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BraveKath

Member Since 16 Oct 2012
Offline Last Active Jul 09 2016 06:56

#863167 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by rowbeth on 16 April 2014 - 07:27

Xp loss on the BB doesn't bother me. If people chose to PVP, then they chose to take on those forms of risk, and do it knowingly. If one aim is to increase the participation in PVP by non-PVPers, then the mechanism for getting on the BB might need to be thought through innovatively.

 

When people talk about PVP needing to carry risk, I'd add the question of risk for whom? The PVP system can carry risk for the initiator without needing to have risk for the victim. Or the system could carry different levels of risk: more for the initiator and less for the victim. (I have read posts from some PVPers on various forums where they said the risk when they PVP is part of the buzz they get from doing it. I have no idea of how representative they are of the PVP community in general, but the fact that they exist makes this question worth asking.)

 

As a leveler, what I want is the sense that I can control my risk - to the extent that if I get hit I can blame my own silly actions, or believe that I was very unlucky. Actually, under the early PVP system (2007-2008 ish) I had that. Even though PVPers in recent forums have kept citing that as a great time when PVP was a major part of the game, it was actually a time when I found it easy to play with virtually no involvement in PVP: I got hit by one person at level 16 (when I didn't even know that PVP existed), by one person at level 65 and then not again until around level 650 when the PVP rating system started to get reset regularly. So that was just 2 events in the 2.5 years it took me to reach level 650. The reason I could do that was mainly because the PVP rating gain depended on the difference between PVP ratings and those ratings never got reset. So I sat on a rating of 999, was careful where to put my gold, and never attracted the interest of PVPers.

 

I explain this at length to try to give some insight into where I - as a leveller - am coming from in this debate. I want both PVPers and levellers (and farmers, and scavengers...) to enjoy this game. I'd suggest (though pelase do correct me if I'm wrong, as I am inferring) that most PVPers enjoy risk - or at least enjoy the rewards more than they dislike the risk - while most levellers wish to control risk. If we wish to keep players in the game, then maybe the PVP system needs to create a bigger split in the levels of risk carried by initiator and victim in PVP.

 

 

As an aside - I wonder whether what people look back to as good about 2008 was largely just lots of people - lots of all types of players. I look back on 2008 as a low point on general PVP activity in the game (from my perspective it was, as I've explained above), whereas PVPers were seeing lots of PVP. But we had lots of people. The AH moved quickly with lots of volume and lots of turnover on cheap and expensive items; merchants had lots more activity; hunts had competition for getting the creatures on a given site; SEs would be found quite quickly by multiple wanderers... We have no idea whether the percentage of PVPers was greater, less, or the same back then. So we have no idea whether that system created more or less activity than the current one. What we do know is that when the old game was actually quite new, it attracted a lot more players of every persuasion. Distinguishing cause, effect and random correlation is a crucial part of learning from history; and not distinguishing between these is a common cause of repeating the mistakes of the past. I'd really endorse Kath's sentiment about trying to shape a future rather than return to the past - and to make that a future we will all enjoy.




#863142 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by sweetlou on 16 April 2014 - 04:18

As original as this idea sounds, unless you lose something that has value to you there is no risk nor conflict. This is the essence of the game! I do like how you used Prestige as a focal point to change things.




#862729 Next Global Event with Frag Stash rewards?

Posted by BigGrim on 14 April 2014 - 16:23

Well, the lions share of common frags seem to come more from the stashes dropped by the Beastie. The rewards will stick as they were, just a much smaller quantity. (About half).


#863113 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by gomezkilla on 16 April 2014 - 00:15

No restriction on buffs.  The VL is about allowing people to sell off their Prestige yet retain credit in the PvP standings of what they attained.

Tell me where the buffs confusion happened -- and the fault isn't yours, if I didn't communicate it clearly, then it's mine. :)

Ok. And the buffs thing was my brain not working. I read "no reason to restrict" and my brain told me "restrict".

 

First, I want to say that xp/gold loss shouldn't be removed from PvP at all, that includes regular PvP and the BB. It just doesn't sit right with me thinking that it should be removed. 

Secondly, I like the idea of putting more use into Prestige. Having a top 100 and a store for it is perfect!

