Someone else using orange text! Now that is just wrong.
Cheers.
wil72
Posted 07 July 2016 - 00:03
It's called copy/pasting + lazinessSomeone else using orange text! Now that is just wrong.
Cheers.
wil72
Posted 07 July 2016 - 00:10
Ok so I've tried to read through all this and get the gist of it
As the game has progressed, so has the level of the buffs available (in general). To better understand it though I'd like to try and figure out what the main issue is here and from that we can look at how it can be addressed. These questions are based on what I've read and I'm posting them to try and get a better understanding of it.
1) Is the issue mainly the disparity between the character skill levels and the skill levels available in potions now?
YES
Would increasing the potential max skill level (of some) of the character skills help this?
problem is that once you "open this door" that players will undoubtedly ask for other skills to be raised like titan doubler, teleport, dispel curse, deflect, ...... which IMO should stay, so better stick to what you have been telling us for years that buffs lvl will stay at MAX 175 !!!
2) Is it that the some of the higher level skills have a negative impact mainly on PvP or do you feel it affects both the PvP and PvE aspects of the game?
will only comment on PvP since that is the game aspect I ♥ & play a lot:
composing has obviously greatly affected / "crippled" PvP & GvG !!!
3) Which skills do you think specifically are causing an issue? What do you feel would be a more appropriate max level for them or could the skill possibly be tweaked so the higher levels don't have such an impact (ie. diminishing return for higher levels of the skill).
like Pardoux & wil72 said:
Composing should ONLY work in PvE (leveling, SE hunting, Titan Hunting, farming, .....) !!!
Composing should NOT work in PvP (Bounty Board, PvP Ladder, GvG, ....)
OR
CAP them in PvP to MAX level 200 (not higher) !!!
(IMO the only exception allowed to be over lvl 200 should be Anti Deflect since it does NOT affect or reduce players stats at all + to counter high DEFLECT)
I'll likely have more questions after some feedback on these ones, but hopefully this should start a good discussion on it
1st of all, thanks so much, your presence alone has drawn many players to the forums ![]()
if I may be bold / selfish then do you mind reading this post here: https://forums.hunte...e-5#entry964664(sorry that it's long)
MOST IMPORTANTLY: you do not really have to listen to me or anyone, just pick a setup and compare your stats with lvl 175 buffs & then with composing skills !!!
you will undoubtly see for yourself that the composing stats are "insanely" high compared to the "measly" lvl 175 buffs
(additionally compare Terrorize175 to Terrorize403, Flinch175 to Flinch460, SH175 to SH552, ..... the difference is huge
)
do some PvP / GvG hits: lvl 175 buffs VS composing skills to know how negatively composing has affected PvP / GvG !!!
*EDIT*
please read the part (LINK is in this post) how to make everyone really have "access" to composing, will be very helpfull, especially for low / "poor" players who can not afford paying "traveling composers" every time they hunt, THANKS for your time
Edited by mary4ever, 07 July 2016 - 01:38.
3 players on iggy (1 troll & 2 players whose posts never make any sense)
Posted 07 July 2016 - 01:42
*EDIT*
please read the part (LINK is in this post) how to make everyone really have "access" to composing, will be very helpfull, especially for low / "poor" players who can not afford paying "traveling composers" every time they hunt, THANKS for your time
I like that you are fighting for the little guys (low/poor players) but why aren't they making the arguments here? Why are most of the folks complaining about OP in high level guilds with access to said OP pots? I see this as more positive. It levels the playing field. More parity. I lose regardless but I lose a little less with the pots.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 02:03
I like that you are fighting for the little guys (low/poor players) but why aren't they making the arguments here? Why are most of the folks complaining about OP in high level guilds with access to said OP pots? I see this as more positive. It levels the playing field. More parity. I lose regardless but I lose a little less with the pots.
Most people either don't know about the forum or don't care about the forum - you know that as well as anyone else Chewy:)
It's also interesting (from my perception of the composing threads that is - not necessarily the most accurate view - that the majority of players stating that composing potions are overpowered (for most aspects of the game) are the ones who've actually leveled up and ACHIEVED those overpowered potions.
