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yotekiller

Member Since 16 Apr 2013
Offline Last Active Today, 00:52

#891789 Gold Hits and a gold hit BB in the new PvPXP system. An idea.

Posted by yotekiller on 29 September 2014 - 10:44

Nope - my idea is someone steals enough gold to SINK 400K they get a 300K bounty posted on them by the game. So 100K is still sunk, no matter what happens. Zero extra gold enters the game. That is the beauty of this system - it pays for itself, and is regulated by player activity.

Spoken by someone that clearly has no experience in gold theft.  There are a lot of problems with this system, starting with the fact it is heavily weighted to punish higher levels.  Low level players don't carry much gold so hitting them won't sink much gold.  The higher levels generally have more stam for leveling to bring in more gold and more gold available for scavenging.  A low level gold hitter may have to successfully hit 10+ targets to sink 400K but a higher level can easily sink 400K in one shot.  Next, you want 3/4 of the gold sunk to be returned to the game?  That really defeats the entire purpose of a gold sink.  We have enough gold in game as it is without cutting the primary source to 1/4 of it's current outflow.  Finally, we don't need different bounty boards for different hits.  Either something is worth a bounty or it's not.  Don't complicate things any more than they have to be.




#891502 'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.

Posted by yotekiller on 27 September 2014 - 00:15

I believe this forum is almost like a brain storming session. We are all throwing ideas around. HCS uses some and not others. That's kinda one of the really cool things about this game. Don't be a bystander awaiting the final word, throw your idea out there!

 

 

Yep definitely I agree. I actually suggested to Grim that they create an official thread, to give a bit more credibility?

He has made quite a few posts about the new idea lately in the various threads and global chat. So it's not 'all' just speculation, although there definitely is some I'd agree.

As chewy pointed out also though, this thread  is open to all for input and ideas etc etc.

  Just so people that don't know me will get an idea of where I'm coming from, I have a Diamond Monthly Top 10 medal and I'm still #11, even after getting into pvp, so I do know a thing or two about the leveling side of the game.  I also really enjoy the pvp side, mostly because it brought a lot of excitement to the game after I grew extremely bored of 1-2-3, rinse and repeat.  It's no secret that I am against changing the current pvp system and I will be the first to admit it's not perfect but it's pretty good.  It's also pretty obvious that I am fighting a losing battle to preserve xp loss in pvp.

 Having said all that, I see a real danger in the way these topics are progressing.  There are a lot of ideas being thrown out, which is good because more input can lead to a better product.  The problem is that there is very little being done to narrow down and fine tune all of those ideas so we are still left with a lot of guesswork about what the final product will actually entail.  We are talking about the single biggest change the game has seen, we should still be in very rough draft mode but I am getting the distinct impression this could be implemented at any moment.  We have a freight train running down hill, gaining speed by the second, and nothing is slowing it down.  How many times have we seen things implemented, only to be quickly changed because the idea was put in place before it could be thoroughly explored?  That's why I'm trying to get things nailed down by the admins.  We still have a huge number of unknowns and what-ifs attached to this change, not to mention any possible exploits the new system may bring about.

 Is there a timeline for these changes?  Will there be discussion about the final product BEFORE the changes are made?  Will there be any way of testing the changes before they are implemented in to the game?

 

Questions I have right now -

 

1)  I'd still like to know about how the Prestige system will work.  Has this even been considered?  It's pretty tough to take something away that people have worked for but if you leave Prestige it will just give an added bonus to those that participate in the new pvp system.  So I make a gold hit, get Prestige, lose no XP (just rating) on the BB and have a bonus when I level up.  Sounds great to me but does my target feel like I was actually punished?  If they are a pvp hater the answer is a resounding no.

