Tastria

I'm not getting into the brackets, or what-ever-you-want-to-call-it.

I'd like to point out, as has been mentioned else where, that the arena is basically fair (knowing how to choose your moves excepted)  The novice arena used to be where you got all your 45 moves, and the main arena would also let you get  moves at times.  Presumably so that those who didn't have any gear access other than what they were wearing could pick up moves without having to assemble a 5-100 set.

      Of course all that's changed now.

     What hasn't changed is how to use your moves.  BraveKath pointed out that there were in the good ole days, folk who would help the new comers out, by suggesting things they could do. (Sounds suspiciously like our defunct Mentor program doesn't it? )

     I have been helped by a 700+ arena winner who has graciously given me hints, and even the, "What the hey!  Why don't you try it and see what happens!)  Aside from being able to earn my moves (as opposed to buying them)  I didn't want any special treatment, half the fun of the arena is learning how it works, with the only loss a bit of gold, my tuition if you will.  

     Keep in mind that there are already advantages for those who play the 1-99 levels, making it "easier" to score a win, even against one of the Arena Champions (a few of them do go slumming down there  )

     I will make one comment about the current system.  It's much more expensive to play then it was last week at this time, if everyone wants to keep newcomers coming (and staying) this is a consideration too.

LF and BM 85 imo 

would be hard for new players to get to  85 let alone 100

so 85 IMO

As things stand now, yes it would.  And why would we want to make it exceptionally easy? (or any kind of easy for that matter)

Give me a minute to set the stage for my reasoning.

First of all, Fallen Sword "IS" a game.  One that attracts a specific type of persons.  I don't think I'm going to get any argument on this point.

     FS involves growing your character in whatever direction you choose.  No one is going to object if you become a leveler, a merchant, PvPer, and the list goes on of course.  Quite a few directions to choose from, and if you make combinations, you have even more.

     Now we get to my reasoning.  The Arena "IS" an aspect of the game.  If we choose to make it "easy", and I know the word is loaded from a semantic standpoint, to acquire  "high level" rewards, ie. potions, then we should extend the logic to leveling, PvPing and the like.  It makes a slippery slope at best.

From my viewpoint, the game has gotten progressively easier over the  five years I've played.  And as a solo player for the first four years, I can speak with some experience. 

By all means, fine tune the prices.  But keep the objectives a challenge, realizing that this is Fallen Sword, not Candy Land.

Good to see you on board Grim   My observation is that why wasn't the random match done initially?  It would seem that that might have limited the feeding frenzy that the initial changes caused, as well as curing one of the major complaints.  Of course hindsight is always 20/20

    Ahhhhh!  The GvG debate arises!

     Yep, it's real frustrating to be an a guild with limited targets.  You feel like you have bulls eye on your back.  But of course new members to the guild might not solve it.as the new members would have to be able to hit others in their range in the attacking guild.  I've watched while the under level 100's in my guild got pounded, and all I could do was try to give a few defensive buffs. to maybe make it a bit harder.  There wasn't a soul in the attacking guild that I could hit...that was active, that is. When there was however, I would get buffed up (this was before the buff market, we haven't gotten attacked since then) and hit back even if I had just one target. It was time consuming, but I could usually pull off a draw, which made it financially unprofitable for the other guild.  This takes a lot of time, and a bunch of gold, but it CAN be done, especially now that there is the buff market.  It also takes a bunch of stamina to gvg single swordly.  Again though, it is doable.   And it brings in points to the guild too.

  Until/if the GvG rules are changed, this is about the best you can do.

Speaking of changes, has anyone seen Grim around?

I am now going to wax obnoxious:

     The game is already free to play.  And you want more (expletive deleted) free stuff?

      And yes, I pray to the gods.  So far I've been found worthy to be given 20 FSP, and a potion of enchant rune.

I've also discovered the pitfalls of leveling rapidly.......I don't have a thing to wear

Looking forward to the December 2X already!

(raises his cane and shakes it at volcom)  You are a rude impertinent boy, but you apologize like a man.  For my part I forgive you.  It's not like the rest of us haven't put our foot in our mouths on occasion  and had to eat "sole food"

    For my part I like the "old school" version.  It makes it much easier to police, and it also might save a pile of cummulative stamina.  It also might drag some of the obsolete gear out of the guild stores, as there are a few pieces out there with interesting stats when you use them without buffs.

"...but t'was a famous victory!"  

     At the very least Brice, you've gotten folk talking 

No....

 

Currently I am content with the level 50 cap regarding GvGs. It's not good to prevent anyone from trying anything out, nor is it fair to limit anyone and say " hey you can't do that cause you haven't played as long as I have. " The overall goal is to make things fun and entertaining for people. We want them to explore and try new things out not limit them. The only reason for the level 50 cap is to make sure no one is discouraged between starting the game and learning how things go.

 

However that said there are always more things we can do. I would like to see Quest's related to PvP, I'd like to see SE's - LE's that require a PvP rating of XXX or you can't kill it. Little things to inspire and encourage PvP within levels and ranges. Perhaps the creation of a PvP test Dummy players can summon / buff and practice on as well ... Something where more guides and tutorials are shared and put out so players are aware of what PvP is and how to properly defend them selves online or offline. All of the above are positives for players and the game. Years ago Xp was a huge issue but now with global events - donation offers, composing, etc.... Many people are open to the mind of losing a little xp and are understanding it's fun and just like gold on hand or a level it may be lost but can also be easily re-gained, and if players enjoy all the above and can accomplish things in between it's a win win for the player, the community and the game.

 

- Chazz

Hmmmmmm...  Well, I don't really agree with you on all of that Chazz, but then that's what the Forums for.

