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#1 EpicPiety

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 19:16

I've always loved these ever since they were brought into the game. For many reasons...Some of those being they make for inexpensive upgrades which is very beneficial to fresh blood in the game. I would really like to see some of the upgrades expanded more. Don't see any harm in it but correct me if i'm wrong. Would be no better time than now with the expected steam release :).



#2 Pythia

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 19:31

I like that, more than 90%  of my upgrades to self have been done with gold. 



#3 Egami

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 23:52

Definitely not against. I love the gold-sink. 

 

However, HCS has to decide what is in their best interest and figure out the balance. FSP is more directly related to HCS income. 



#4 EpicPiety

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 23:55

Definitely not against. I love the gold-sink. 

 

However, HCS has to decide what is in their best interest and figure out the balance. FSP is more directly related to HCS income. 

Less income if less new players are being retained :). With the current game economy it's almost impossible to start up this game without donating. Most people don't like to do that...They like to establish themselves in the game first THEN donate once they come to like the game. Anyways gold is essentially FSPS if you look at it...and fsps are gold hehe. I'm not really talking any huge expansion to the gold upgrades...maybe offer 50 bp slots...50 max stam per day? some extra components...maybe 1 extra depo...who knows possibilities are endless. 


Edited by EpicPiety, 06 February 2016 - 23:56.


#5 Egami

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 02:29

Less income if less new players are being retained :)

 

That is incorrect. You cannot have "less income" if zero income is being received. 

 

Before anything else, I want to make really clear to everyone that I am sorry if that sounds snotty. I know it does. 

 

What I believe is behind EP's comment is something I DO agree with. My read is that there needs to be a move to increase the player base and their retention to exact higher profits for HCS.

 

Beyond that, everything is speculation. 



#6 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 02:53

That is incorrect. You cannot have "less income" if zero income is being received. 

 

Before anything else, I want to make really clear to everyone that I am sorry if that sounds snotty. I know it does. 

 

What I believe is behind EP's comment is something I DO agree with. My read is that there needs to be a move to increase the player base and their retention to exact higher profits for HCS.

 

Beyond that, everything is speculation. 

Your speculating HCS makes zero income? Ever look up HCS company net worth? They are losing 10% a year approx...That's beause they aren't gaining a player base its dwindling. If more players were retained more profit. Simple economics egami :P.



#7 Egami

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:35

Your speculating HCS makes zero income? Ever look up HCS company net worth? They are losing 10% a year approx...That's beause they aren't gaining a player base its dwindling. If more players were retained more profit. Simple economics egami :P.

 

Uh, no. As I stated before, if a player provides zero income and leaves, then income does not decrease.

 

Again, I get what you're saying. Increased player base and retention should increase income.

 

However, your assumption is that your suggestion will increase income. My point was that your suggestion to increase gold upgrades is something that HCS would have to evaluate financially. Again, I am all for gold-sink. 

 

Beyond that, yeah, I have a background in economics and finance. 



#8 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:39

Uh, no. As I stated before, if a player provides zero income and leaves, then income does not decrease.

 

Again, I get what you're saying. Increased player base and retention should increase income.

 

However, your assumption is that your suggestion will increase income. My point was that your suggestion to increase gold upgrades is something that HCS would have to evaluate financially. Again, I am all for gold-sink. 

 

Beyond that, yeah, I have a background in economics and finance. 

Exactly... Only add a few more gold upgrades like i stated nothing game breaking :).



#9 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:15

The cows could easily make more money by utilising FSP bonus events during XP, Scavenging, flash upgrades, and other events. Yet they surprisingly choose not to over the years.. They could also increase the amount of FSP given with money purchases in general instead of keeping the same amount they have had for almost a decade. This increase would get more players donating because the increased amount would be more worth it compared to buying other entertainment/game upgrades..

If the cows truly cared about balancing profit with rewarding their players and retaining players, then they should alter their marketing tactics and currency handlings..

...yes to more and increased gold upgrades per day. There are other ways to keep donations up while still letting game currency be used to upgrade characters

Edited by RebornJedi, 07 February 2016 - 04:16.

