It's not a question whether these pots are op or not because they ARE by definition its a fact. It's whether the cows wish to let these plague the lands or not.
Stat Changing Skill Levels in Super Pots Are Harmful
#101
Posted 24 June 2016 - 20:33
#102
Posted 05 July 2016 - 20:40
Big fat BUMP
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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
#103
Posted 06 July 2016 - 04:20
Once those ridiculous Doubler potions started coming out, it was over. That pretty much opened the floodgates for potions.
#104
Posted 06 July 2016 - 04:58
Once those ridiculous Doubler potions started coming out, it was over. That pretty much opened the floodgates for potions.
Naw doubler idc about...It's just the stat padders etc.
#105
Posted 06 July 2016 - 06:58
I really like the OP... lotsa thoughts in it. I will follow the train that says the global and donation pots ship has sailed. Basically all do have access to the global pots, and all can in theory pay for the donation pots...in theory.
The amount of global events can be discussed though... do we really need that many giving us all so many über pots that we can hardly keep up using 'em?
The pots gained via the ladder and arena tokens are... well.. high powered, but still have a little more thought behind 'em compared to the global/donation pots.
That leaves the composing pots. Having been in my own little guild for a few years, working on my composing skills as a "I also have a life, and will not game via my phone" player, I am now up to level 35 in composing. That leaves a LONG way till level 60 where the real gamebreakers are.. so I can't help but wondering; Have ANY of the HCS staff tried dragging their composing rear to level 60, via normal gameplay?
Have any of the HCS staff tried having a lvl60 composer around to feed 'em those über pots? I can tell first hand, my setup stats have been handed a massive, and totally overpowering boost after I decided to join a guild, which happens to have a few lvl60 composers.
It is simply too much.
I recall a time, when we (PvP/GvG related guilds) would throw all our stam at each other (aka buff offline friends/allies/guild members when bountied/GvG'ed) - and it had a huge effect. Now it hardly matters anymore, since the attacker is online, using über pots. How can my DC175 compete with a KE350?
How can anyone claim for example GvG to be a guild effort, when the attacked guild can't do much to aid their targeted members while they are offline?
The gab between cast buffs and pot buffs is too huge. Fix it!
PS. I too would love to see Hoof comment on the many issues raised in this thread. And also would like something to spend the rather big amount of unused skill points I have on.
No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins
#107
Posted 06 July 2016 - 18:47
Ok so I've tried to read through all this and get the gist of it ![]()
As the game has progressed, so has the level of the buffs available (in general). To better understand it though I'd like to try and figure out what the main issue is here and from that we can look at how it can be addressed. These questions are based on what I've read and I'm posting them to try and get a better understanding of it.
1) Is the issue mainly the disparity between the character skill levels and the skill levels available in potions now? Would increasing the potential max skill level (of some) of the character skills help this?
2) Is it that the some of the higher level skills have a negative impact mainly on PvP or do you feel it affects both the PvP and PvE aspects of the game?
3) Which skills do you think specifically are causing an issue? What do you feel would be a more appropriate max level for them or could the skill possibly be tweaked so the higher levels don't have such an impact (ie. diminishing return for higher levels of the skill).
I'll likely have more questions after some feedback on these ones, but hopefully this should start a good discussion on it ![]()
#108
Posted 06 July 2016 - 18:47
I would like to say, that I still would like the opportunity to compose to a high level, I really hope that I am given this opportunity instead of being marginalized by those that have got there and now want it changed. :/
If change were ever made you could still continue to compose and reach its highest level just when you get there the pots available wouldn't be so potent. This would be the same for those that had already achieved composing EOC.
Cheers.
wil72
#109
Posted 06 July 2016 - 19:01
That is all true, Will, but I have a high level of anticipation and desire to try the potions made by me and used by me.
If those potions are downgraded, then I will never find out what this whining is all about.
I really want to experience them as they are now, not as others want to make them.
#110
Posted 06 July 2016 - 19:07
voted no. never used a sup pot. dat bad?
#111
Posted 06 July 2016 - 19:38
That is all true, Will, but I have a high level of anticipation and desire to try the potions made by me and used by me.