      It IS an interesting concept incorporating PvP into the quest/event structure.  I'm reminded of the Giggles quest back at the start. (level 19) I couldn't complete it because I couldn't form a group. (no guild)  About level 200 (still no guild) I went back and did Giggles in by my onesy.  I "still" didn't get credit for it because I didn't form a group. (It's still on my unstarted list)

       Now we move up to the Forest of Yule.  To finish the quest you had to kill the Krumpers (Titan)  As it started out, you had to have the majority of the kills on the titan to finish.  That was changed to one kill luckily.  So we have two (that I know of) at my level, that involve the guild/titan killing participation.

      As far as your reasoning on xp loss (or possible loss) and a PvP kill list, I guess I'm in the minority, 'cause I DO NOT want to lose any.  My style of play reflects that belief, and I'm not going to pound on someone else for the sake of a quest.  I can also see possible manipulation of the system on such quests too.  It's a novel idea I agree.

    I may be a bit dense, but I don't understand what global events and xp have in common.   I'm guessing that by donations, you probably mean earning shards, and while I've gotten a ton of FSP doing that (I really liked the 30 minute video of how to field dress an elk for 10 shards)  those aren't offered universally, and a lot of players, myself included, don't have the resources to donate to the game on any sort of a helpful FSP Gain basis.

    The game DOES need better tutorials tho. And an easier way of finding them, other than lucking out with a search for a particular work in Wiki.  I know that several guilds have excellent brief guides to GvG, and a link or two could do wonders.  I don't doubt there are some good PvP guides out there too, but since I've never gone for stabbing folk in the back when they're off line, I don't know where to find them.

    On another note, one way to help keep the newbies in the game is to help them out by buffing, etc.  A Treasure Hunter and Adapt Learner,  doesn't' necessarily mean much to those of us in this forum, but to someone who is just starting it can make a huge difference.  I want to thank right now someone out there who sent me an enchanted pickaxe at the start of the game.  Best Damn weapon I ever had, as it showed that the other players in the game were willing to help.  So to the unknown warrior who aided me, Many Thanks   I probably wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for you.

My view, after more consideration, is that the Cows have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath.  "First of all, do no harm."  This is their cash cow, and they want to milk it as long as they can. (two bad puns, but they're applicable)

     Let me play devils advocate for a moment, AND stay on topic.  This update may not be a cure all, but it certainly is a step in the right direction.  At the very least it gives new players breathing room.  (stops the hemorrhaging as it were)  Is there more to do?  Certainly, but this at least is a step forward, and if it needs to be fine tuned later it can be.

     We've been promised that PvP will be looked at, some of that will have to spill over into GvG, so there should be additional improvements coming.

     I'm quitting now, my head hurts from being philosophical   

I'll be unpopular,  and state that it's about as useful as thing-a-ma-jigs on a bull.  It's bells and whistles.  When this was announced being in the works, I  was wondering what the problem was that needed fixing.  I will go so far as to say that it looks like a decent bit of programing, giving people who make mistakes, an extra thirty characters or so to catch them.

Don't get me started     A lot of sliminess all over!  I look at the Ladder periodically thinking oh maybe I'll do it now and then once again just see it littered with squatters who cry foul if you want to actually PLAY.  I rather not play at all than be bothered with that mentality.

Agree with you with you guys ladder levels can expand, but useless to do unless changes actually do take place.  Under the current system it will remain broken and a sham, as nothing to kick people into actually PLAYING the ladder.

Good luck DP! 

     I think PvP was, and I stress the "was", a good idea.....once.  The problem started occurring when some people found out how to manipulate it.  I have a top 50 list of the "old" PvP ladder from a few years ago (I even made 50 on it!)  Now looking at it, you're lucky to have even 5 participants, and it's always the same people.

    Now, since I don't participate, 'cause at this time it's like participating in a game of Russian Roulette, I don't know how to fix it.  However it's done, it must mesh with the arena in some fashion, as both are based on PvP.

     From my limited viewpoint, part of the problem is the rewards system, which as Deadparrot commented, have become dated, and have flooded the market.

     My gut feeling is that PvP (and other game aspects) have gotten "dumbed down"  There is very little work involved in any of the early parts of the game, all of which is (I think) supposed to gather in new players.  A comparison would be starting out playing Monopoly with unlimited cash.

     Saying all that, I like BraveKaths comment on jousting..  Is it/would it be possible of possible to incorporate some of the classic Arthuresque forms of combat into the ladder?  (anything else is just stab 'em in the back while they're sleeping)  And for Gawds sake, get rid of bonting from ladder hits   It's like running to the teacher because you lost playing dodge ball! 

    So that, I guess, is my suggestion, get a bit of chivalry into PvP.  I don't know if I'd ever be fond of it outside the arena, but I would be much more likely to try it in some other incarnation than it is now. 

I like it in theory.  So I'll go along with a thumbs up.  It's going to need some fine tuning, but that isn't all that unusual.  The thing that is going to be the problem is guilds with only one or two "active" (and I use the term loosely) players.  And yes, I resemble that remark!

Don't know what i would have done without them.  On many occasions you've saved me incredible amounts of stamina

Many, many thanks!!

Good move synopsis!  The only suggestion I have here, is that one should print this out, and have it right in front of them as they are allotting moves.

      This also allows folk to see what might be the most advantageous moves to have, and for new comers, to join contests where these are the rewards.

     It also should be noted that basic attack has it's place too, and just because you have to use it, does not mean that it won't hold up, or at least give some damage, against  other attacks.

    You can also join where combat moves aren't allowed, then it's gear against gear.

    "It's all connected you know."