 


#10 Egami

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:18

Dang... just lost my response. Ah well, probably better for everybody.

 

To summarize: FSP and gold are not close to being equal; ie, FSP is directly related to HCS income (even shards provide some via commercial agreements), while gold is not a source of income for HCS.

 

My major concern is that if I, hardcore 100% pro-"gold-sink" player that I am, am worried... then there is something to worry about. 

 

I guess the gist is that... well, I simply don't see the reason behind making it even easier for new players. This is not the "grandpa I walked 10 miles to school in the snow" idea.  I don't care if I "supposedly" had it harder. My general response to that kind of thought is "yeah, I didn't have Imp, but I bought FSP for 25k gold on an expensive day". 

 

And maybe I'm influenced by the "apparent" general flow going through the game that I don't even agree with. The whole "make it more challenging". 

 

In short, it's just my personal belief that the upgrades are there already.

 

To perhaps suggest something constructive, I guess I'd be for something like the following:

 

Gold upgrades that are available to new players (probably based on join date rather than level) that are limited and cost approximately 75% of the current FSP cost based on the random 200k per FSP assumption. Higher level players could then dump gold on the investment in newer players.

 

Sorry, not well thought out... just brainstorming. )o0


Edited by Egami, 07 February 2016 - 04:20.


#11 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:56

Dang... just lost my response. Ah well, probably better for everybody.

 

To summarize: FSP and gold are not close to being equal; ie, FSP is directly related to HCS income (even shards provide some via commercial agreements), while gold is not a source of income for HCS.

 

My major concern is that if I, hardcore 100% pro-"gold-sink" player that I am, am worried... then there is something to worry about. 

 

I guess the gist is that... well, I simply don't see the reason behind making it even easier for new players. This is not the "grandpa I walked 10 miles to school in the snow" idea.  I don't care if I "supposedly" had it harder. My general response to that kind of thought is "yeah, I didn't have Imp, but I bought FSP for 25k gold on an expensive day". 

 

And maybe I'm influenced by the "apparent" general flow going through the game that I don't even agree with. The whole "make it more challenging". 

 

In short, it's just my personal belief that the upgrades are there already.

 

To perhaps suggest something constructive, I guess I'd be for something like the following:

 

Gold upgrades that are available to new players (probably based on join date rather than level) that are limited and cost approximately 75% of the current FSP cost based on the random 200k per FSP assumption. Higher level players could then dump gold on the investment in newer players.

 

Sorry, not well thought out... just brainstorming. )o0

the idea of gold upgrades is fine as it is :)...As to OP indeed we both agree they will benefit in some shape or form...it's just the question of how much they are going to add onto it.



#12 Egami

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:25

the idea of gold upgrades is fine as it is :)

So this topic is irrelevant? Ie, nothing further is needed? 

 

-smacks face-



#13 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:30

So this topic is irrelevant? Ie, nothing further is needed? 

 

-smacks face-

No the idea of gold upgrades is fine as it is..Meaning we don't need to change the dynamics of it...just increase some of the upgrades slightly.



#14 yotwehc

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:35

I've always loved these ever since they were brought into the game. For many reasons...Some of those being they make for inexpensive upgrades which is very beneficial to fresh blood in the game. I would really like to see some of the upgrades expanded more. Don't see any harm in it but correct me if i'm wrong. Would be no better time than now with the expected steam release :).

The issue I have with this is not the idea itself but the justification. Is it truly for "fresh blood?" If so, how many "fresh blood" players have access to 250k gold/day as well as the 47.5 million other permanent gold upgrades?

 

I would be curious to know what kind of upgrades you are thinking of that help the "fresh bloods."



#15 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:45

The issue I have with this is not the idea itself but the justification. Is it truly for "fresh blood?" If so, how many "fresh blood" players have access to 250k gold/day as well as the 47.5 million other permanent gold upgrades?

 

I would be curious to know what kind of upgrades you are thinking of that help the "fresh bloods."

