Players Leaving -- Paradoux and Chazz both mention factors all sound and valid.
Let me clearly state - I am one who supports PvP aspect of this game, but I've seen two scenarios that have disturbed me.
One - when things go a little nuts and PvP'ers join in massive forces to repeatedly teach a lesson and do so over many days and sometimes weeks so that the player who is their target is demoralized and leaves the game. I know some cheer that they've won when this happens. I just can't see it as a win.
Two - There have also been a few PvP'ers who simply were going around doing what they do and guilds over-reacted to a random gold hit here and there and felt it was their mission to drive the "vermin" from the game and they didn't seek out the full story (heavens forbid they should talk to the player or their GF) and never discovered that their own player was in fact embellishing the truth - seen it happen too many times. The PvP'ers in these cases weren't beaten down by the actual attacks in the instances I know, but just by the blind hatred. (The over-reactions were from typically non-PvP guilds, in case there's an confusion).
The faults of these players driven from the game in these manners weren't that great, and from the sidelines it seemed the punishment far exceeded their crimes.
When our actions are so negative that we drive another player, who isn't cheating or stealing, from the game then I think that is in a sense is our mutual burden and loss, PvPers and Non-PvPers alike. We should take no glee from that and instead be stepping forward as a community to help mediate these situations with an open mind when we can.
I know there are some players who even when they are the underdog per se will not give up and will continue hitting at windmills and to that, well there's not much to be done other than watch the self-destruction play itself out and hope they come to their senses.
yotwehc
Member Since 15 Apr 2013Offline Last Active Jan 08 2018 23:19
About Me
Unhealthy Addiction to FS.
Merc for hire. PM me for details... I still stink at it but at least we finally have a merc in game! yay!
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#858843 Development Roadmap (Updated 7th Mar 2014)
Posted by BraveKath
on 31 March 2014 - 06:04
#858833 Radical PvP Rework
Posted by Pardoux
on 31 March 2014 - 05:28
No PvP in Sigma Storm did wonders for that game it didn't last long did it ... How right could one person be anyhow right? =)
I love how this is trotted out EVERY time ....
1. There WAS PvP in Sigma Storm II - and, IMO, a much better implementation of it - you actually had to be on the same map as your opponent. Player vs Player on the same map, ergo in the same vicinity ? - pretty radical eh ?
2. SS2 failed for a multitude of reasons - user interface, lack of development, lack of fixes. It just didn't get the love and attention it deserved. All in all, SS2 was a better game than FS - more in-depth, more player development ...
But, to say that SS2 failed because of no (similar to FS) PvP is misleading at best, and grossly inaccurate at worst ..
#858801 Zombie Yeoman Global Event
Posted by yotekiller
on 30 March 2014 - 23:12
#858725 Radical PvP Rework
Posted by rowbeth
on 30 March 2014 - 13:59
Don't carry gold, talk crap, or 100 stam someone and you don't get hit. It's that simple!
Unfortunately, this is not true, and hasn't been for a few years. In principle, things like prestige have changed that. In practice, people you've never communicated with still hit you while you're holding 2k gold.
Once upon a time it was also possible to get offline gear that made PVP hits very difficult. Maybe reinstating that (through uber defensive sets that challenge the best buffs, or restricting PVP buffs, or ...) so that PVP hits became a real battle and not just a one-hit near-guaranteed anihilation might change attitudes a bit.
- yotwehc likes this
#858572 Radical PvP Rework
Posted by yodamus
on 29 March 2014 - 15:41
ok...WOW....um...
PvP is a part of the game...has been since day 1. That doesn't make this a PVP only game. There are tons of other aspects of the game to play!
BUT it is a unique game that does allow PvP and allows us to basically police ourselves.(this can be abused as ANY aspect can...the champion farming at EOC for guild xp is an example, titan scripting etc). HCS has given us fair grounds to return fire in pvp if someone has offended us. They've offered us a chance to punish offenders by placing them on a Bounty Board that allows others to extract punishment for you. And it doesnt have to be something PvP that offends you. Someone stole your SE? Someone snatches a chest from under you while you get your key from loyalty? then you can PvP them or find them on BB and handle your business.
