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#121 EpicPiety

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 17:25

Yeah the point being made is that the 75% 'rule' used to apply to everything. Anything that was deemed important need an overwhelming majority before it would be passed. He didn't state it on that post, but since it had already been established for YEARS that this was the way things worked it should perhaps of been made clear that a mere 51% (titan style) majority would suffice.

The whole poll was corrupt :P... Everyone knows it but the people that got their way obviously don't want to speak up haha... Changing this rule means we should *for the sake of INTEGRITY ^_^ * re-poll everything that needed 75% to pass. Also everything added to the game due to organized lobbying should be polled as well. I really like the idea of polling EVERY major change before adding. Oh yea and one more thing accounts should need to be AT LEAST 2 months old to vote.


Edited by EpicPiety, 11 September 2015 - 17:32.


#122 Calista

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 17:39

Sorry, it's the frustration talking. We're wanting to try this method for a while. It's not a new method by any means and we have used it across the game before. We'd like to give it a try across multiple facets of the game for now. My personal thoughts on this are as follows (bearing in mind they would be discussed with Hoofmaster and Mojawk as all the changes we implement are.)

Ladder : Use Realm & Cave LE items, SE items & Arena Crystalline.

Arena : Use Realm & Cave LE items, SE items & Ladder items. Heck, as it's crystalline (which only has a finite life) we can use the new Ladder rewards. Just use them when they are down to zero durability.

Epics : Probably not used for an initial drop but we can certainly look at using the same stuff I mention above for augmenting Epics into new gear, absorbing excess items from multiple areas of the game again.

SE and LE drops? Not as likely, I admit as they are a differing type of event, same as Globals, after a fashion. They don't go away unless used for composing frags. Remember, composing was implemented specifically to absorb excess items while rewarding those who work at it with the ability to create knifty potions for themselves and their Guild.

Additionally, I did mention I'd be happy to put up an in-game poll regarding unbinding the Ladder resources but was pretty quickly shot down. No one else has brought that up. Heck, I could put one live over the weekend and get the results on Monday afternoon.

 

Thanks for the list of idea you have in mind. That's what I was looking for. And sadly, it also highlights my concern. Can't you see how limiting this is to the ladder players vs. every other type of game player there is? You mention having the arena use items, but are you going to bind the arena items so that the arena players have to use these items like the ladder players? You clearly say you won't do the same with epics, which is titan drops, SE or LE items. We've tried unbinding the ladder rewards and it killed the ladder quickly. Unbinding them now is going to go the same way. But the recent update still makes things even harder on the ladder players without limiting the other players in the game. In fact, it forces the ladder players to depend on everyone else to do anything with their rewards while giving them no value. It's a no win situation, with the ladder losing out no matter which way it goes.


 


#123 Mister Doom

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:03

The whole poll was corrupt :P... Everyone knows it but the people that got their way obviously don't want to speak up haha... Changing this rule means we should *for the sake of INTEGRITY ^_^ * re-poll everything that needed 75% to pass. Also everything added to the game due to organized lobbying should be polled as well. I really like the idea of polling EVERY major change before adding. Oh yea and one more thing accounts should need to be AT LEAST 2 months old to vote.

 

I'm of the almost complete opposite opinion I'm afraid. I think we've become FAR too entitled.

 

We shouldn't poll a single thing, not one.

Our only influence should come from what we play and what we don't play.

We take what HCS gives us. Report bugs etc of course, but not try and change things, and certainly not before they've even been given a chance.

 

Without pointing fingers (Except perhaps to myself) I believe we've become a population of over entitled spoilt brats who will never EVER be happy as long as we believe we can affect changes simply by screaming as loud as we can.


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#124 Kedyn

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:10

Thanks for the list of idea you have in mind. That's what I was looking for. And sadly, it also highlights my concern. Can't you see how limiting this is to the ladder players vs. every other type of game player there is? You mention having the arena use items, but are you going to bind the arena items so that the arena players have to use these items like the ladder players? You clearly say you won't do the same with epics, which is titan drops, SE or LE items. We've tried unbinding the ladder rewards and it killed the ladder quickly. Unbinding them now is going to go the same way. But the recent update still makes things even harder on the ladder players without limiting the other players in the game. In fact, it forces the ladder players to depend on everyone else to do anything with their rewards while giving them no value. It's a no win situation, with the ladder losing out no matter which way it goes.

 

I have to agree with some of the points you made here. The biggest issue is that if you unbind the ladder rewards, then it I think will hurt the ladder participation even more. Sure you'll still get those players who are on there for the tokens, the players who want dominance ticks and the players who want smasher ticks. However, you might cut out the players who are now joining the ladder (we'd have to see the uptick/downtick after a few resets) to try to grab tokens to invent their own sets. 