 

2)  I saw Grim posted that rating would be converted to tokens on a monthly basis.  Really?  And then what?  Will everyone's rating will be reset to start point?  Those that have earned rating will get rewarded while those that have ignored pvp get a free monthly reset to start point?  How is it fair to the pvp'ers that the non-pvp'ers don't have to work their way back up if they decide later to pursue rewards?  At least tell me players will need to have a positive rating to get tokens but that still brings up the issue of trading for rating.  Resetting everyone to start point every month just makes trading easier.  If you earn rating this month, you should get your reward and keep your rating.  If you lose rating, it stays low until you decide to actively participate enough to raise it back up.  Furthermore, a timed reset was tried and failed on the ladder.  You had little to no activity until the closing moments when everyone tried to get in a flurry of hits to win it all.  Do we really want to go through that again?  In order to make the reset meaningful you will have to randomize the reset, by a LOT.  7-28 days would guarantee enough variance that players would actually engage without being able to guess when a reset might occur.

 

Once again, I really feel like we need to slow things down just a bit to make sure we cover as many scenarios as possible BEFORE implementation.




#891441 'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.

Posted by yotekiller on 26 September 2014 - 14:45

Not sure why this would need to be affected by a change?
That's the only reason I never made mention of it to be honest.

 

 

I answered this question to you on the chat yoda.
If you look at the way gaining and losing 'blood' is set up, it is gained at a much more accelerated rate than it is lost.
Someone would have to not pvp very much, and their opponents would have to work very hard in order to zero them each night.


No offense, but I'm not really looking for answers on the way you think things should happen with the new system. I'm really wanting the people that will be doing the actual design and implementation to tell us what is going to be involved. I know you are doing your best to help flesh out ideas but until the cows say what is going to happen it's just guesswork and speculation on all of our parts.


#891392 'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.

Posted by yotekiller on 26 September 2014 - 03:46

You can't say for sure Yote. You may well find yourself valuing your pvpxp more than you think you will...

 

 

Why should I hit someone in PvP (in the new system) who doesn't do any pvp except gold farming??? If the player got 0 PvPxP then bountying him is useless. I would like to ''punish" someone for stealing my gold. So, how I can punish someone with the new blood system!?

 

Apparently Grimwald, you don't know just how valuable this new pvp xp will be.  Seems we will be falling all over ourselves to get it and keep it so I'm sure any loss of the new pvp xp will be felt greatly by anyone that dares to steal your gold.  Just out of curiosity, how would you propose punishing someone for a gold hit, regardless of their existing xp amount?  Remember, the whole impetus for this new system is to make pvp more palatable to the leveling masses.  Make your punishment too harsh and even fewer people will participate.  Make your punishment too light and people like yourself will say they received no justice for whatever loss they incurred.  So where do you draw the line to bring more players into the fray while still punishing the wrongdoers in FS land?




#891327 'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.

Posted by yotekiller on 25 September 2014 - 19:53

Next question, and perhaps I have missed it somewhere, but what is going to happen to the existing prestige system and the prestige already accumulated?


#890976 'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.

Posted by yotekiller on 23 September 2014 - 17:26

Where do gold hits, which are a huge gold sink, fall into this? No xp loss but how do you punish someone for stealing your gold, especially if you remove the bounty board? If all you are going to do is remove my pvp rating in some fashion then settle in because your gold will be mine. You won't even be able to level out of my range because I won't be losing xp. Still sound fun? Remove gold hits and you may as well remove the marketplace, just have a standard exchange rate in the upgrades. Oh, I will also want a refund for all the bank deposits I have purchased since they will no longer be needed if gold can't be stolen.


#890835 'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.

Posted by yotekiller on 23 September 2014 - 11:18

What incentives are there to participate?  Another level number with no real meaning?  Why would someone that uses 100% of their stam on leveling suddenly decide to slow down their leveling and use their stam on this new pvp system?  Just because there is no xp loss?  Why wouldn't they just ignore the new system and go about their way?  New quests that require a certain pvp rating to continue?  Why not just bring back the old ones that were removed long ago?  Sorry, this is just another blatant attempt to completely remove pvp from the game and really offers no viable alternatives.