As far as being FORCED into PvP? nobody is forced into it. So you were hit in PvP? chances are you had too much gold on hand OR you've opened your mouth and inserted foot and now are paying for it. There are options in place to protect your XP AND your gold(protection,bank deposits,fsp marketplace, etc). I am forced to level if i am deleveled. Forced to level if i want better gear(lets remove all gear lvl requirements so pvp'rs never have to level up <---being a smartalic here)
To sit and say that players are FORCED into PvP is ridiculous.
I've played other games where PVP is basically a joke and is only for bragging rights(amazing how few people actually pvp there) and I've played games where PVP is highly damaging(where 1-2 attacks can set back a years worth of leveling/building)....HCS has found a great balance. I feel that more incentives to PvP are needed. Nothing else needs to change.
the bounty board is not a punishment..that is the probelm..90% of the time i have been hit with 100 stam pvp hit..i get a message to put them on the bounty board..if most all pvpers actually want on the bounty board..it is not a punishment..they usually want to be de-leveled so they can easily level up again by staying in same area, therefore gaining more xp for thier guild...
ok...WOW....um...
PvP is a part of the game...has been since day 1. That doesn't make this a PVP only game. There are tons of other aspects of the game to play!
BUT it is a unique game that does allow PvP and allows us to basically police ourselves.(this can be abused as ANY aspect can...the champion farming at EOC for guild xp is an example, titan scripting etc). HCS has given us fair grounds to return fire in pvp if someone has offended us. They've offered us a chance to punish offenders by placing them on a Bounty Board that allows others to extract punishment for you. And it doesnt have to be something PvP that offends you. Someone stole your SE? Someone snatches a chest from under you while you get your key from loyalty? then you can PvP them or find them on BB and handle your business.
As far as being FORCED into PvP? nobody is forced into it. So you were hit in PvP? chances are you had too much gold on hand OR you've opened your mouth and inserted foot and now are paying for it. There are options in place to protect your XP AND your gold(protection,bank deposits,fsp marketplace, etc). I am forced to level if i am deleveled. Forced to level if i want better gear(lets remove all gear lvl requirements so pvp'rs never have to level up <---being a smartalic here)
To sit and say that players are FORCED into PvP is ridiculous.
I've played other games where PVP is basically a joke and is only for bragging rights(amazing how few people actually pvp there) and I've played games where PVP is highly damaging(where 1-2 attacks can set back a years worth of leveling/building)....HCS has found a great balance. I feel that more incentives to PvP are needed. Nothing else needs to change.
the bounty board is not a punishment..that is the probelm..90% of the time i have been hit with 100 stam pvp hit..i get a message to put them on the bounty board..if most all pvpers actually want on the bounty board..it is not a punishment..they usually want to be de-leveled so they can easily level up again by staying in same area, therefore gaining more xp for thier guild...
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#858533 Radical PvP Rework
Posted by rowbeth
on 29 March 2014 - 07:42
In my opinion, everyone is playing PvP. Even if they don't attack they do. Everything else is part of the game: hunting, titan hunting, farming, inventing, etc. So, why is PvP not part of the game?
Everything else is a voluntary part of the game. I don't have to farm if I don't want to. I don't have to level if I don't want to. I don't have to hunt titans if I don't want to. So I think the question is "why is PVP different"? Why do I *have* to be PVPd even if I don't want to be?
The one thing that is clear from many past PVP threads is that there are extreme and diametrically opposed positions on PVP. Many have left the game because they can't avoid it. Many have left the game because they can't indulge in it.
I would reiterate what some have said in past threads: the FS community is too small now to disenfranchise any bit of it. I would love to see PVP changed in a way that gives PVPers more fun; but that has to be done in a way that doesn't detract from the fun of those who really dislike PVP.