 

I'm definitely torn on the poll myself. I would like to see the items unbound, as the restriction that plagued PVP players / ladder rewards is now the same as the other areas (arena, titans, etc). However, I know that will probably end up reducing the need for players to join the ladders, at least until the players who have hoards of tokens have spent them profiting on selling their rewards. 

 

I haven't voted in the poll, and I don't know if I will right away. I feel like I really need to take some time to lay out the pros/cons of each choice. 



#125 EpicPiety

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:11

I'm of the almost complete opposite opinion I'm afraid. I think we've become FAR too entitled.

 

We shouldn't poll a single thing, not one.

Our only influence should come from what we play and what we don't play.

We take what HCS gives us. Report bugs etc of course, but not try and change things, and certainly not before they've even been given a chance.

 

Without pointing fingers (Except perhaps to myself) I believe we've become a population of over entitled spoilt brats who will never EVER be happy as long as we believe we can affect changes simply by screaming as loud as we can.

Organized lobbying has been a problem for a long time... It's the forums most powerful tool...As well as the most corrupt tool...Still has plenty of influence but polls tone it down a tad though.


Edited by EpicPiety, 11 September 2015 - 18:12.


#126 yodamus

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:15

not read any of the above..but here it my take;.i vote yes..dont know what others thought..reason- the pvpers would be able to sell those rewards pretty swiftly to those not wanting to pvp to make those invents..at some time ( it could take a few weeks) and even tho there are probably 1000's of pvp tokens out there..those resources from pvp will become hard to get and players will then possibly have to try pvp to get some tokens to get those rewards or pay a stiff price since supply will shrink for demand

 

but if more players were to join each ladder bracket...let say 10-20 in each bracket and only 3 get tokens,will not take long before 10-20 goes away as players will not lose xp, stam, buffs, gold to get nothing each and every time..

 

therefore, needs to be more tokens and places paid out in each of the given brackets..maybe a % payout..more players in bracket, more players get paid tokens..if few players.few get paid. simple enough



#127 sweetlou

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:19

Thanks for the list of idea you have in mind. That's what I was looking for. And sadly, it also highlights my concern. Can't you see how limiting this is to the ladder players vs. every other type of game player there is? You mention having the arena use items, but are you going to bind the arena items so that the arena players have to use these items like the ladder players? You clearly say you won't do the same with epics, which is titan drops, SE or LE items. We've tried unbinding the ladder rewards and it killed the ladder quickly. Unbinding them now is going to go the same way. But the recent update still makes things even harder on the ladder players without limiting the other players in the game. In fact, it forces the ladder players to depend on everyone else to do anything with their rewards while giving them no value. It's a no win situation, with the ladder losing out no matter which way it goes.

I strongly agree. I think it does greatly limit player rewards specifically for Ladder players. Why? Yes before we've had cross aspect rewards but what successes have we seen? Show us some evidence. I have no problem increasing the difficulty required to gain a reward, in fact I applaud it. HOWEVER, why would you not bring this difficulty to a segment of the game that already has wide popularity because of the rewards like Titan Hunting? Improve those rewards slightly( add a +1 stam to each) and ask that say Ladder, Arena, or whatever gear be needed to make the reward. You want to experiment on the Ladder and see how it fairs? Thanks a lot! The Ldder has been neglected for as long as the game has existed. There aren't even any new decent direct rewards(like potions) that are worth the effort to play as it is. So besides Cloak150 there's nothing.


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#128 Hoofmaster

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:21

Note the polls we run in-game are generally to gauge the opinion of the community. We won't necessarily always go with a change based on the poll results, but we will take it into account when we chat it over internally with the team.



#129 Mister Doom

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:26

I just wish you'd put your foot down.

Say, "This is how it is. We've spent a lot of time and resources creating this and we are going to see it through."

 

Then if a few months down the line it is flourishing you can be smug and say I told you So! If not, you look at your statistics and fix it. You don't need us to keep telling you what to do Hoof. We really aren't very good at it.

 

Look at what we've done. We pretty much bullied you guys into giving us 2 stat boring, supremely overpowered LE sets. Ridiculous potions that take away all need to think. I mean Omacaz?? WTF, single-handedly destroyed any hopes of creating hard to invent, valuable items right there.

 

Basically I'm saying, you're being too nice. We WILL and have repeatedly taken advantage of that.


Edited by Mister Doom, 11 September 2015 - 18:27.

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#130 Hoofmaster

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:29

There aren't even any new decent direct rewards(like potions) that are worth the effort to play as it is. So besides Cloak150 there's nothing.