Because it's a cheaper alternative to paying fsps for them? They also gain gold from hunting...Do i need to explain more? Of course other people will benefit...Not me so much because i already have vast upgrades it will be negligible. Quite tiresome chew whats your motive here other than disrupting and calling me selfish indirectly? It's no secret that to be successful at this game you need backpack and max stam...Why not make that a little easier for them? So what if it's also a little easier for existing players aswell...No harm done


Edited by EpicPiety, 07 February 2016 - 05:48.


#16 yotwehc

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:49

Because it's a cheaper alternative to paying fsps for them? They also gain gold from hunting...Do i need to explain more? Of course other people will benefit...Not me so much because i already have vast upgrades it will be negligible. Quite tiresome chew whats your motive here other than disrupting and calling me selfish indirectly?

No I get that it's cheaper then paying fsp but how many new players have 250k gold per day not to mention the 47.5 mill for the other permanent upgrades? I genuinely want to know what upgrades are you suggesting? I'd personally love more gold upgrades but you wrote the OP to help fresh blood. so what upgrades are you suggesting to help the fresh blood?



#17 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:51

No I get that it's cheaper then paying fsp but how many new players have 250k gold per day not to mention the 47.5 mill for the other permanent upgrades? I genuinely want to know what upgrades are you suggesting? I'd personally love more gold upgrades but you wrote the OP to help fresh blood. so what upgrades are you suggesting to help the fresh blood?

Maybe 35-50 bp spaces...Few component slots so they can create potions through farming resources etc...Maybe 50 more component slots? Possible 25-50 max stam per day. Maybe 1 depo? Who knows but probably don't need that. Just alittle something something. Possibly 2-3 combat sets... So every hunt they can upgrade their character alittle more...Give them reasonable goals to strive towards such as maybe 2 bp slots a week? Idk...


Edited by EpicPiety, 07 February 2016 - 05:56.


#18 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:57

Was thinking this might keep their attention for longer so the odds of them getting addicted are higher :). For a new player to achieve these might take 2-3 months... But they will notice constant player growth and improvement so they might not lose interest? The current gold upgrades can be finished within a month and don't really give them much utility to grow.


Edited by EpicPiety, 07 February 2016 - 05:58.


#19 yotwehc

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 06:00

Maybe 35-50 bp spaces...Few component slots so they can create potions through farming resources etc...Maybe 50 more component slots? Possible 25-50 max stam per day. Maybe 1 depo? Who knows but probably don't need that. Just alittle something something. Possibly 2-3 combat sets... So every hunt they can upgrade their character alittle more...Give them reasonable goals to strive towards such as maybe 2 bp slots a week? Idk...

So 5 BP slots > 55

50 component slots > 100

2 depos > 3

0 combat sets > 3

 

BP slots @ 1.5 million gold will be tough for truly new players to achieve in a week. especially if you increase max stam to 50/day = 2.5 million gold/day.

 

As you lamented in the past, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Rich guys like us will be able to take full advantage of the daily upgrades whilst the fresh blood will barely get 10, maybe 20 max stam per day as we keep adding 50/day.

 

I <3 gold upgrades but I think increasing the daily upgrades (like max stam) hurts new players. I have no issue with the BP and component slots however since it can be achieved eventually by all.



#20 EpicPiety

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 06:01

So 5 BP slots > 55

50 component slots > 100

2 depos > 3

0 combat sets > 3

 

BP slots @ 1.5 million gold will be tough for truly new players to achieve in a week. especially if you increase max stam to 50/day = 2.5 million gold/day.

 

As you lamented in the past, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Rich guys like us will be able to take full advantage of the daily upgrades whilst the fresh blood will barely get 10, maybe 20 max stam per day as we keep adding 50/day.

 

I <3 gold upgrades but I think increasing the daily upgrades (like max stam) hurts new players. I have no issue with the BP and component slots however since it can be achieved eventually by all.

3650 stamina a year for catching every max stam reset is meager...  Would love to see it at least doubled or 2.5x... Like i said 25-50...Definitely no problem with 25 a day. 21 fsps a week is by no means impossible for new players... Will teach them to maybe branch out and try other aspects other than leveling to profit alongside leveling.


Edited by EpicPiety, 07 February 2016 - 06:04.



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