Nerfing them, even if it's only to stop them working in PvP / GvG / Ladder affects us the most (the "generic" us, that is).
Players who haven't levelled up in composing (for whatever reason) seem to be the majority ones saying leave them be - "I may not get there for years, but I don't want to miss out on them"
Edited by Pardoux, 07 July 2016 - 02:03.
Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.
Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...
Posted 07 July 2016 - 02:08
*EDIT*
please read the part (LINK is in this post) how to make everyone really have "access" to composing, will be very helpfull, especially for low / "poor" players who can not afford paying "traveling composers" every time they hunt, THANKS for your time
I like that you are fighting for the little guys (low/poor players) but why aren't they making the arguments here? Why are most of the folks complaining about OP in high level guilds with access to said OP pots? I see this as more positive. It levels the playing field. More parity. I lose regardless but I lose a little less with the pots.
I said HUNT, hunting is NOT PvP !!!! HUNT is PvE !!!
Composing should ONLY work in PvE (leveling, SE hunting, Titan Hunting, farming, .....) !!!
I have already told you to please STOP quoting & twisting my posts to suit your "agenda" !!!
we already talked about how composing negatively affected PvP / GvG (you are already fully aware of it) in the last forum thread where you started trolling (like usual) after running out of arguements which unfortunately led BG to lock the thread ![]()
I do not want this thread to get locked, I want players to discuss it, especially since HOOF got involved !!!
3 players on iggy (1 troll & 2 players whose posts never make any sense)
Posted 07 July 2016 - 02:23
My thoughts on these potions: One, if you're going to run a game with no level cap, something I have never seen anywhere else (which is not to say it doesn't exist), and you're going to have part of that game include pvp between a ridiculously wide range of levels, you'd better give the little guys a way to reach up some. Otherwise it's not very much fun. Really. There have got to be some equalizers around here. These potions don't quite accomplish that, but they help a lot.
Two, people have put a lot of resources into maximizing this skill, and I'm sick of seeing things given, and then carelessly taken away. Some thought should be given to them. I'm honestly a little offended, on their behalf.
Everyone has access to the development of the skill, if you want it, figure it out.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 02:23
I said HUNT, hunting is NOT PvP !!!! HUNT is PvE !!!
I have already told you to please STOP quoting & twisting my posts to suit your "agenda" !!!
we already talked about how composing negatively affected PvP / GvG (you are already fully aware of it) in the last forum thread where you started trolling (like usual) after running out of arguements which unfortunately led BG to lock the thread
I do not want this thread to get locked, I want players to discuss it, especially since HOOF got involved !!!
Oops... sorry. Your posts are long so I tend to lose my trail of thought... my fault for my limited brain capacity. The "will only comment on PVP..." was stuck in my head.
Regardless I disagree. I think composing helps the non big guild players and I did some analysis on our limited responses:
Of the Yes's:
61% belong to top 5 guild
Of the No's:
30% belong to top 5 guild
Let me know if you want me to run other stats ![]()
Posted 07 July 2016 - 02:28
Most people either don't know about the forum or don't care about the forum - you know that as well as anyone else Chewy:)
It's also interesting (from my perception of the composing threads that is - not necessarily the most accurate view - that the majority of players stating that composing potions are overpowered (for most aspects of the game) are the ones who've actually leveled up and ACHIEVED those overpowered potions.
Nerfing them, even if it's only to stop them working in PvP / GvG / Ladder affects us the most (the "generic" us, that is).
Players who haven't levelled up in composing (for whatever reason) seem to be the majority ones saying leave them be - "I may not get there for years, but I don't want to miss out on them"
Interesting... If I had the stats on who was at what level, I could tell you the percentages of who's achieved and who didn't and how they responded on this thread.