 

It would be great if you could post specifically what you would like to see added on the PvP Ladder Rewards thread then we can take a look and see if it would be viable.

 

I did have a look through the thread but could only find a post about having equipment with 3 different stat points.



#131 Undjuvion

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 18:53

I just wish you'd put your foot down.

Say, "This is how it is. We've spent a lot of time and resources creating this and we are going to see it through."

 

Then if a few months down the line it is flourishing you can be smug and say I told you So! If not, you look at your statistics and fix it. You don't need us to keep telling you what to do Hoof. We really aren't very good at it.

 

Look at what we've done. We pretty much bullied you guys into giving us 2 stat boring, supremely overpowered LE sets. Ridiculous potions that take away all need to think. I mean Omacaz?? WTF, single-handedly destroyed any hopes of creating hard to invent, valuable items right there.

 

Basically I'm saying, you're being too nice. We WILL and have repeatedly taken advantage of that.

 

i said that in a post i made which i withdrew once before hcs saw it, was a lil scathing etc, one thing i defined was just that mr doom, put that manly foot on the ground and say like it or lump it, u like it or walk ;)



#132 johnagod

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:00

I just wish you'd put your foot down.

Say, "This is how it is. We've spent a lot of time and resources creating this and we are going to see it through."

 

Then if a few months down the line it is flourishing you can be smug and say I told you So! If not, you look at your statistics and fix it. You don't need us to keep telling you what to do Hoof. We really aren't very good at it.

 

Look at what we've done. We pretty much bullied you guys into giving us 2 stat boring, supremely overpowered LE sets. Ridiculous potions that take away all need to think. I mean Omacaz?? WTF, single-handedly destroyed any hopes of creating hard to invent, valuable items right there.

 

Basically I'm saying, you're being too nice. We WILL and have repeatedly taken advantage of that.

 

Very true, unfortunately. I was actually thinking of this the other day. The 2-stat, 2 item sets have made most other sets in the game pretty useless. Don't remember the last set introduced that wasn't a 2-stat set. Omacaz has crashed the markets of so many inventable items and now I fear of what will happen over this.

 

Cows, you need to stop relying solely on what a few players on the forums want. Look what happened with the PvP seasons. WE voted (I didn't but the game as a whole did) to go back to the ladder. Now there's maybe <100 players spread across all levels partaking in the ladder. Tokens are worth pennies and now... well look at the mess we're in lol.

 

It's okay for a few players, who regularly post on the forums, to agree on an idea. But that doesn't mean it's the ideal situation for the game.



#133 EpicPiety

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:20

I just wish you'd put your foot down.
Say, "This is how it is. We've spent a lot of time and resources creating this and we are going to see it through."

Then if a few months down the line it is flourishing you can be smug and say I told you So! If not, you look at your statistics and fix it. You don't need us to keep telling you what to do Hoof. We really aren't very good at it.

Look at what we've done. We pretty much bullied you guys into giving us 2 stat boring, supremely overpowered LE sets. Ridiculous potions that take away all need to think. I mean Omacaz?? WTF, single-handedly destroyed any hopes of creating hard to invent, valuable items right there.

Basically I'm saying, you're being too nice. We WILL and have repeatedly taken advantage of that.

Indeed I can't even remember the last time the cows have came out with an update or added something to the game that players didn't hint at or ask for directly... Can they even really call FS their game anymore seeing we ask *some demand* and they put out almost no matter what it is. I can see where you look at polls as being not good doom...it's like polling an uneducated population. Most of the people have no idea the effect of voting yes or no. It probably went like well my friends are voting blah so I am too or I'm going to vote blah because I had a blah experience *personal bias and such*. How many people do you think voted no they aren't satisfied with the seasons because in the beginning it was uber buggy and people lost so many levels etc. totally on your side now about polls now that I thought it totally out. The fact that the cows went from "non negotiable the seasons are staying" to "we have reverted" because certain individuals complained and threatened the cows to quit is absurd lol.

Edited by EpicPiety, 11 September 2015 - 19:33.


#134 Undjuvion

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:22

Very true, unfortunately. I was actually thinking of this the other day. The 2-stat, 2 item sets have made most other sets in the game pretty useless. Don't remember the last set introduced that wasn't a 2-stat set. Omacaz has crashed the markets of so many inventable items and now I fear of what will happen over this.

 

Cows, you need to stop relying solely on what a few players on the forums want. Look what happened with the PvP seasons. WE voted (I didn't but the game as a whole did) to go back to the ladder. Now there's maybe <100 players spread across all levels partaking in the ladder. Tokens are worth pennies and now... well look at the mess we're in lol.

 

It's okay for a few players, who regularly post on the forums, to agree on an idea. But that doesn't mean it's the ideal situation for the game.

