137 replies to this topic

[yotwehc]

Oh no! Another PVP thread!

 

Seriously though, this past weekend had a lot of bounty board activity and one thing I noticed is several players appreciating my efforts. I was being showered with fsp, epic items, epic pots, etc. (I did return all but some were insistent so I had no choice ). So I was thinking how these appreciative folks could get more bang for their buck thus resulting in more board activity. If someone already suggested this, I apologize and will credit you accordingly.

 

Suggestion:

When posting a bounty, provide an OPTIONAL secondary reward that would provide bonus fsp/gold for each 100 stam hit. or for every 3 100 stam hits. or for every 9 100 stam hits. Sure you could use good ol' honor system and some folks sent fsp's in advanced but this way they could find more like minded players that like to roll the same way.

[yotekiller]

How about just gathering up guild/allies/friends to make a collaborative effort just to help each other out? If you don't have people willing to sacrifice for you then it's likely you either aren't worth the effort (how sad for you) or you just need new friends. Adding extra incentives for extra stam use is totally unnecessary.

[yotwehc]

The point isn't about the bounties I place (I'm definitely not worth it). i could care less if anyone clears them or not hence the lowest reward I always apply (There are other reasons).

 

The point I make is I just noticed how appreciative others were for the work that I do for THEIR bountes... So many PM's, so many gifts and you have to admit, the bounty board is alive! The point is making the BB active...

[yotekiller]

Many suggestions to increase BB participaion have been made and ignored. Here are the best as a reminder -
1) All bounty attacks must be 10 stam or 100 stam, nothing in between.
2) make 10 stam clears ineligible for counter bounty but try to sneak in even 1 @ 100 and you are eligible for counter bounty.
3) Remove xp loss from bounty hunters failed attacks

Make those 3 changes and you will see a lot more people participating in the BB, even if it's just to collect a bronze medal. I remember when collecting bounties was very competitive and I'd like to see it that way again but it has to be more appealing for that to happen. Nothing is more difficult, or more rewarding, than collecting a bounty on a much higher player but many people are discouraged from trying because of their own xp loss while trying to clear a bounty.

[Calista]

If you want to be a merc,  you should have to put some effort into it.  The bb already provides a reward for the bounty hunter.  Don't  use the board as a way to get free crap, or a way for people to buy wins in a war.  It should require some effort,  same as gathering people up for a delevel instead of throwing money at it and buying wins.

 

Leave PvP alone already. They screw it up every time they make a change.

 

 

Edit:  Yes, I would benefit from this because all I do in the game at this point is 100 stam on the board. But I'm also known to hate mercs and help people go after them.  I don't want this change because I don't want to be forced into merc like activity.  When people try to pay me for helping them delevel someone, it is almost offensive though I know it is not meant to be. This change would limit my ability to cleanly clear bounties.

Edited by Calista, 19 April 2016 - 11:49.

[yodamus]

yotekiller, on 19 Apr 2016 - 10:29, said:

Many suggestions to increase BB participaion have been made and ignored. Here are the best as a reminder -
1) All bounty attacks must be 10 stam or 100 stam, nothing in between.
2) make 10 stam clears ineligible for counter bounty but try to sneak in even 1 @ 100 and you are eligible for counter bounty.
3) Remove xp loss from bounty hunters failed attacks

Make those 3 changes and you will see a lot more people participating in the BB, even if it's just to collect a bronze medal. I remember when collecting bounties was very competitive and I'd like to see it that way again but it has to be more appealing for that to happen. Nothing is more difficult, or more rewarding, than collecting a bounty on a much higher player but many people are discouraged from trying because of their own xp loss while trying to clear a bounty.

excellent suggestions- as counter bounty + xp loss really hurts the average joe player from trying bounty hunting.

[Calista]

In my guild chat, it is a regular thing these days to see messages from new bounty hunters explaining why they are quitting on a bounty they can't win.  We use to drop bounty hunters who quit a bounty, but WE feel sorry for them.  You know something is all kinds of messed up when TED feels bad for someone. 

 

Edit:  Counter bounties need to stay in place. It's the only way the board can be used properly. The risk is part of the fun.  I don't think the game should dictate how much stam is used.  If all I have left is 90 stam for my last hit, I want to use it all.  But the xp loss for the bounty hunters is what chases off the newbies.

Edited by Calista, 19 April 2016 - 17:47.

[sweetlou]

Calista, on 19 Apr 2016 - 11:22, said:

Leave PvP alone already. They screw it up every time they make a change.

That's the history so far!

