see optional "rewards" dedicated towards exploring all aspects of the game. 



#10 Undjuvion

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 22:40

a couple of times ive supported ideas like this, i think what might be better and actually what people WANT is more new guys entering, then they makes friends and get competitive and race through the levels trying to dominate and show the big guns what they are made of :)



#11 Pythia

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 00:17

I remember when I was coming up on 190 and leveling was getting a little harder, yes it does do that.  lol

 

That's the time I started buying other potions in the bazaar. Berserkers, Sluge Brew,  and others I found it helped a lot.  I used a variety of different potions to find the ones that did what I wanted done.

 

Now I use Fatality, Lib, DC, Potion of fury, the size doubler I like for the amount of stam I have and a few other potions.

 

If a player does not know about potion use it will be harder than if someone points it out to them. When they are just getting started and I notice, I point out the two combo potions in the upgrade section that you can buy  for cash or tokens. 1000 gold is not hard to get and if they don't have it I'd give it.  I can afford that now. :)

 

I spend quite a bit of time looking at players: Their bio, buffs, gear and anything else that catches my eye. I'm curious.



#12 Pythia

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 00:33

Do you think getting hit in GvG at very  low levels might cause some players to give up and quit?  (I've seen a lot of  low level inactive players)  :/

 

If I'm on and one pops up, I'll buff as long as I have the stam to do that.

 

I wonder about that, along with all the other things I think about.



#13 Filletminion

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:10

While agreeing with the sentiment behind the thread, Nothing will change except increasing the level people quit at because the "going gets Hard".

 

People complain about it being hard to get  to Eoc it is but is that what the game is really about? Cause if it is I have had nothing to do for over 2 months and Fail to see how Eoc could be motivation to actually play the game as a pure leveller.

 

Games are supposed to be fun that bring enjoyment and help people laugh and smile , All to often in FS I see people trying their darndest in one way or another to stop others having fun in all parts of the game It is like "Oh look they are having fun over there quick lets stop it"

 

I could not care less which guild or player is # 1 this or that there is no measure of who uses stam the most efficiently or buffs not taking away from those who think its important it is totally pointless to ME.

 

The Mentality of being the "best" at this or that came into the game around 2009 with any importance attached which meant that 1 group of players decided they were going to dominate all other players to prove they are the "best" it is this single mindset that continues to pervade all of the game now. Unless it changes it wont be long before we see 100 players online.



#14 clock96

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:24

I think this is an issue, I am an old player, playing since 2009, players who joined in my same month and year are EOCers now and I am struggling at going from lvl: 311 to VL: 315 LOL, blame my love to GvG and PvP, and I look to players ib my range who joined last year for example, and I say, what are they really going for ? They will never everrrrr reach EOC, what is their goal ? They are lvl 300 and EOC right now is 2600 so by the time they get to 2600 the EOC may rise to lvl 6000 or 7000, there is no end here, so I would really understand why players quit that fast, they get to 500 or 600 then they realize they are never getting there, and you think lvl 1000 is a high level ? Those currently at lvl 1000 also will neverr everrrrrr get to EOC, 1600 is also a huge lvl gap, so actually the only reason I am still playing this game is PvP, we all know FS isn't a popular game, yeah 2000 people active all around is really a very bad number for an online game, I was thinking that the population will increase after FS becomes a mobile game app, the baddest mobile game app has like 50K downloads, that's IMO equal to the players FS has ever gotten active, so after the work on the mobile app is done I think we will see a huge inc in population, an increase that I am afraid HCS won't keep up with, I mean like really, HCS can't do anything without being afraid of the feedback on it, they can't stand the feedback of 2000 active players (like 50 on the forums) so I can't imagine what they will ever do when FS is a mobile app and has like 50K players, I can already imagine HCS PMing each player saying what do you think of our latest additions, I play a lot of mobile game apps, big and small games, and the game developera manage to make all players happy in all aspects, HCS can't currently handle making 2000 players on the same side, what can they make with 50K ? So I think this is the bigger problem here as with the current level gap, those 50K new players will look and see how slow hunting is and the huge 2600+ gap they will quite from day 1, gamers like play game for a max of a Few months then they delete it, they won't give the game a chance for 6 years like we did, players who play FS for a lot of years like me now have it as a daily routine but if I was a new player, I really wouldn't see why I should play FS

clock96.gif


#15 andyvince

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 04:09

It might feel a little unfair to have xp events for only players below a certain level, but I think it may be worth exploring the idea of applying an increase to the xp gained below a certain level (maybe some percentage of the current max content level) to give new players a better chance to catch up with players who have been playing for ages.

I was thinking a new type of Buff that +% per point based on the difference between the current ''Max Lvl'' and "Lvl of player using this Buff " call Catch-Up Boost or something.