#858530 Radical PvP Rework
Posted by rowbeth
on 29 March 2014 - 07:27
There have been tons of changes to game that favor leveling faster; easier, and safer - yet some won't be happy until PvP is dead entirely
A major reason for this is that many of those who push PVP insist that it has to be inflicted on everyone, whether they like it or not. Most of the non-PVPers I have heard from (and I suspect that includes as many farmers and merchants as levellers, byt the way) would be happy for anything to happen with PVP provided they were allowed to opt out of it. But if one is going to insist that everyone should have to suffer one's own favourite aspect of the game - even if others absolutely hate that aspect - then is it a surprise that the opponents will take an extreme position to avoid it?
- most could care less about betterment of game globally - they simply serve their own selfish agendas; often pretending they have intent to partake if more compromise suitable to them is made, yet it is lies - they are simple trolls to progress, and nothing is waiting on the other side of their rainbows for them - they are just too blinded to understand it.
The thing that has always struck me as puzzling about the PVP debates is that the "I want to get my enjoyment from thumping you, whether you like it or not" is so often portrayed as the unselfiish position.
#858495 Zombie Yeoman Global Event
Posted by Crzy
on 29 March 2014 - 03:10
Thanks for the event HCS.
I agree with keeping it a surprise.
Hopefully, "thanks" for not extending the time.
And just "hoping" that we don't even get near Ruby.... like seriously... I'd consider paying FSP to set the Community back a few thousand. Oddly enough, I believe that's the only way to get the FS Community into the Community spirit ,oP
Those that think this idea is ridiculous... don't waste your time responding.
Prosperous smacking FS!
Really glad others feel this way because it's how I've been feeling lately. It's discouraging seeing so many people over 400 that only do the minimum hits. People won't even bother doing more if there's no incentive for top 100 which is lame as can be.
Doing 25k+ each round and always hunting as much as I can is starting to look less attractive when people are getting the same reward for minimal work. With that said, I will continue hitting as much as I can because it IS a community event.
EDIT: I personally want to thank those that continue to pour all their stam into these events. Especially those doing 50k+. If I had the stam I'd be right up there with you.
#858327 Titan Update and Bounty Board Feedback
Posted by BraveKath
on 28 March 2014 - 04:46
.....
It's ironic... want more people to play the pvp aspect but hate on and beat up on anyone that don't follow the unwritten rules or just look at them funny. I was not kidding when I tried to find bounty hunters from the top list and every single one of them rejected my request because the other person was in a chosen guild. Is that healthy for the game? Does that encourage the masses to play that aspect? I think not.
The other irony is when the BB was semi active when all the EOC'rs were committing harikiri... who complained the most about this? It was active but I guess it didn't feel good killing the willing...
....
Chewy - I really don't mean to be singling you out - so in advance sorry about that of now having quoted you twice, but you're stating some things that I think many die-hard Levelers (non-PvPers) have misconceptions about, so doing my best as a player who has lived a bit in all the camps and who has many old school PvP'er friends.
"finding Bounty Hunters"
- you were hunting for merc's then? Top Bounty Hunters don't merc themselves out typically. A merc tends to be a random person who see a shout or who you know personally and is willing to perform the bounty as you request and many old school PvPers/BH'ers find that sort of reprehensible. Typically many only 100 stam if it's personal. So the excuses they gave you were most likely more polite and that they weren't going to clean up a mess that you were in -- not their fight.
"EOC harikari"
Well it's a little smarmy to see people patting themselves on the back for gaining smasher medals that they earned safely by hitting naked players. So what you used some stam. I lost a lot of levels EARNING my smasher medal by taking risks and I'm proud of it. Since that 1st medal I have done favors and hit a few friends wanting to be deleveled, but if I could turn off the smasher credit for those hits - I would.
What we're basically talking about is old school pvp'ers believe in honor codes and wear their scars proudly. Yes there are some who have complicated rules about what they find acceptable and what they don't, but that's not my experience with most PvP'ers - in general all very reasonable and if you simply 10-stam, timely and finish (not just leave because you got bored or started loosing and couldn't figure it out*). Thus don't let a few bad experiences color the whole picture. Doing that is like saying all people of a certain race are ___ (fill in the blank).