 

This all reminds me of the old dominance medal. I believe it was "Being in top 100 in the dominance ladder for X hours" or something like that before the PvP ladder came along. And I, for one, would love to see that back in the game.

 

Nice ideas Brave.

 

Gomez.




#863075 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by rowbeth on 15 April 2014 - 19:35

I can't seem to quote on this forum at the moment.

 

Kath - I agree there would be no reason to restrict PVP-level skills to PVP buffs. Its an obvious focus, but wouldn't have to be exclusive.

 

Tobias: penalising naked players would be a bit rough on people who go offline wearing guild gear and then have it recalled. For all of that, I'm not sure I see the problem with people wearing no, or trivial, armour.




#862826 Development Roadmap (Updated 7th Mar 2014)

Posted by Brice on 14 April 2014 - 22:17

I see HCS has plans for updating the Arena in May,in which, that's great!! But please Cows if you have the time to look at my Forum on Arena suggestions I would be very grateful :) a lot of players Arena and non-Arena players have posted some great ideas and expressed there opinions to my suggestions also....The Arena has been a very important part of FS to me and others and look forward to your response on this matter :) thank you for your time


#862661 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by rowbeth on 14 April 2014 - 07:51

Interesting idea, and great to see someone really trying for the win-win.

 

From my perspective, one of the things that I have always disliked about PVP in this game is that one person's fun is gained by setting back another person's independent goals. Doing away with Xp loss does remove my major objection.

 

Personally, I don't mind too much about the gold loss. There is much that I can do to minimise that, so I retain at least a sense of control over my own destiny. I can no longer speak for the lower levels, though. When I was at the lower levels there was an active gold market in the AH, and I could hide my gold there until I had enough to buy FSP --- AND I could expect to make a profit in the process; but I suspect that gold market no longer exists. So, since retaining players at lower levels is vital, it may be the that removal of gold loss is just as important.

 

The idea of a prestige market is an interesting one, as a way of providing profit for PVP. Whether it appeals to PVPers is not for me to say, but I could see levelers wanting to buy prestige. Provided it was sustainable (i.e. could be paid for from proceeds of a hunt) I thought it worth spending FSP on buffs/potions that gave 1-2% more Xp from a hunt, so prestige would certainly  have entered my thinking.

 

Another idea to throw into this mix (no doubt suggested before) would be to add the idea PVP levels. After a certain amount of PVP success (measured by prestige gain within your system - or some other means) you gain PVP levels, and with that gain access to PVP-specific skills. Perhaps the offensive PVP buffs could be tied to these levels rather than to Xp-based levels. Defensive skills should remain available to the Xp-based levels, though maybe could be gained quicker from the PVP-levels. (Admittedly, mapping current abilities onto such a new structure in a sufficiently palatable way might prove impossible.) Again, if there were no Xp loss from PVP, then I for one would remove my objections to incentivising PVP in these sort of ways.




#862660 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by bloody18 on 14 April 2014 - 07:18

I appreciate Bravekaths passion for pvp ..and wanting it to be a more active part of the game :)  I dont think what I am about to say  is what you are aiming for Kath, correct me if I am wrong :) There is room for another  rewards system added to the game for " outsidethe ladder  pvp " OR if nothing else,  a compromise. 2 systems. One with more risk and reward than the other. Obviously people hate "RISK"  I believe this would encourage many many more to a PVP aspect to the game. Just as people hate "RISKING" gold in arena .. I suggested a practice type arena with low risk, low reward. Someone suggested a literal PVP arena in the past I believe. Even broke down a whole new system to the game ..something like your suggestion reminds me of that idea. :)




#862659 PvP: A Different Approach

Posted by Pardoux on 14 April 2014 - 07:16

I think you could have stumbled upon something here Kath - a viable solution, at least from a levellers perspective.

 

I do wonder how the pvp community (the good and the bad) will react to their taps/hits taking NO gold and NO xp tho - I suspect they may well not like it, but I'm willing to be corrected.

I, for one, like it ..