As someone else had said above, not everyone wants to reach EOC as fast and easy as possible. I'm at low Lvl due to  my own choice, not because it's hard to Lvl up. Personally I like to have a choice and finding' the bonus Exp like 'x2 multiplier under Lvl 100' sometimes hurting.



#16 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 04:52

I've suggested this on the past, but I'm not sure if I would really like the idea after all.

Special XP Event:

1~750 = 4x XP.
751~1200 = 3x XP.
1201~2000 = 2x XP.
2001+ = 1.5x XP.

That preserving the actual 2x XP Events, that would be an additional XP event happening once a year, I think that could help raising the level for everyone, and making the game more closed to higher levels.

Or just implement a bigger XP Rate for lower levels, that will encourage players to stay longer.



#17 bloody18

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 05:02

On the same topic ,and I know I have suggested this before.. How about running double stam gain periods, FOR ALL LEVELS. All of us would greatly appreciate an accelrated stam bank. Or running QUEST's or events that provide reserve stam as a reward. The benefit of giving reserve stam as a reward is that is doesnt matter if u have 200K in stam or 3000 stam bank .. its same for everyone! ..



#18 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 05:13

On the same topic ,and I know I have suggested this before.. How about running double stam gain periods, FOR ALL LEVELS. All of us would greatly appreciate an accelrated stam bank. Or running QUEST's or events that provide reserve stam as a reward. The benefit of giving reserve stam as a reward is that is doesnt matter if u have 200K in stam or 3000 stam bank .. its same for everyone! ..

Stamina Potions would be a nice addition for some Global Quests.



#19 Belaric

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 07:11

It might feel a little unfair to have xp events for only players below a certain level, but I think it may be worth exploring the idea of applying an increase to the xp gained below a certain level (maybe some percentage of the current max content level) to give new players a better chance to catch up with players who have been playing for ages.

 

1) Events are fun.

 

People like to feel special and paid attention to.

 

If you have an event for extra XP for 0-250 this week, 750-1250 the next week. 500-750 the week after etc. etc. - folk are going to be interested, they might keep logging in to see if their band gets the bonus XP event that week. (or period of days/hours - whatever you choose!)

 

It would be an extra incentive to keep playing.

 

The bonus need not be as much as 2x, (though why not?) but it should be significant, to allow low to mid level characters to advance if they wish it, and to feel paid attention to by the game.

 

That alone is a big draw. But this would mean you run regular multiplier on X level monsters for a range in game, and announce it to all.

 

I say this in recognition of I think Happy Days who pointed out that folk are not going to wait 3 - 6 months for their candy.

 

Especially not when the game goes mobile.

 

If the game incorporates regular sectional XP boost events everyone in those ranges will be motivated to keep logging in and hopefully cash in on their bonus week/time period, AND, know that as they advance, they will qualify for further bonus time periods in the higher levels! A veritable XP bonanza, and HCS can control which areas get what and when - you can control the "randomness" of the bands to keep players interested depending on the data you are receiving in terms of player activity. 

 

2) Grade on a curve is also fine - if you are open to increasing XP gain across the board for lower levels as determined by their distance from EOC (or some other parameter) that can work. But it is silent. Zero fanfare.

 

If it is built in, people take it for granted - hence better to go with events and announcements and the appearance of freebies.

 

The end result could be the same with rotated level events, but with lots more player excitement than a simple formula inserted to increase XP gain for all that new players will have no idea they are benefitting from and just take for granted.

 

Keep the game fresh. Give people reasons to log in. A simple adjustment to XP gain to allow lower level characters to catch up with higher does not do that.

 

A rolling semi random sequence of 2x (or something else significant) XP events by level band does. Just don't submit it to your RNG, it is weird and streaky.

 

3) These kinds of random events that grant big bonuses will also be useful, if rotated regularly enough, in keeping mobile players online once they join. Things need to be happening often to keep the ADD generation interested. (Just sayin')

 

This game has loads of different activities to follow, but level gain is still central, and will be the first interest of most newbs.

 

Once hooked, other aspects like titan hunting, PvP, arena, GvG, inventing can be explored. 

 

 

My point,  Hoof, is that a simple increase XP gain for lower levels may help folk catch up, but it won't make the game more fun.

 

XP Events tailored to level areas will make people in those levels feel appreciated, and will be fun for them.

 

 

 

So now I'm apparently all for XP events rotated across level bands. Not where I started! 


Good-bye and hello, as always.


#20 Pardoux

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:22

Personally, I fail to see why reaching EOC is a deciding factor in player retention ?

 

For me, if I were starting the game now, I'd see a game with thousands of levels of contents ahead of me, a myriad of other game options and think "this could be good" - there's longevity here ...

 

I like games with a lot of content ...

 

Why take the motorway / freeway when you can take the scenic route and enjoy it more ...


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...



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