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Equipment and Composing


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#21 rowbeth

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 07:47

Actually don't need it anymore for OK...Just dependent on Creature. 220k Dmg at EoC is possible...Actually even more.

"just dependent on Creature"??? You mean you don't need it provided you can look around for a sufficiently weak creature? A quick look down the OFSG indicates that 22/25 of the normal creatures it lists above level 2850 have an average HP that is more than half 220k, and that is without considering armour, creature enhancements ...  So you need more than just 220k damage to guarantee that OK works when it fires.

 

And in a debate about whether FS needs certain potions, I'd say again that not everyone plays from a guild with +10% damage from epics.



#22 EpicPiety

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 18:38

There are plentiful 10% dmg relics out there...Some sit unused. OK is a luxury 1 hitting is still possible on every single creature that's not a champion without FoD.

 

Grown tired of the ME VS YOU concept that has been growing more and more used when talking about composing.It's clearly broken and denying its not is just straight denial... Of course there will always be that one outlier that literally can't do the things most people can... Confused on what benefit i even have to myself for advocating for balancing composing? Oh am i trying to hurt you? and want to hurt everyone else? You'd have to be sick to think that. The end of it isn't really targeted at you rowbeth just the people that are so blindly against balancing composing and their only argument is that i'm Satan and everyone else that want's to fix composing.



#23 Mister Doom

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 20:00

EpicPiety = Evil and wants to ruin the game.

Everyone else = Correct.

 

Looks about right to me. Game is fine as it is, right?


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#24 rowbeth

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 09:34

There are plentiful 10% dmg relics out there...Some sit unused. OK is a luxury 1 hitting is still possible on every single creature that's not a champion without FoD.

 

Just catching some of the hyperbole, EP :)  This statement is more believable.

 

I don't see this as a "me vs you", by the way. But as with every discussion, people always approach with their own unrecognised axioms and assumptions that affect the conclusions.

 

Let me go back to the the position I stated when this OP-composing debate first started to take off.

 

It is *not* that composing is broken (at least from a hunting perspective). It is that composing is stopping us from realising that equipment design is broken.

 

Of the last 30 normal creatures I hunted, even with level 52 composing, about 20% of them would have had me 2-hitting without FoD. And for that 20% my damage was actually about 25% short, so it wasn't just a little bit short. (And I have searched long and hard to find the best damage set to use, so this is not just being lazy with equipment, either.) To me that says that even pretty high level composing pots are *not* way out of line with what is needed.

 

Those figures are about to change substantially, as level 2880 brings kit that allows a substantially improved hunting set. But that will be the first susbstantial improvement in hunting gear for many many levels (I think more than 500, but haven't gone back to check). Yet over those levels, the creatures have continued to get bigger and nastier. So there is a major underlying problem with equipment availability, and high (but maybe not highest)  level composing just about counters it.

 

From this perspective, I'd suggest that nerfing composing without putting a *huge* number of new equipment sets into the game would break hunting.

 

So, should we be pushing HCS to tackle the underlying problem of more frequent and mroe varied equipment sets? Given the long breaks there are from time to time in getting new content out, I really don't want to see what would happen if new content always had to come out with lots of well thought out new equipment too. I really don't think it is practicable for the Cows to maintain across 3000 levels the interesting equipment challenges I faced when I was level 300, and I am glad that they have pitched composing at a level that hides that impracticality.

 

As a result, I see composing as a pretty well balanced solution to a much bigger underlying problem, and a solution that allows HCS to spend its (less than infinite) resources on more pressing problems for the game.

 

 

I do accept that all this is from the perspective of hunting. I do note the comments a number of people have made about the effect of high level composing pots on GVG and PVP. So maybe more thought is needed about balancing the effect of composing on inter-player competition without  necessarily affecting everything. There are buffs (like AS and SSI) that are specifically PvE only, so the mechanics are available to nerf buffs for non-PvE activities should people really want that.


Edited by rowbeth, 05 March 2016 - 09:34.


#25 EpicPiety

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 09:38

Guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree... Composing is clearly broken and i'm not the only one that thinks this...Not only is it effecting Hunting...But every other aspect like the FS economy *to do with gear/other potions non composing*, PvP,GvG... ETC...Yes i might be the minority that can do insane things with composing...But i don't think i'm quite the minority that can do these things but that's regardless. It shouldn't be possible to do these insane things suck as overkilling a champion by 3-4x and obtaining stats that are just so OP i can blindly hit people that don't have access to composing and beat them 99.9% of the time. 