#890533 what happened to guilds defending their own?

Posted by yotekiller on 22 September 2014 - 03:39

It's called teamwork and most pvp players (and therefore guilds) understand this concept quite well while most leveling guilds seem to be full of people more focused on themselves and their own level number than actually working together for the greater good.  Sad but true and yet most levelers will say the teamwork of pvp'ers is evil and cause for the ruination of the universe.  Easier to point the finger of blame at others than look in the mirror I guess.




#890334 Confirmation When Deleting Combat Sets

Posted by yotekiller on 20 September 2014 - 02:31

yes, and also before deleting a composing template, or at least add more space between the template button and delete button.  Not such a big deal on a PC but on mobile those buttons are very small and very close together.




#890265 PvP XP / XP through PvP

Posted by yotekiller on 19 September 2014 - 16:55

After all the discussions and scenarios it appears we have come down to this - EITHER the new system has no risk, only reward and is therefore only GvG by another name OR the new system adds new rewards to existing PvP and therefore provides more incentive for PvP players to hit anyone that might provide said rewards.
GvG by another name isn't needed and the same result could be accomplished simply by adding new rewards to the existing GvG framework. Adding more incentives for PvP players to hit levelers would only result in great wailing and gnashing of teeth from the levelers. It would not inspire the anti-PvP crowd to try their hand at PvP.
As you can plainly see, neither of these situations would result in a positive outcome for the game so these additions should not be made now or at any time in the future.


#890217 PvP XP / XP through PvP

Posted by yotekiller on 19 September 2014 - 04:34

Mary, if I meant anything by this topic it was that I want to get more people to try PvP, what if levellers try this aspect (safe if you want ro call it) and then like PvP on tbe whole and get attached to it ?...........

How is this different than the "safe" PvP called GvG already available in game other than it has a different name with different rewards?  GvG is available for anyone that wants to try it and you can get rewards from it too.  Level ranges are much larger than ladder ranges and there is no XP loss involved.  If the levelers really want to try their hand at "safe" PvP so badly, why aren't they utilizing the game mechanics already available to them?  Perhaps we should just add new rewards to the current GvG system and not try to add some new system with the same intent and result.




#890071 PvP XP / XP through PvP

Posted by yotekiller on 18 September 2014 - 00:44

As a leveler...

 

I like idea # 1...The idea of a level of PvP sounds like a very cool idea. 

 

Prestige would still only gain from ladder but PvPXP would increase as well?

 

if i attack a creature a few level down my XP gain is cut way back.  Would it be the same for PvPXP?   If I as a 1900 lvl player 100 stams a 300 level player on the BB,  XP loss would be the same as now but my PvPXP gain would be next to nothing?

 

But how do you rank a level 300 who 100 stams a level 1900 player on the BB in stam gain setup and offline?  Level of difficulty is pretty low also?

 

 

ya I was talking BB...

 

Question:

What about the other way around... most upper level players stay in stam gain setups and are not hard targets on the BB when offline... I see low level PvP players bios posting wins on players in lvl 2000s... so I am sure they will think they should get more PvPXP... How would/ could that be controlled?  Level difference does not always define level of difficulty involved.

 

 

the other way around will give the same, if I attack a high level player I will still get the same PvP XP (100 for example)

 

 

Regarding your comment on "upper level players wearing stam gain set-ups", that's a choice. Whether it's a level 60 or a EOC player both have the option to wear stam gear or proper offline gear.  I don't think that should be a factor to worry about, if this idea was to be implemented. 

 

Going back to the OP, I like the first idea.  It seems fair to those who participate in PvP and to those who don't, since those who don't aren't forced to PvP. 

 

 

Definitely gives a reason for people bored at EOC to dabble in PVP with little to no consequence. On the rewards aspect, if the rewards aren't bound then you can possibly have friends/allies trading hits like the old GVG system. I know people like to make profit for their efforts but if the market can be manipulated right out the gate, then why bother?