If those potions are downgraded, then I will never find out what this whining is all about.
I really want to experience them as they are now, not as others want to make them.
Considering that you have a lvl 60 composer in your guild the statement, "but I have a high level of anticipation and desire to try the potions made by me and used by me," is a complete cop-out. You can try them now, see what effect they have and make an informed decision on whether they should be altered or not.
Cheers.
wil72
#113
Posted 06 July 2016 - 20:21
Ok so I've tried to read through all this and get the gist of it
As the game has progressed, so has the level of the buffs available (in general). To better understand it though I'd like to try and figure out what the main issue is here and from that we can look at how it can be addressed. These questions are based on what I've read and I'm posting them to try and get a better understanding of it.
1) Is the issue mainly the disparity between the character skill levels and the skill levels available in potions now? Would increasing the potential max skill level (of some) of the character skills help this?
2) Is it that the some of the higher level skills have a negative impact mainly on PvP or do you feel it affects both the PvP and PvE aspects of the game?
3) Which skills do you think specifically are causing an issue? What do you feel would be a more appropriate max level for them or could the skill possibly be tweaked so the higher levels don't have such an impact (ie. diminishing return for higher levels of the skill).
I'll likely have more questions after some feedback on these ones, but hopefully this should start a good discussion on it
1) I think that perhaps increasing certain skills cast by players may help to decrease that disparity. Though I voted no and am against the changes being proposed I still understand the significant difference between a KE192 buff and a composing potion (after distil) KE403. And SH192 buff compared to SH552 composing potion. I think this is a fair option to look at implementing. Just please please please not deflect ok. ![]()
2) I think it is obvious that these potions impact these areas of the game enormously. I am not so sure that impact is negative however. And please consider people have worked hard to earn or have the ability to compose these potions. To have them now reduced is that not a slap in the face? It is far too late to make wholesale changes. I implore you please do not do this. Just my opinion. ![]()
3) Again as in response to the 2nd point I implore you not to make wholesale changes to skill levels and certainly not to the established skills as they are. People have already earned these rewards or already worked to have access to them.
In slight summary I think the best solution to this issue if you consider it one is option 1. Slightly higher skill levels able to be cast is not game breaking and slightly reduces that gap to these potions. Otherwise don't remove initiative to want to compose or participate in the PvP ladder or global events. Leave these potions alone. This is my opinion.
Hoof. Not all of us feel the pots are over powered. Based on your post, you are making that statement as fact. Just the squeaky wheels in the forums feel that way. Please take the stuff posted here with a big grain of salt lick.
Agreed. Please before even considering changing anything consult the entire player base. A poll integrated in game would suffice. To ensure everybody's opinion is heard rather than the same people stating their opinion over and over in every forum post to force their voice to be heard. Not everybody feels this way. This poll here even is hardly a majority in any way. Open the discussion up to the entire player base and take a fair poll. ![]()
- yotwehc likes this
#114
Posted 06 July 2016 - 20:32
hmm...poll the entire community ? ..do you realize that votes are bought..newbies can easily be bought..guildmates told how to vote..polls are bad..
after the last community vote - for whether ladder prizes should be bound or not ( not bound won at 67%)..a big majority..but yet..the cows kept ladder prizes bound..so why have a poll if the majority (67% is a majority) is not listened to...
on subject..skills cast by players needs to be increased..most everyone is sitting on tons of skill points due to composing..
#115
Posted 06 July 2016 - 20:59
Will, I think you missed the point of my post. It is not a cop out....
Yes, there are high level composers in my guild.... BUT..... They are not me, and I am not them.....
I... want to compose my OWN big potions..
I... want to do the work for myself.
I... want the achievement to be mine like theirs is for them.
I can and would share, but I want to do this for me...
#116
Posted 06 July 2016 - 21:07
Post deleated..
Hoof, please don't downgrade the composing potions.
Composing is not really the problem here.
I am bothered by the squeaky voices always being catered to.