 

Also Btw the solution to this is not making gear reliant on composing. It is not a good solution to make everything rely on composing to work correctly. Gear should be the foundation. Composing should be a luxury. Just a nice bonus on top of gear nothing overwhelming...


Edited by EpicPiety, 05 March 2016 - 09:43.


#26 Filletminion

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:02

sets have grown by 1000's of damage pre the new 2880 setup I have upgraded 5 times since 2275 Combined with composing it is getting quite silly, if I go "old School" and use sh 175 ew 1725 and all damage buffs with wither you can 1 hit kill 99% of champs and gain Ok bonus xp, With Composing you do not need ew 1725 you do not need the damage buffs outside coa and sh, and with wither you can almost guarantee you will have enough d with DD buff to 1 hit elites.

 

Players no longer need to buy damage pots or buffs together with increased stam banks players increasingly profit from hunts meaning there is even more income and less to spend it on.

 

I can go back further 2 areas of the game were originally challenging to 1 hit through 185 area and 1100 to 1221 or so composing has made them easy players can 1 hit at will gear has not substantially improved but buffs have and composing is driving that.



#27 yotwehc

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:12

Yes. The game should be made so only the smartest and hard core players can 1 hit. As it is now, any village idiot can do it and it's not right. Well... Almost any village idiot, this one still can't and dies a lot.

#28 Filletminion

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:20

Yes. The game should be made so only the smartest and hard core players can 1 hit. As it is now, any village idiot can do it and it's not right. Well... Almost any village idiot, this one still can't and dies a lot.

In another post you made a week or two ago you said despite have lvl 60 composing pots you were getting owned by players half your level...Don't you have any desire to learn why and how they do it?



#29 EpicPiety

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:49

This game is all about knowledge... You just as me unless you have some sort of mental issue have the same chance to figure things out... Which i severely apologize for if so. But get real man and stop trolling. It doesn't take a genius to piece together a buff description and apply it. 



#30 yotwehc

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 15:14

In another post you made a week or two ago you said despite have lvl 60 composing pots you were getting owned by players half your level...Don't you have any desire to learn why and how they do it?

I'd love to learn how they do it but somehow they won't tell me.


This game is all about knowledge... You just as me unless you have some sort of mental issue have the same chance to figure things out... Which i severely apologize for if so. But get real man and stop trolling. It doesn't take a genius to piece together a buff description and apply it. 

Apology accepted :)



#31 Filletminion

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 10:47

I'd love to learn how they do it but somehow they won't tell me.


 

you wont learn it in your guild...Simple as that no one there to teach you. Further you need to help yourself Study and understand experiment all game buffs have descriptions you need to memorise them all...then you need to combine that with equivalent knowledge of gear combinations..



#32 EpicPiety

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 14:30

you wont learn it in your guild...Simple as that no one there to teach you. Further you need to help yourself Study and understand experiment all game buffs have descriptions you need to memorise them all...then you need to combine that with equivalent knowledge of gear combinations..

He often asks me things and i gladly help him out. Hopefully he relays the knowledge to his guild :P.  UFSG/Wiki and doing the things you said is key to this game. This isn't the type of game for the lazy and or weak brained. You need to actively learn or you won't succeed... You might beable to gain high levels throughout many years but odds are you probably coulda done it faster.


Edited by EpicPiety, 08 March 2016 - 14:32.


#33 yotwehc

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 15:19

you wont learn it in your guild...Simple as that no one there to teach you. Further you need to help yourself Study and understand experiment all game buffs have descriptions you need to memorise them all...then you need to combine that with equivalent knowledge of gear combinations..

O_O I guess I don't want to learn THAT much. lol. I will continue to get owned. At the very least, I'm building up the ego of those low level guys and they are happy :)



#34 EpicPiety

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 16:51

O_O I guess I don't want to learn THAT much. lol. I will continue to get owned. At the very least, I'm building up the ego of those low level guys and they are happy :)

Building their ego to want and expect things to be solved for them and if no one comes to give them all the answers they expect an easy no brainier solution to solve it for them? Because they can't be asked because the answer isn't an easy cop out effortless solution they come to expect.  Then because their ego is built they will come lobby the forums and a small minority of like minded people will come here and ramble on about something that makes absolutely no sense and is game breaking? Sound's like your actually trying to breed an inferior FS player to me... One that will ruin the game. God i hope this isn't already happening now *LOL*. That's not helpful 0.0. That's very counter productive :(. Me on the other hand i'll stick to trying to teach and nurture them to play the game and not twist their mind's. 