 

I can remember many newcomers to PvP who have grown tired of pushing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. They race as fast as they can to the EOC because they think that is where you are powerful and ask, what now? They undeniably become self-centered asking for changes to benefit themselves because hitting EOC isn't what they expected. The omnipotent characters in this game are built on respect, experience and friendships, not based on level and dollars donated.

[Gutie]

sweetlou, on 19 Apr 2016 - 20:15, said:

That's the history so far!

 

I can remember many newcomers to PvP who have grown tired of pushing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. They race as fast as they can to the EOC because they think that is where you are powerful and ask, what now? They undeniably become self-centered asking for changes to benefit themselves because hitting EOC isn't what they expected. The omnipotent characters in this game are built on respect, experience and friendships, not based on level and dollars donated.

That's just opinion, the reality is otherwise and we both know that lou. It's why a certain guild didn't get disassembled last year after most of what people said was found out to be true. All the ill-gotten profits and gains weren't wiped.

 

Back to the PvP aspect. Seasons should be a regular thing. It removes the personal element of it and gets down to the competitiveness that PvP SHOULD have, but doesn't.

Edited by Gutie, 19 April 2016 - 21:19.

[Egami]

Calista, on 19 Apr 2016 - 11:22, said:

Leave PvP alone already. They screw it up every time they make a change.

 

I placed this first because it's what I most agree with.

 

The fact is, I don't see much of a real benefit in changing anything, precisely because of what Calista said.

 

However, I've believed ever since the beginning that the bounty system was completely illogical. A lot of classic players made up all these "rules" about bounties that, to a large extent, formed the concept in the FS World. 

 

For me, the ideology was twisted because of a misunderstanding of how tactics were implemented by those "most" involved.

 

The foremost idea that I would deal with is the fact that being a "merc" is wrong. 

 

To wit, a bounty hunter is hired to kill by a person that places the bounty. I fail to see how any "bounty hunter" could not be a merc.

 

Oh wait, the 10 to 100 stam option. Of course, even before that was present (I could be wrong here, but I think at the beginning, there was no such choice), many FS players farmed others to get them to post a high bounty and have their friends collect the prize.

 

Really, to tell you the truth, one of the things I wanted to do around 5 years ago was smack everyone one day with a random number between 10 and 100 and offer PvP targets and/or BB targets something if they guessed the correct number I had used, lol.

 

The paradox for me is that bounty hunters have zero need to be protected. They are hired for a job and, from other comments I see, there is no way to evaluate that job.

 

Now that may seem like a wimpy cop out, but I swear it's not. Because the paradox involved is the lack of evaluation means that I truly believe that bounty hunters in this game do not get paid to do their job. 

 

If somebody spends 100 FSP on a bounty (and yeah, somebody told me they saw it yesterday), why wouldn't I just clear it with ten 10 stam hits? 

 

I did not like Seasons (and yes I missed out because of vacation on most of it) particularly because bounty attacks were not able to be "counter-bountied". In that sense, I agree to a large degree with the "auto-punished" definition touted by some.

 

This is also key due to some Guilds' program of taking 5 on mercs or whomever. I think that policy fits well with what I consider to be a true understanding of what a "bounty hunter" should be. If you are a bounty hunter/merc and do your job by "killing" then the family is sure to come after you and whoever hired you. 

 

FS "bounties" have evolved so far for so long that I, like Calista, find it hard to move back. Clears became, years ago, run of the mill. I don't see any logical solution to that, and I'd still argue for getting rid of the, in Hoof's words, unintended side-effect of Conserve saving XP.

 

My personal PvP experience is my own. It's a part of the game that I have always loved and will always fight for. It has taught me, personally, more about the game than any other game aspect and I will always defend it against those that are too lazy to organize their priorities.

 

Ok, maybe that "lazy" was over the top... I know some of my allies hate me for my opinion, but that's how I feel, lol.

 

The only thing I think is "relevant" for a possible change, that I'd hope both levelers and PvPers could agree on is a sliding-scale payment system.

 

Again, I've never had logistics worked out for that, because I never think it would happen via programming. 

 

But I do think it would provide some possibility of aligning what a real world definition of bounty hunting is to the game. 

 

After all, one pays more to kill someone, right? So, in my eye, I'd like to see payment system based on the damage that the person placing the damage is looking for.

 

Again, there's too many possibilities to really fathom it out, but in all of them, a bounty hunter could DEFINITELY be counter-bountied.