#862618 My suggestion on reviving the Arena

Posted by Brice on 14 April 2014 - 01:41

Great post BraveKath...not wacky at all :D


#862604 My suggestion on reviving the Arena

Posted by j3k on 14 April 2014 - 00:52

Who is going to pay entry fee to join as some guilds wont like to waste their guild gold. Have to have something like a guild arena bank or something

the guild gold wont be used to pay

BUT 

for paying it should be split   for the two players so if   2 people in the same guild want to go up against another guild and it cost 100k to get in both should pay 50k each




#862274 Guild FSP

Posted by Trinket on 12 April 2014 - 09:53

We have a Guild gold Bank and we have a place to put FSP for upgrades, but we do not have anywhere to store guild FSP in excess of this. If the person holding those FSP leaves, doesn't come back etc. those FSP are lost to the guild. Was just wondering what everybody else thought of this idea.




#862388 Guild FSP

Posted by Pardoux on 12 April 2014 - 21:35

We have a Guild gold Bank and we have a place to put FSP for upgrades, but we do not have anywhere to store guild FSP in excess of this. If the person holding those FSP leaves, doesn't come back etc. those FSP are lost to the guild. Was just wondering what everybody else thought of this idea.

 

When I first saw this thread title, I thought it was going to be another of those "why can't we withdraw fsp's from the upgrade fund" threads. Glad to see it's not - that idea has been done to death IMO.

 

As for another option to store FSP's, I don't think there's really a need for one - there already is one, called the Guild Founder. Yes, they COULD leave, and some WOULD pull (and have pulled) stunts like that, but IMO, before you pass over stuff to other players, there should be an element of trust earned.

 

It's not a bad idea, but I think that everything on the current roadmap needs implementing first :)




#862611 My suggestion on reviving the Arena

Posted by y0da on 14 April 2014 - 01:21

I understand why you would think that more moves would be better but trust me, the arena is already complicated enough as it is haha. More moves added wouldn't help make it any easier for newer players to try it out. 

 

There used to be a guide by Trackxyj (2nd in Arena wins, was first for a VERY long time) but for some reason when the cows started the new forum, his thread got lost in the process. I learned a lot from it even as a somewhat intermediate player. If I ever find the link to the google docs page, I'll be sure to post it in my bio. 

I actually feel that the opposite would be true volcom. By adding more arena moves it would make for a larger arrangement of combinations being used (assuming of coarse that the new moves were actually useful, unlike the poison and fire....). A larger arrangement of moves would mean that your moves can work specifically with a certain gear type rather than having a combat move set that can generically be used for several different gear sets. This would, in a sense, make it more likely for a novice to win an arena due to the increased variance of moves and gear customization, adding another level to the arena.

Nobody can blame "Epics" and "paying players" for arena wins, since the majority of epics are worse than the normal gear, and since legendary and crystalline items are at an all time low cost.. New moves could change the arena dynamics dramatically, unless of coarse you want to "dummy it down" by somehow making a player win by the roll of the dice. I feel that the customization of combat moves is what makes the arena stand apart from other "luck" based games... A good analogy would be slots vs. poker, whereas slots is 100% luck and poker is a combination of luck AND skill. This diversity is what keeps many of us interested in playing the arena and if it was any less diverse, I would not be playing the arena at all.

Currently, if you are using an attack/armor gear set then you are hoping your opponent is using a defensive gear set and you are also "hoping" that your opponent is not using an armor/damage set....etc.etc.etc.

What we need is a diversification of the combat moves so that it isn't so cut and dry, thereby reducing that "hope" (which is really just luck) of not being matched up with a certain player in a certain arena, and having it be more about having a good combination of combat moves, using moves that will enhance your specific gear type.

In reality, anybody could win any arena with a little luck (I've seen it happen when low level players enter an arena a couple hundred levels higher, and still win based on the above mentioned "hope"), or the classic deflect move that always seems to activate at just the right time, except when I am using it :).

I hope this makes sense.




#862098 My suggestion on reviving the Arena

Posted by Dulcharn on 11 April 2014 - 20:42

1) Splendid idea of earning character upgrades with arena wins. The exchange rate of wins/ upgrades can be ironed out.

2) I think bracketing the arena has already happened. i.e. novice area. Further bracketing will put the nail in the coffin of an already encumbered arena.

3) An arena event/ championship tournament is an exciting idea!

4) Include the arena token idea made by shindrak for further improving the arena.

 

I'll see to it that the lubricant is included with the barrels next time.






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