Edited by EpicPiety, 08 March 2016 - 17:07.


#35 Pythia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 23:00

I hope it's ok with everyone if I don't want to treat  this game like rocket science. 

 

I have no intention of memorizing all the attributes of the buffs, when all I have to do it call up my buff tree and look them over or go icon shopping the buff market.

 

I shop in the ah and bazaar for my lib, fury, dc, and acc  along with stew, wither, cloak, distil, ew and sanctuary.

 

I buy 3 buff packs from the buff market and then pick up the lose buffs that were not in any pack.

 

I compose one potion of my own.

 

I have gained enough base stam to get one hunt per week now.

 

I admire those that feel they need to go the extra mile, that's ok with me.  I'm not one of those anymore, I need a slower pace now.  I'll help those I can and refer those I can't.



#36 EpicPiety

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 23:31

I wouldn't consider memorizing 1-3 key words per buff rocket science. You shouldn't even have to try to make an effort to memorize if you indulge in the game at least half way you should have the buff descriptions memorized without even trying. If your just mindlessly logging in and asking for buffs *Yes buffs in general* and hitting 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 and logging out your hardly "playing" the game to begin with. I certainly don't have a problem with people "playing" like this if that's what they consider playing... do what you want. But remember this "You reap what you sow".


Edited by EpicPiety, 08 March 2016 - 23:37.


#37 Pythia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 23:54

LOL EP, you have no idea how much data is already stuffed up there.  It's not rocket science but I don't need it memorized when its at my fingertips.

 

I stopped memorizing when it dawned it on me I didn't have to as long as I knew where to go to get it quickly.

 

Now I only memorize the things I don't want written down anywhere, and use mnemonics to retrieve what I want, when I want.

 

Falls under the heading of  what one of my college teachers said about it.  KISS everything you do.



#38 Pardoux

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 23:55

Bottom line is, THIS IS A GAME ...

 

Anyone can play it the way THEY choose to play it ?

 

Slow, fast, efficient, non-efficient.

 

What does it matter as long as the player themself is enjoying it and abiding by the existing game rules ?


Edited by Pardoux, 09 March 2016 - 00:01.

Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#39 Pythia

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 00:09

I need to find another game to play.



#40 EpicPiety

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 00:13

LOL EP, you have no idea how much data is already stuffed up there.  It's not rocket science but I don't need it memorized when its at my fingertips.

 

I stopped memorizing when it dawned it on me I didn't have to as long as I knew where to go to get it quickly.

 

Now I only memorize the things I don't want written down anywhere, and use mnemonics to retrieve what I want, when I want.

 

Falls under the heading of  what one of my college teachers said about it.  KISS everything you do.

The brain can hold up to 2.5 petabytes which about a million gigabytes on average. Running out of space in your brain? That's fundamentally impossible because neuron die off and regrow. Thus you forget thing's unknowingly to remember new things. Unless your neuron's are not regrowing or dying and regrowing at an abnormal rate which in return you would be brain dead by the time you've matured as a adult or even adolescent because brain neurons do not last or develop Alzheimer. They can be repaired but that's about it. If they aren't regrowing they aren't repairing either so they die off. If your brain dead your frankly not playing FS or doing anything actually. You memorize thing's without knowing. It's fundamentally impossible unless you have some sort of abnormality or disease to turn off memorization in your brain. Even then you wouldn't be manually turning off memorization. If you do something or read something enough times you will have memorized it eventually. Now whose to say you memorized it correctly? That is a whole another ball game. Fallensword is a whole lot of REPETITION. You get into a routine of doing the same thing every time when hunting. Pvping...Anything the thing is to allow for variation and learning. Otherwise your potential will essentially drop to near 0 to do with your respective craft. There really is no excuse. If you play the game enough thing's will naturally come to you. especially if you get help along the way which i encourage everyone to do... Even i look to people for help all the time when i'm uncertain or want to confirm something. Not saying you personally are using this as an excuse to justifying the necessity of super high level composing buffs. But there was a time and date when composing didn't exist and people got along just fine 1 hitting/over killing creatures. People of all range's there was no discrimination... So asking for composing to be "balanced" is essentially hurting NO one. You'll still be able to do your thing hunting 1 hitting/ over killing at no added expense...  The only thing it's doing is helping nurse the various aspects negatively effected by composing back to health. Let me add the longer thing's stay the way they are the more damage will be done... You eventually get to the point of no return. It creeps up on you and before you know it your over the edge. 


Edited by EpicPiety, 09 March 2016 - 00:15.



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