 

yep, every kid likes candy but is candy good if voted for, put your foot down more hcs, make a decision and stick with it, people will crumble, grow to like it or leave, probably happen either way but at least youll have self respect, in most cases that is applicable and right :)



#135 shindrak

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:27

Basically arena is part of PvP that's why its called "PvP Arena"  you can't deny that PvP is gears and stats based aspect ...

 

That's a valid reason why they should combine resources from both sides to make sets.

 

Not sure why some players trying to split this game into different sides everything should be unbound in arena and ladder shops because both are "PvP" ..


Edited by shindrak, 11 September 2015 - 19:30.


#136 Undjuvion

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:34

Basically arena is part of PvP that's why its called "PvP Arena"  you can't deny that PvP is gears and stats based aspect ...

 

That's a valid reason why they should combine resources from both sides to make sets.

 

Not sure why some players trying to split this game into different sides everything should be unbound in arena and ladder shops because both are "PvP" ..

 

there is also valid reasons why they shouldnt, not that i disagree with you shin at any major degree, i dont see any harm how it is or would feel like it would improve things to anyones advantage or disadvantage if vice versa other than less promotion of facets yet more convenience when for how much convenience you get for use of goods and effort realistically seems futile to do anything but let hcs start making calls than these constant waste of times.

 

 

edit: i know some, ill name luis incase he decides to quote me at some point for analysis/deconstruction, fact is hcs has been bogged down with member updates for years now, fact is they have been listening, its not like many years ago when game got good updates then hcs/hoof would adjust features, there is just way to much member input till we have a conglomerated mess.


Edited by Undjuvion, 11 September 2015 - 19:39.


#137 Hoofmaster

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:52

We'll always do what we feel is best for the game overall. I think it's important to listen to the community's opinions to help us understand what players like and dislike about aspects of the game, but I also agree that we need to make the final call on what actually gets implemented.

 

Note that a lot of the work is currently going into the development of the Fallen Sword app as we feel it's going to be a huge boost for the game as it will help let players who only play on smartphones / tablets discover the game and also allow current players to play while not at their computers :)

 

In addition to the work on the app, we're also trying to get more updates (and content) released faster. Hopefully everyone has already noticed this in the last couple of weeks!



#138 Undjuvion

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:54

We'll always do what we feel is best for the game overall. I think it's important to listen to the community's opinions to help us understand what players like and dislike about aspects of the game, but I also agree that we need to make the final call on what actually gets implemented.

 

Note that a lot of the work is currently going into the development of the Fallen Sword app as we feel it's going to be a huge boost for the game as it will help let players who only play on smartphones / tablets discover the game and also allow current players to play while not at their computers :)

 

In addition to the work on the app, we're also trying to get more updates (and content) released faster. Hopefully everyone has already noticed this in the last couple of weeks!

 

the app/tablet stuff is not on my radar for things BUT many many i have heard are liking that arrival so kudos!



#139 sweetlou

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 19:59

edit: i know some, ill name luis incase he decides to quote me at some point for analysis/deconstruction, fact is hcs has been bogged down with member updates for years now, fact is they have been listening, its not like many years ago when game got good updates then hcs/hoof would adjust features, there is just way to much member input till we have a conglomerated mess.

Not sure how I get dragged into that one but I wouldn't term it input, it's more of a critique or review of HCS' work. First, as players we have screamed for years that this or that needed some upgrading. Although, for the last couple years(I'll be nice) coding development lagged way behind. Nothing of substance has really been kept updated. Band aid here, there sure. Now it's to the point the whole house needs to be remodeled. Arena again, GvGs again, SEs, etc etc. That takes yep $$$ time of the Hoof. That's not easy in a small growing company.


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#140 Undjuvion

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 20:12

Not sure how I get dragged into that one but I wouldn't term it input, it's more of a critique or review of HCS' work. First, as players we have screamed for years that this or that needed some upgrading. Although, for the last couple years(I'll be nice) coding development lagged way behind. Nothing of substance has really been kept updated. Band aid here, there sure. Now it's to the point the whole house needs to be remodeled. Arena again, GvGs again, SEs, etc etc. That takes yep $$$ time of the Hoof. That's not easy in a small growing company.

 

id say you could have been nicer, i could be harsher as there was horendous delays and much not implemented BUT where i mean is every little instance of anything that could have been tweaked by a player almost has, its no longer hoof's magical creation anymore, it is the fallensword it has become, i roped you in cos you have been a firm advocate of the lack of hoof's involvement in recent times, what id like to see is a detachment from so much player input, where i would have advocated like your resonance IS IF all these years only "knowledgable" players had of been listened to over whims, creativeness and "smartness" of the many.




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