* note on finishing Bounties - I know I'm not the only one - I've taken bounties on players more than twice my level who were fully buffed and on and it wasn't pretty, but I did slog it out and took a lot of losses and it took a lot of hits to finally finish.
I hope this is of some help on perspective.
- yotwehc likes this
#858082 Titan Update and Bounty Board Feedback
Posted by y0da
on 27 March 2014 - 14:56
I usually have an optimistic view on things, but unfortunately, I cannot put one on the outlook that Grim has taken on this.
The bounty board, in most ways, is a self-policing part of the game in terms of bounty hunters being bountied. Outside of the idea that bounties are to expire and someone is dropped 5 (which has happened even when there are 12+ hours left on bounties that I've seen). If you remove the expiration from the bounties, then it will go back to the olden days where usually if you clear with 10 stams, then you won't get bountied, unless you've made enemies (and they're looking for bounties on you). Outside of expiring bounties, if you clear someone with 10 stams and get bountied, then you make sure to throw 100s next time - it's not difficult and it gets the message across. There is no reason to adjust the community roadmap for this proposition on a part of the game that is dead because of lack of activity on the PVP side rather than "bounty hunters crying foul".
As this is not on the roadmap, and you've made it very clear "we are sticking to the roadmap. if it's not on there, it won't get listened to." - then please stick to the roadmap and put this on the end if that's the case. Put this one in the pocket and let it be voted on next time.
I wish it was that simple. The problem is, certain guilds have more involved players than others. Some guilds are happy to participate in a de-level party and can easily gather the required players to do so in a timely manner. Other guilds would rather stay out of it. If I was dishonorably deleveld, my choice is to 100 stam them or just leave it be. If I do a retaliatory 100 stam attack, then you can bet another delevel party is in store for me. If I place everybody that participated in my delevel on the BB, you can bet they will be 10 stamina cleared by their own friends that are eagerly awaiting, getting MY reward money and only losing a fraction of the same xp that I lost. FAR from retaliation.
So I ask you this, how can a person get their retaliation after being deleveled?
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#858073 Titan Update and Bounty Board Feedback
Posted by gomezkilla
on 27 March 2014 - 14:20
And the arrested person cannot arrest back. Plus the game rules allow 10-100 stamina hits.and real life anaolgy time
Bounty hunter in real life can Arrest you but they must follow the law. If they break the law they themselves are then punished by you guessed it...the law...
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#857893 Titan Update and Bounty Board Feedback
Posted by Melissa3
on 27 March 2014 - 01:08
The bounty board is the place that someone can be punished for attacking another player. Pvpers are aware of the risks when they choose to attack another player. Why give them the right to bounty someone who has taken their bounty? I have never agreed with that. The person who has been placed on the bounty board is there to receive punishment for their attack on another player.
Bounty hunters are doing a job that is assisting the community. I agree that they should not be punished for doing that job by being bountied, no matter whether they use 10 stam or 100 stam hits.
And i agree that bounties should not expire. An attacked player looses in the initial hit and then looses more when they place the bounty , at least after paying for that bounty they will know that the player who attacked them will eventually suffer some consequences.
I think these changes will open up the bounty board to many more players and totally agree with these 2 changes.
#857865 Titan Update and Bounty Board Feedback
Posted by rikk1
on 26 March 2014 - 23:56
Leefylee said: "should always be able to bounty a bounty hunter, ottherwise they will just start smashing the board with no come backs.. most people on the BB will only return bounty a 100stam clear any way. ive never bountied someone who clears me with 10 stam hits."
Well, Leefy, I can name you 10 people who have posted me on the BB for clearing them with 10 stam hits, and those ten are just starters of the list of those who have (I keep a list). Thank you Cows. Maybe now I will stop twiddling my thumbs and work on my Ruby. And... maybe someone will feel the need to revive the the HBH organization.
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