Yes... forums are a micro representative of the population at large and mostly filled with a lot of dissatisfied folk.
btw, curses to you players with different game and forum profile names! lol
Posted 07 July 2016 - 03:46
So further to Pardoux's point, since we can't see each players composing level, the best thing I could see was the Artisanship:
For the Yes's:
Diamond: 42%
Ruby: 12%
Crystal: 12%
Gold: 12%
Silver: 9%
Bronze: 9%
None: 3%
For the No's:
Diamond: 43%
Ruby: 13%
Crystal: 13%
Gold: 4%
Silver: 9%
Bronze: 9%
None: 9%
I guess the players composing level makes no difference... pretty amazing actually. almost identical.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 04:39
I come to question where anyone in this thread has said let's nerf XP based potions. When has this transcended into leveling/xp/gxp??? Please fill me in. I was under the assumption we were talking about pvp/gvg/ladder? If we are going to engage in discussion in this thread we need to be in parallel.
TL:DR
This thread isn't about nerfing XP based potions
Posted 07 July 2016 - 13:01
I understand why there is a heated discussion on the GVG/PVP effects of the 'ubers' but, PVE is also affected.
These potions take out any and ALL challenge to set creation when it comes to regular hunting, SE hunting and titan hunting.
They need to be nerfed/fixed/diminished to stop the crazy unbalanced mess that FS has become.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 17:51
I have to disagree Doom - as I have said several times in this thread, the challenge had gone long before uber pots came along.
These pots just ameloerate the consequences of the impossibility of creating complex equipment patterns that need to be changed every level over 3000+ increasingly more powerful levels.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 19:19
Fixing an unbalanced game (I agree the game was struggling to create a challenge a long time ago) by making it even more unbalanced (adding the uber potions and super powerful skills) is counter-intuitive.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 19:29
Fixing an unbalanced game (I agree the game was struggling to create a challenge a long time ago) by making it even more unbalanced (adding the uber potions and super powerful skills) is counter-intuitive.
I chose the lesser of two evils in suggesting that high lvl composing pots remain usuable in hunting purely on the thought that if they are nurfed in both player v player combat and leveling then why bother composing at all. The pots have been long introduced and I'm afraid they will need to work at full potency somewhere in the game.
Cheers.
wil72
Posted 07 July 2016 - 20:15
... is counter-intuitive.
"counter-intuitive" thinking can (sometimes) mean "thinking outside the box"
Posted 07 July 2016 - 20:28
"counter-intuitive" thinking can (sometimes) mean "thinking outside the box"
That is sometimes true. However, thinking outside of the box is not doing the same thing over and over but making it a little bit more powerful with each incarnation. That's almost the opposite of thinking outside of the box.
Posted 07 July 2016 - 20:39
It would be good to address this in different cases I think:
In terms of PvP, Yes I do agree that there are very overpowered potions out there. The argument isnt whether or not its accessable to all, to me it looks like these huge potions just create more requirements to be evenly matched in PvP. I am also in agreeance to the idea of preventing composing potions in PvP since these boost stats quite substantially. But what of Composed Potions like AD and Gloat will you remove those altogether aswell since they have no use other than PvP? Or even ladder reward chests for that matter, if you remove composing a nerf to the levels of ladder chest should be in place too since they are just as strong as composing.
I think the potion levels are fine for levelling though. If HCS keeps pushing the level cap on EoC there should be some sort of counter measure to allow newer players to reach eventually. This game is nearly ten years old and with 3000 level difference it would be pretty discouraging for a beginner if they want EoC to be their endgoal. I say this as a non EoC but I dont really have an urge to reach EoC myself.
I think the stat boosters are not a big hit to PvE (SE / Titan Hunting). These remove the need for a group in most cases, which isnt an option for everyone (I also assume that Mercs are a dead part of the game as they had use prior but have not received any real attention in awhile). It also makes these aspects more accessible to lower levelled players in weaker gear which is fine by me, these game elements arent very profitable at this point in time to cause a concern in making it any easier. I would much rather see people enjoying something like SE hunting which is actually very fun to do.
TL;DR: Prevent Composing Potions from activating in PvP and Nerf Ladder Chest levels, Potion Levels for PvE look fine to me.
Edited by Achub, 07 July 2016 - 20:45.
Insanity is when the sobbing slowly turns into laughter...
Posted 07 July 2016 - 21:13
The amount of global events can be discussed though... do we really need that many giving us all so many über pots that we can hardly keep up using 'em?
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