#117
Posted 06 July 2016 - 22:08
Ok so I've tried to read through all this and get the gist of it
As the game has progressed, so has the level of the buffs available (in general). To better understand it though I'd like to try and figure out what the main issue is here and from that we can look at how it can be addressed. These questions are based on what I've read and I'm posting them to try and get a better understanding of it.
1) Is the issue mainly the disparity between the character skill levels and the skill levels available in potions now? Would increasing the potential max skill level (of some) of the character skills help this?
2) Is it that the some of the higher level skills have a negative impact mainly on PvP or do you feel it affects both the PvP and PvE aspects of the game?
3) Which skills do you think specifically are causing an issue? What do you feel would be a more appropriate max level for them or could the skill possibly be tweaked so the higher levels don't have such an impact (ie. diminishing return for higher levels of the skill).
I'll likely have more questions after some feedback on these ones, but hopefully this should start a good discussion on it
Hoof - here's a simple idea for you.
Use Hooftest at EOC. Put on any 4-set set up (plus an extra item if necessary)
Make a note of your ATT / DEF / ARM / DAM stats
Use CoAt / CoDe / SH and KE maximised composing pots and check out the massive difference.
The problem with the uber-pots is that they are just that, UBER ....
I don't think the issue is AS relevant in PvE, but in PvP / GvG / Ladder, there really is no way to compete against players unless you use the same massive potions.
I'm no expert in GvG but I do know how to make a setup suitable for various aspects of the game and, using standard buffs, there simply is no way to defend against an incoming GvG attack where their player(s) is/are using these massive potions.
Limit the use of these potions to PvE and I think we're going a long way towards a suitable resolution - and, one that will appease those throwing out the "squeeky wheel" posts (some of which know what they are talking about, and others that don't)
Edited by Pardoux, 06 July 2016 - 22:10.
- 3JS likes this
Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.
Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...
#118
Posted 06 July 2016 - 22:16
Looks like composing will be downgraded. Guess I'll just have to roll with it soon. Pity on that.
#119
Posted 06 July 2016 - 22:54
Hoof. Not all of us feel the pots are over powered. Based on your post, you are making that statement as fact. Just the squeaky wheels in the forums feel that way. Please take the stuff posted here with a big grain of salt lick.
Use your powers of persuasion as nothing has been set in stone, far from it, it is up for discussion. Discuss.
Looks like composing will be downgraded. Guess I'll just have to roll with it soon. Pity on that.
Use your powers of persuasion as nothing has been set in stone, far from it, it is up for discussion. Discuss.
1) Is the issue mainly the disparity between the character skill levels and the skill levels available in potions now? Would increasing the potential max skill level (of some) of the character skills help this?
Yes.
2) Is it that the some of the higher level skills have a negative impact mainly on PvP or do you feel it affects both the PvP and PvE aspects of the game?
It certainly affects both but I personally feel it has a greater negative impact with regard to PvP/GvG.
3) Which skills do you think specifically are causing an issue? What do you feel would be a more appropriate max level for them or could the skill possibly be tweaked so the higher levels don't have such an impact (ie. diminishing return for higher levels of the skill).
Easy option, Composing pots for hunting, yes. Composing pots for PvP/GvG, no.
Cheers,
wil72
#120
Posted 06 July 2016 - 23:37
Use your powers of persuasion as nothing has been set in stone, far from it, it is up for discussion. Discuss.
Use your powers of persuasion as nothing has been set in stone, far from it, it is up for discussion. Discuss.
Cheers,
wil72
Following Wil's lead and powers of persuasion:
Hoofmaster, on 06 Jul 2016 - 11:47, said:
1) Is the issue mainly the disparity between the character skill levels and the skill levels available in potions now? Would increasing the potential max skill level (of some) of the character skills help this?
No.
2) Is it that the some of the higher level skills have a negative impact mainly on PvP or do you feel it affects both the PvP and PvE aspects of the game?
I think it's working great for both.
3) Which skills do you think specifically are causing an issue? What do you feel would be a more appropriate max level for them or could the skill possibly be tweaked so the higher levels don't have such an impact (ie. diminishing return for higher levels of the skill).
No issue at all... I still lose the vast majority of my battles but at least I win a small portion with the composed pots.
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