 

Maybe have the PVP XP hits have 0 range restrictions. So level 60s can take on people at EOC in stam gear. If the rewards are bound anyway. I know one of the major buzz kills of GVG is the fact that it can be hard finding guilds with enough people in range of you, and I'm sure there are PVP ranges that have this same problem.

 

Perhaps the rewards can be those listed buffs that never made it into the game but are still on the AH search menus. :P Bound potions to get everyone interested in using them.

 

 

Thinking about it, yeah the new PvP items based on PvP level should be bound, or else guilds will just get enough of it and put it in guild store and it will be worthless, same for potions, about the range, not sure what you meant here, did you mean you want it to be an open range or closed one ? IMO open range will just help the high levels attack the low levels, sure low levels will attack people with stam gear at EOC but won't be a fair fight for both sides so the attack should be according to the normal PvP ranges

 

 

As long as high levels can't attack low levels then there shall be no benefit for high levels, even if all PvPers are on one big ladder, all I want HCS to keep in the current PvP system is normal attacks, which leaves us to ladder

There are 7 quotes discussing high levels attacking low levels and vice versa, including 3 from you.  Don't cop an attitude with me about reading the thread when you don't know what's contained in it, and you even started it and discussed that very thing.  You came up with some half-baked idea that you are hoping someone else will fill in the details on because you're a "big picture" kind of guy and can't be bothered with the small stuff. Guess what?  The devil is in the details.  The idea was garbage when you posted it and it's still garbage so don't be surprised that not everyone is falling all over themselves to further kill PvP.




#890062 PvP XP / XP through PvP

Posted by yotekiller on 17 September 2014 - 23:25

I have largely ignored this topic because honestly, I didn't think it had much merit and would die on it's own.  Imagine my surprise to see the support that has been shown here.  This idea is not well thought out to say the least and the continual stream of ideas thrown in on top of it has just made things worse.  Basically, what you want is a mix of PvP, GvG, Prestige and the old PvP rating system to form some kind of new system that has no meaning except a different number by your name.

 

 You want people across all levels to hit each other.  Super, I can wear an offline setup that low levels can't touch but there is nothing they can do to stop me from pounding them, even if they are on line.  Sounds like a great way to keep those new players in the game.

 

  You want to make PxP (rating) hits cost the hitter regular XP if they lose but the target would only lose PxP (rating) if they lose.  Then the hitter can be posted on the bounty board where the hitter will lose more regular XP from losses but the people clearing them will gain PxP (rating) for wins and lose nothing for a failed attack.  Sounds like everyone is a winner except the hitter.  Just exactly what the PvP haters have been asking for, no harm to the levelers and all the punishment you can muster on the PvP'ers.

 

  If someone has a 0 PxP rating and they lose a PxP attack, what happens to their rating?  Does it just stay at 0 for no harm, no foul?  That's called GvG and we already have that.  It even has rewards.  If their rating falls below 0, what consequences do they suffer?  If you get rewards for your high PxP rating then surely you should also suffer penalties for a low rating as well.  You mentioned PxP rating would transfer to regular XP.  That's called Prestige and we already have that.

 

  After all that, what is left of PvP?

 

  Given the comments already made in this thread I don't expect my post to be very popular but someone had to say it.  The current PvP system may not be perfect but this idea is far from the solution.




#889952 where did all the legendarys go ?

Posted by yotekiller on 17 September 2014 - 02:05

Zachorzi and Ursa should be regular events since they are part of quests




#889328 NEW MEDAL : Garbage Collector ( poll included for fun)

Posted by yotekiller on 12 September 2014 - 11:00

Pretty sure we already have this - it's called Fragmenter, the items are destroyed whether or not you compose with them.  Adding another medal for basically the same thing is rather pointless.






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