I appreciate everyone who has replied in this topic. It can be a heated subject for many. The walls of text are a bit overwhelming for me, though. That's why I had stopped posting in this topic and was letting Luis do his thing. I'll reply as best I can.
I can't speak for the reasons why bounties are expiring. I know there is a relic war going on and that's part of it. But bounties were not typically being left to expire before this change. Bounty hunters typically take no part in whatever the drama is that leads to people being on the board. Our job is to clear the bounties, not get involved. (Guild wars and bounty hunting are 2 separate things, from my POV) And prior to this change, the bounties were cleared unless someone put in the effort to fight off clearers.
From my POV, the bounty hunters aren't going to waste their money, bounty tickets, buffs, and now xp to clear someone much higher level then them. There is no incentive to even try, which is why I believe so many bounties are being left to expire. I've been specifically told by players they aren't going to pay HCS to advertise who's hitting them for 2 days, which is essentially all they're doing at this point. That kills the number of bounties on the board, specifically because there is no reason to try.
Bounty hunters already face the risk of a counter bounty. Yes, I know you would like to see counter bounties gone. But those of us who play the board know the risks and accept them. Why more punishment for those of us willing to help those who post the bounties?
Conserve does not kick in 100% of the time. The bounty hunters who are clearing bounties use it to save their stam, which bounty hunting sucks up. Another downfall for the hunters.
I think that is all I need to say at this point. I wanted to make sure HCS is aware that is what is happening now. And to ask if that was their intention.
Hi Calista - sorry for my walls of text, but when a subject is complex, a one liner does not always cut it.
I agree that guild wars and bounty hunting are separate, and should be, but on the board, who can tell the difference, if you are not involved?
So do you believe that bounty hunters should be able to clear people much higher level than them?
Why?
It seems to me that bounty hunters should be going after folk near their own level and below. Too high a level above? Leave it to bounty hunters at a level that can compete effectively with their target, no?
And how were these lower level players clearing bounties in the past when XP loss was not active? Was it through repeated attacks and waiting for a nice combination of buffs to activate? That approach would lead to XP loss now when the needed combinations do not align.
Why should players who need that level of assistance in terms of luck buffs activating even be trying to take on those bounties? Should a level 30 be able to execute a bounty on a level 2500? (as a stupidly extreme example) Is that what you want in PvP?
Is it the case now that higher level players unbuffed and offline cannot be defeated?
In stam gain epics that is certainly not the case.
In offline defensive gear (armor or defence based) and unbuffed a buffed player many levels lower can penetrate their defences without utilising luck buffs to get there.
It seems you are arguing for folk who are realistically out of the range to really be able to hit someone with any regularity, to still be given a chance to clear bounties that should be beyond their capability. Why should that be encouraged?
Calista: " I've been specifically told by players they aren't going to pay HCS to advertise who's hitting them for 2 days, which is essentially all they're doing at this point."
Please explain this - I freely admit I do not understand the point you are making. How does HCS advertise who is trying to clear bounties/hit them for 2 days? Is this a FSH function I don't see as I don't use it?
Yes I believe that no counter bounties would improve the health of the BB, and the PvP ecosystem as a whole, but that is only my opinion.
I no longer want them gone, (I did in the past and argued for it in a topic of my creation) I was at pains to point that out earlier. I think keeping them kills the BB, and keeps PvP marginalised, but if that is what PvP players want, I'm not going to argue against it anymore. I will keep stating why I think it is a mistake, but I think that until PvP players agree themselves that it no longer serves a useful purpose, and no longer expands their game, that any attempt to remove it is futile. As a result, and as I said up thread earlier, I think you are welcome to keep CB, and keep the desert of PvP it has created.
You ask: Why more punishment for those of us willing to help those who post bounties?
Well, by your own admission there are targets you can hit quite safely when offline and unbuffed. Why is XP loss on a failed hit a problem there? The only problem is on claiming a bounty on a player who is realistically out of range and defending him or herself: BUT - who commands a higher and therefore possibly profitable bounty.
The problem therefore is why are there not bounty hunters at that level willing to take that bounty?
Why should the bounty board be reliant on players of lower level collecting bounties on high level players?
Where is the possibility of profit? If the only profit is in taking on players way above your level - that needs to be addressed.
Conserve saving stam for the BH I have no problem with. No it does not kick in 100% of the time, but enough to render the 2X XP loss argument a bit exaggerated for as long as it saves XP as well as stam.
Conserve saving XP loss on the target being hit makes no sense. Save the BH stam - sure. Save the target's XP loss? Why? It makes zero logical sense (outside of the logic employed by the program as coded), but has been enjoyed as a loophole for years. Which most of us only found out about when players complained that the loophole had been closed. And successfully campaigned to have reopened. But this means that knowledge has leaked out into he wider community, and fewer people again feel like posting bounties, as the punishment is even less than the 2x XP loss advertised.
To be clear.
I am in favour of making bounty hunting profitable.
I support lowering the cost of BH tickets.
I think the game should augment bounty pots posted by players with gold drawn from the gold sunk by gold hits, as long as gold sunk from gold hits is available. (Guild wars could eat up this pot of gold and maybe should be considered separately? A Vendetta Board, rather than a Bounty Board?))
I think random prizes for bounty hunting like the bounty pot should be reintroduced as an incentive. But it will need to be truly random. To anyone doing 1 hit at any time. To prevent any attempt at forming cartels to suck up the bounty pot. Invent a new god: Glosvir the Hunter who randomly blesses any who score a hit on a difficult prey.
I do believe that as long as counter bounties are allowed independent bounty hunters will not truly exist in this game, they will always have to play by the rules of the groups who can counter bounty them out of the field. This is my belief, not a stated fact.
I do not believe that XP loss on the BB for failed attacks is the reason bounties are going uncollected.
If the BB relies on bounty hunters hundreds of levels lower than their opponents clearing bounties then it is in even worse shape than I thought.
Ultimately - when recently was the BB genuinely active?
The Seasons.
(under very different rules - but they helped magnify PvP activity, unlike CB (which was not active in the seasons!), which does not add PvP activity - because if CB really does add to PVP activity - why is there not more activity on the BB? Answer - because CB silences PvP, and does not promote it, but still some proponents of the PvP game cling to it.)
If Counter bounty meant 3-4 pages of BB activity a day, I would not be here arguing against its efficacy. It is that simple.
Before that, the last time the BB was truly active was during the GXP mining craze. Other than that the BB, as currently constituted, has been minimally active. For years.
HCS - you have some mountains to climb with PvP. It will never be for everyone in the game. For some, it is everything in the game.