 

MY SUGGESTION IN ESSENCE:

 

Essentially, a player placing a bounty (and only her or him) would assign a minimum payment for the bounty clear and could optionally assign a payment for a "bonus" XP loss. 

 

So perhaps the clear itself would, like now, get the minimum prize and no one has to pay more to place a bounty.

 

But a prize could also be assigned by the bounty placer for each 100 stam hit or for the random level loss or for a total XP loss.

 

Yeah, complicated, but you get the idea? 

 

In essence, I would suggest that prizes be assigned via bounty tickets and that bounty tickets be reverse exchangeable for gold at the current 200k per. 

 

The idea being that the person placing the tickets assign prizes in bounty tickets and that those complying with XP loss, level loss or number of successful hits or whatever, receive tickets as their payment which they could then exchange for gold.

 

I guess to keep things up to date, prizes could also be assigned in FSP. 

 

Too complicated, maybe so. Would it work to increase BB activity? Maybe.

 

Will most dislike this idea, I figure.

 

But whether a leveler or PvPer you be, I'd hope a little ba-boom might get added to the BB. 

 

Anyway, for any that bothered on both sides of the fence, or completely in another pasture like myself, I'd like some feedback, good or bad. Perhaps this really should have been placed in its own post, but hey, time time. Maybe "later", lmao.

[Pythia]

I'm an older player, and for me bounty hunting and the hunter is now and will forever be reflected in an American Western called:

 

Have Gun Will Travel:  The Paladin.

 

I took this from the show description:

 

Paladin was not your normal gunfighter. He was an educated and a traveled man. A West Point graduate, he served as a Union officer during the Civil War. After the war, he went west and became a high-priced 'gun for hire.' He was based at the Hotel Carlton in San Francisco and enjoyed the finer things in life. He dressed in fancy clothes, enjoyed fine wine, gourmet food, opera, expensive cigars and he could play the piano. He read newspapers from all over the West looking for situations in which he could help, for a fee.

 

 

Started on TV and moved to radio.   (I'm dated with that one for sure.)

 

I do believe the man was merc, high classed, but a merc.  lol

Edited by Pythia, 19 April 2016 - 23:16.

[sweetlou]

Gutie, on 19 Apr 2016 - 21:18, said:

That's just opinion, the reality is otherwise and we both know that lou. It's why a certain guild didn't get disassembled last year after most of what people said was found out to be true. All the ill-gotten profits and gains weren't wiped.

 

Back to the PvP aspect. Seasons should be a regular thing. It removes the personal element of it and gets down to the competitiveness that PvP SHOULD have, but doesn't.

My opinion is my reality, and you should know that. If you have a differing or opposing  opinion from mine please argue it with evidence substantiating your position. I have no hesitation agreeing with you that HCS has allowed ill gotten gains to enter the game through cheating. Sadly, it's water under the bridge. Those players you speak of  generally stay away from the PvP aspect(and xp titles mean nothing to me). With PvP it doesn't really matter where the funding originates, by credit card or ill gotten means, it is, and should remain, the sheer will of players who band together who will excel in the end. This is the current essence of punishment on the Bounty Board!

 

You argue that Seasons in some way is more pure without a 'personal element' to it the way PvP should be but isn't. I disagree. I enjoyed little of Seasons. Without changes its big negatives remain, like automated punishment that is just luck. Large stam banks shouldn't dictate outcomes. Lastly and most importantly, now any form of PvP(also GvG) comes down to who stockpiles the most super pots. Any form of Seasons would only highlight this current development, or lack thereof. HCS has nearly abandoned coding development relying on jacking up skill levels as a substitute. So I would be shocked if we see any reincarnation of Seasons within the year. This isn't just my opinion, but I'm arguing historically. I would love to be refuted, please!

[sweetlou]

Egami, on 19 Apr 2016 - 22:13, said:

I placed this first because it's what I most agree with.

 

The fact is, I don't see much of a real benefit in changing anything, precisely because of what Calista said.

The real fact is nothing much is changed, period!

[Calista]

A bounty hunter clears a bounty. It isn't personal, it's just business. Strictly a job.  A merc takes money to stomp for a person/guild who doesn't have the friends/allies to do it properly. They are involving themselves in a fight that isn't theirs. For me, that's the difference. If I stomp a player, it's for my guild/allies and not for the free crap people are willing to pay. Not everyone will agree with that, but that is how some of us see it. That's why I hate mercs. That's why I am so against them, and that is why I have been known to help people/guilds who get attacked by mercs.

 

We deal alot with what I call 'one man crusaders'. Players get bored and decide maybe it'll be fun to go after the pvp'ers for a while. We respond to their attacks, and they complain we're the bullies. All we're doing is defending our guild/allies. The game was set up from the start to be able to do that. Some guilds decided leveling was more important. Others decided that defending themselves and allies was more important. Both sides are fine with what they decide to do. But stop acting like we're the bad guys. Pvp is just business for us. It's what we do. It's not personal.

[Pythia]

LMAO..    Ok.

 

Fact of the matter, all bounty hunters are mercs once you look at the way it works.

 

The bounty is placed by someone.

 

The bounty is taken by someone, who is not relevant, that hunter has been hired to clear that bounty.

 

Their payment is the bounty they get for clearing said bounty.

 

That's pretty clear to me.

Edited by Pythia, 19 April 2016 - 23:39.

[sweetlou]

Pythia, on 19 Apr 2016 - 23:30, said:

LMAO..    Ok.

 

Fact of the matter, all bounty hunters are mercs once you look at the way it works.

 

The bounty is placed by someone.

 

The bounty is taken by someone, who is not relevant, that hunter has been hired to clear that bounty.

 

Their payment is the bounty they get for clearing said bounty.

 

That's pretty clear to me.

Untrue. ALL bounty hunters are NOT mercenaries if you look at how dropping a player works!

 

When a guild drops a bountied player they use guildmembers, not mercenaries. They are relevant to the poster by protecting the them. In fact oftentimes the reward gained is sent back to the poster. Please don't just post to be heard but if you had any experience with how the BB works you should know that.

[Calista]

Pythia, on 19 Apr 2016 - 23:30, said:

LMAO..    Ok.

 

Fact of the matter, all bounty hunters are mercs once you look at the way it works.

 

The bounty is placed by someone.

 

The bounty is taken by someone, who is not relevant, that hunter has been hired to clear that bounty.

 

Their payment is the bounty they get for clearing said bounty.

 

That's pretty clear to me.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you, but then that's why I actually play this part of the game and you talk about it.

[Pythia]

I thought about posting something else, but it would not make a difference

 

We all see our world colored by our experiences, that's the human way.

 

This is it.

[yotwehc]

Calista, on 19 Apr 2016 - 23:25, said:

A bounty hunter clears a bounty. It isn't personal, it's just business. Strictly a job.  A merc takes money to stomp for a person/guild who doesn't have the friends/allies to do it properly. They are involving themselves in a fight that isn't theirs. For me, that's the difference. If I stomp a player, it's for my guild/allies and not for the free crap people are willing to pay. Not everyone will agree with that, but that is how some of us see it. That's why I hate mercs. That's why I am so against them, and that is why I have been known to help people/guilds who get attacked by mercs.

 

We deal alot with what I call 'one man crusaders'. Players get bored and decide maybe it'll be fun to go after the pvp'ers for a while. We respond to their attacks, and they complain we're the bullies. All we're doing is defending our guild/allies. The game was set up from the start to be able to do that. Some guilds decided leveling was more important. Others decided that defending themselves and allies was more important. Both sides are fine with what they decide to do. But stop acting like we're the bad guys. Pvp is just business for us. It's what we do. It's not personal.

A merc stomps... it's not personal, it's just business. It would seem you have it backwards as mercs have no loyalty for any guild or ally so it's less personal than the reasons you stomp

 

I don't hate you... you hate mercs... which one is personal?

 

I'm filling the void that has been missing in this game. I have met some like minded folks and a LOT of grateful players.

 

Wth! I'm derailing my own topic! Let's tie it back... so if mercs get folks to hate them, it will cause more delevel parties thus increasing BB activity! WIN!

So my suggestion is to encourage more Merc like behavior. Nothing personal. just business and more BB activity

[Calista]

You're entitled to your opinion.  But honestly you've been doing the merc thing for a week or so now and you accuse me of being nice! You and I can chat while we're stomping each other and there is no hostility. Why? Because it isn't personal. It's just business.  I 'hate' what I call 'mercs' in general, but it is the reasoning behind the hitting I have issue with, not the person. And once you 'one man crusaders' wander away to lick your wounds, there doesn't remain any issue. 

 

You have met players willing to throw money at the game to win. But few of them have your back when it comes to all those levels lost. You brag about sitting on a champ and how this won't effect you in the long run. You brag about being the worst kind of player in that you are doing this for no reason other then to start trouble.  All we're doing is defending our guildmates in the way the game was set up.  Leave the board alone and put some effort into the game instead of having things handed to you.